I'm sure many of you know about the backwards message in Stairway to heaven. At first I thought it seemed to be done accidently, however th emore I listen to it the freakier it gets. I'm almost convinced that the myths are true.

I am not a Satanist, or even religious, but this elaborate backwards message seems a little too perfect.

If you know the backround of Led Zeppelin (Page's relationship with the occult), then this is even more shocking. There is also a reference to a toolshed in the backwards message, also relating to Jimmy Page and the Occult. Some of the lines in the song, such as "our shadows taller than our soul", may referr to the band members seeing their legacy as more important then their souls. This may seem farfetched ands I may seem crazy to you, but I can't help it, I'm obsessed.

here is a link to the backward message- http://www2.memlane.com/jmilner/stairwaybackwards.htm - http:\\www2.memlane.com/jmilner/stairwaybackwards.htm

The toolshed part is IMO pretty inaudible, it could be interpreted many other ways.

Also, making a verse like that would be pretty difficult without knowing how to talk backwards like that one actor guy who could. It's kind of contradictory as to how the lyrics Stairway to Heaven were supposedly written in one night.

That's the extraordinary thing, the song makes sense both ways, "sometimes words have two meanings". I find the toolshed part pretty clear though, and if you play around with the song yourself, it's not that easy to get Satan. Whenever he says "There", thta along with the other surrounding wors make Satan, somehow. It's very strange.

I asked someone to listen to it without reading the lyrics, and they recognized the Lyrics largely.

I don't really care if it's meant to be there or not. I'm just happy getting the creeps from it.

If Page did sell his soul, I think he ultimately got a bad deal.

backwards messages reference:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1130 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1130

This is just complete rubbish. If you play the theme tune from "Postman Pat" backwards I can guarantee that will sound pretty spooky too. Grow up!

Ask any scientist, the odds of a person singing something backwards and forward is astronomical. The fact that the messages are satanic are even more remote.

It's impossible for humans to write these kinds of things.

Rob there are a few others if your interested.

Michael

DallasBryan wrote: easily done with digital processing. dont go into the REDRUM!!! where The Shining meets Pulp Fiction. see Queen - Flick of the Wrist, Fight From the Inside, lyrics for details.

Lets see you do it if its so easy. Ever hear Zep say "natas" in a song- no.

I would love to see you sing something that makes sense forwards and backwards. And if you are so smart and its so easy, top Zeppelin and make the forward something anti- biblical like  "there still time to change the road your on"

I'll be waitng for this easy task to be done.

Michael

mikedevilsfan wrote: DallasBryan wrote: easily done with digital processing. dont go into the REDRUM!!! where The Shining meets Pulp Fiction. see Queen - Flick of the Wrist, Fight From the Inside, lyrics for details. Lets see you do it if its so easy. Ever hear Zep say "natas" in a song- no. I would love to see you sing something that makes sense forwards and backwards. And if you are so smart and its so easy, top Zeppelin and make the forward something anti- biblical like  "there still time to change the road your on" I'll be waitng for this easy task to be done. Michael

MDF----- Way to go!

Reed Lover wrote: mikedevilsfan wrote: DallasBryan wrote: easily done with digital processing. dont go into the REDRUM!!! where The Shining meets Pulp Fiction. see Queen - Flick of the Wrist, Fight From the Inside, lyrics for details. Lets see you do it if its so easy. Ever hear Zep say "natas" in a song- no. I would love to see you sing something that makes sense forwards and backwards. And if you are so smart and its so easy, top Zeppelin and make the forward something anti- biblical like  "there still time to change the road your on" I'll be waitng for this easy task to be done. Michael MDF----- Way to go!

Thanks RL. 

Listen, I respect the fact that some people don't believe in anything spiritual, or evil or holy etc. That is their perogotive. But simply shrugging of something that is quite extroidanary in nature and nearly imposible to do is another thing all together.

And yes I am a Christian for tose who wonder. I can't prove anything about my faith. I am glad that tradiational prog has many ties to  Christianity though. I will be intersted to hear some intentional backwards masking.

Oh an by the way- Zeppelin used analog not digital computers.

Nor did Queen anothor one bites the dust/decide to smoke marajiuana.

Michael

DallasBryan wrote: easily done with digital processing.

Digital processing didn't exist in the 70's. Recordings were done on analog tape.

There are organizations, which teach you to speak backwards, and at th same time appear to be making sense. There have also been studies saying that listtening to backward messages have an effect on your mind, and it is apparently possible, because it is rather clear in Stairway to heaven.

Rob The Plant wrote: There are organizations, which teach you to speak backwards, and at th same time appear to be making sense. There have also been studies saying that listtening to backward messages have an effect on your mind, and it is apparently possible, because it is rather clear in Stairway to heaven.

I would like to say two things here

Bull sh*t

Or is that one?

I'll second that!

Come on, now. It would take years of dedication just to speak backwards with any intelligibility. Micheal J. Anderson had to attend a school just to learn to speak his dozen or so lines as the 'man from another place' (or, more familiarly, the 'dancing midget') in "Twin Peaks", and the results are barely satisfactory...they still had to include subtitles. And they were only barely understandable words in one direction, not both!

And does anyone really have any concern or fear of occult power? The only thing that Satanism or Black Magic has ever been responsible for is making people act like fools...and that doesn't require any demonic dark power. I'm as big a fan of spookiness as anyone, but whatever mysterious forces exist out there are not making themselves known via a blues-rock band.

James Lee wrote: I'll second that! Come on, now. It would take years of dedication just to speak backwards with any intelligibility. Micheal J. Anderson had to attend a school just to learn to speak his dozen or so lines as the 'man from another place' (or, more familiarly, the 'dancing midget') in "Twin Peaks", and the results are barely satisfactory...they still had to include subtitles. And they were only barely understandable words in one direction, not both! And does anyone really have any concern or fear of occult power? The only thing that Satanism or Black Magic has ever been responsible for is making people act like fools...and that doesn't require any demonic dark power. I'm as big a fan of spookiness as anyone, but whatever mysterious forces exist out there are not making themselves known via a blues-rock band.

well said

[QUOTE=goose]Led Zeppelin don't try and make that much sense with the words forwards, so I hardly see them putting in the effort of writing something backwards!

PS I'm fairly certain no two people would be able to hear exactly the same message when it was played backwards.

Ok then why don't we all listen and write down what we heard and compare notes?

PPS why does it matter? I doubt our subconcious is going to pick up messages backwards and influence our actions.

Why does it matter? I don't know why does chemistry matter?

PPPS I'm fairly sure at least some of those samples have been edited at least slightly (not the Stairway one, but I've heard similar things on other sites where the message sounds much less clear). The last two I'll believe, because they're not meant to say anything forwards and they're pretty blatant too.)

Not edited when I did it on my own with a record and with the computer.

But then again maybe I am a liar right?

Michael

Rob The Plant wrote: I've also read some sort of Evangelicist thing, saying that Stairway to heaven is a pro God song, and the backwards message is a warning against Satan.

Starway to heaven, frontwards is not even close to being in line with biblical teachings. There is no piper calling you to Christ, period.

And bye the way Rob your assesment of people teaching others to write and talk backwards are accurate. One of the biggest proponents of this idea was A. Crowley to whom plant is a devotee. He lives in his house.

I don't think the messages are intentional though. Why anyone would say "my sweet satan" font or backwards is beyond me.

Michael

Dismissing this extraordinary, accurate backwards message as nothing seems wrong to me, and I'm glad I have some support for that, but the bottom line is that it's a great song. Maybe the message is intentional but only created out of interest i the supernatural, and not because of some sort of Satanic beliefs held by Rob Plant. Still what gets me is the toolshed reference. Damn thought provoking song though.

mikedevilsfan wrote:   And bye the way Rob your assesment of people teaching others to write and talk backwards are accurate. One of the biggest proponents of this idea was A. Crowley to whom plant is a devotee. He lives in his house. Michael

I thought Page lived in Crowley's house.

Reed Lover wrote: mikedevilsfan wrote:   And bye the way Rob your assesment of people teaching others to write and talk backwards are accurate. One of the biggest proponents of this idea was A. Crowley to whom plant is a devotee. He lives in his house. Michael I thought Page lived in Crowley's house.

Your rite is Page, I mis-spoke.

Page also owns an occult bookstore.

Michael

[QUOTE=DallasBryan]devils buddy
" I'll be waiting for you to come up with anything that
makes sense frontwards and backwards"

I'll be waiting for you to let me out of these chains
before you cast me into that eternal fire"
High on a hill in Eldorado!

guess we were just talking about backward masking
used in the industry and where it appeared.

guess you saw it as a fowards backwards issue,
which way are you going?

neutral?

You don't make any sense, no offense.

You said that it was an easy task with modern equipment to make something make sense forward and backwards. All I said is that if it is so easy then do it.

Michael (New Jersey Devils fan)

Reed Lover wrote: mikedevilsfan wrote:   And bye the way Rob your assesment of people teaching others to write and talk backwards are accurate. One of the biggest proponents of this idea was A. Crowley to whom plant is a devotee. He lives in his house. Michael I thought Page lived in Crowley's house.

Page sold Crowley's Loch Ness house years ago, unless you are talking about another one I dont know about.  Also, I dont think Plant was into any of that stuff.  For Page it was an intensely personal thing that he rarely shared or foisted on others - some 'imaginative' biographers thought this was why Page remained untarnished throughout the 1970s while the band and its entourage were showered with misfortune ( with the notable exception of JP Jones who rarely partook in any of the band's rampages).

Looking forward to Page's autobiog, (which he's apparently writing at the moment), for a little clarification.  He claims he's going to "set a few things straight...". 

Lets face it, it would be no surprise if it turned out Zeppelin had contrived the reverse satanic passage, given their reputation for 'hell-raising'.  No doubt the CIA had a file on them (as they did with other unruly agitators such as Hendrix), and probably ensured the 'myth' got out and spread.  What would be freaky and certainly interesting is if Page knew about the lyrics, but Plant didn't!!!  Remember once producer Jimmy hit the mixing desk, nobody was allowed in...

All:

I'm going to move this thread to "discussions not related to music," although it is tangentially related to music.

In the meantime, let's not forget that, long before Zeppelin et al, The Beatles played around with backward messages.  One of the "clearest" is John's seemingly nonsensical "mzzzmzzzmmzzmm" in between Piggies and Blackbird on the White Album.  If played backward, it most definitely says "Paul is dead, miss him, miss him, miss him."  I have actually heard the clip played in a recording studio, using high-tech equipment, and there is no question whatsoever that that is what is being said.  However, it should be noted that it has no meaning at all when played correctly; it's simply noises.

There are also at least half a dozen hidden backward messages in Revolution 9.  However, as with the one noted above, most if not all of these only "work" because what is being played "forward" makes little if any sense.

For something to have clear meaning in the "forward" direction and clear - or even nearly clear - meaning in reverse, it would, as some point out, take an enormous amount of "fritching" in the studio.  As someone else pointed out, the labor it would take to make something work in both direction clearly, would be a monumental task.

Still, I must admit that, if the second clip is in fact a non-fritched version of the original clip, it is quite spooky...

Peace.

Tangerine Dream - Force Majuere uses backmasking.

LOL....Force Majeure is instrumental. Are you thinking of Cyclone? Even so, there's no such thing on it.

Also I have heard one from Rush during a live (that's right a live) production. The song was Anthem, which is based on Ann Rands work and forwards is pretty much the esccence of what satanism is all about. Guess what books Anton LeVay based the Satanic Bible- Ann Rand and "Might is Right."  Coincendence? you be the judge.

Anton LaVey (as it's correctly spelled) was a complete fraud of a human being. If you do a little research on him (not his so-called "religion," I mean him), you'll know that he plagariazed chunks of text from Might Is Right and Ayn Rand's Anthem because he was under deadline pressure to deliver his book to the publisher -- at the time, the publisher wanted to cash in on the "occult" craze sweeping metropolitan areas of the country, namely San Franciso, Los Angeles and New York. That's all it was about. Money. Yes, it's true about Sammy Davis, Jr. -- he was invited to join the so-called Church Of Satan, and did (eventually) return the paperwork and was given an honorary membership. But I chalk up activity such as this due to fads and liberal widespread use of drugs and alcohol, and boredom.

Oh: Rush never employed backwards-masking. Geddy, Neil and Alex were never into the occult. If anything, they're agnostics and atheists. You can't be really be one and claim belief in the supernatural. And it's well-documented that LaVey was a real jerk of a guy, who inflicted violence on people and animals alike. Apparently he was trying to compensate for something. Members of his family, notably his oldest daughter, denounced him and exposed him (he was never wealthy and lived a lot on handouts in his latter years).

Here is the source you are quoting:

REALITY: The Satanic Bible was conceived as a commercial vehicle by paperback publisher Avon Books. Avon approached ASL for some kind of Satanic work to cash in on the Satanism & witchcraft fad of the late 1960s. Pressed for material to meet Avon's deadline, ASL resorted to plagiarism, assembling extracts from an obscure 1896 tract - Might is Right by Ragnar Redbeard into a "Book of Satan" for the SB, and claiming its authorship by himself. [Ironically these MiR passages are the ones most frequently quoted by ASL disciples.] Another third of the SB consists of John Dee's "Enochian Keys", taken directly but again without attribution from Aleister Crowley's Equinox. The SB's "Nine Satanic Statements", one of the Church of Satan's central doctrines, is a paraphrase, again unacknowledged, of passages from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged.- quotes from his daughter Zeena.

If you are going slam me for spelling at least give your own thoughts on the matter and don't plagiarize.

Oh: Rush never employed backwards-masking.

No one employs the kind of back masking were talking about. It's impossible, thats my point.

 Geddy, Neil and Alex were never into the occult. If anything, they're agnostics and atheists. You can't be really be one and claim belief in the supernatural.

Whether you claim to be on or not really isn't the issue. But the thoughts of Peart in particular are very self natured, and preditory,(at least some of it is) which is in line with what LaVey wrote and believed. Many members are involved in the Libertarian party as is Peart (though I don't think that makes you a Satanist).

And it's well-documented that LaVey was a real jerk of a guy, who inflicted violence on people and animals alike. Apparently he was trying to compensate for something. Members of his family, notably his oldest daughter, denounced him and exposed him (he was never wealthy and lived a lot on handouts in his latter years).

I'll buy that. Important to note though that his daughter moved to another Church of Satan (temple of Set) so in my book she is suspect as well.

Michael

If you are going slam me for spelling at least give your own thoughts on the matter and don't plagiarize.

There is no need for you to take it personally. I wasn't "slamming" you. It's just that the surname Levay is much more common than LaVey, hence the common (unintentional) misspelling. It's not just you. And was I really plagiarizing? I typed that entire paragraph from memory -- I didn't open a second window with IE or anything.

Whether you claim to be on or not really isn't the issue. But the thoughts of Peart in particular are very self natured, and preditory,(at least some of it is) which is in line with what LaVey wrote and believed. Many members are involved in the Libertarian party as is Peart (though I don't think that makes you a Satanist).

The lyrics that Peart initially wrote for Rush were edgier, in line with the rebellious nature of a young man bitter from a (failed) endeavor to make it on his own (which he tried to do, in London, before returning to Canada and taking a position in his father's business). At the time, Rush had gotten some exposure thanks to "Working Man," but the band wasn't in it yet for the long run. It would take the success of 2112 to truly cement the boys' future in music. If 2112  hadn't gone gold, Rush would've been dropped from the label. So things were still somewhat iffy for the band, and Neil. They weren't stars -- yet!

I'll buy that. Important to note though that his daughter moved to another Church of Satan (temple of Set) so in my book she is suspect as well.

I didn't say she became a Christian. She simply turned on her pop because she got sick & tired of the ol' bastard.

[QUOTE=Rob The Plant]I've been playing around with this for days. I lack sleep and my internal clock is so messed up it feels like it's 2:00 in the afternoon, but it's 5:00am! I wish I could figure this out and go back to sleep. Everything is scaring me! I jsut sung the song myself and reversed it, and it came out clear, so that seems to back up the idea that it may be somewhat of a concrete intentional message.

I've listened to the song several times today, watched it sung on DVD, and everytime I just get more frustrated and frightened. One thing I have decided is that we have to look at more than jsut the message, but the meaning of the entire song, however there are many possibilities. There are  a lot of references to it being important to be immortalized, as opposed to continuing life. "Our Shadows taller than our souls"/ "to be a rock and not to roll". These stick out in my mind.

The Lyrics to this song are th eonly ones appearing in any Zeppelin albums, so they are obviously seen as important. maybe this helps, I'm sorry if I don't make any sense, which I probably don't, but I can't think anymore. Oh, and Merry Christmas.
Rob,

No your not crazy at all, and there is something to this. Most people dismiss backmasking as either a trick, or coincedence or a gimmick. This ignores any logical conclusions because its practically impossible for a human to do this.

As to your question about the lyrics, I can give you some info on the intended forward meaning from a Biblical perspective. I am not a theologian, but have studied the Bible quite a bit. I am a literary scholar (trying to be anyway) and am pursuing my PhD at them moment.

Probably the most imporatant statement in the song is "there is still time to change the road your on." which of course is not a biblical concept, espescially when you consider the phrase

Yes there are two paths you can go by
but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on

This is a kind of hedionistic concept that is about as anti- Biblical as anything you will ever find. I personaly have had 4 friends die at age 17, 18, 24 and 30. And non of them had time to change their "path."

What is so amazing to me about this backwards masking is that their is a frontwards dialog that is answered by a backwards reply. For example "ohh it makes me wonder" becomes "there's no escaping it."

this was taken from the site:

http://www2.memlane.com/jmilner/2004_06_01_archive.htm#108696941534216362 - http://www2.memlane.com/jmilner/2004_06_01_archive.htm#10869 6941534216362

What is written is not excactly what I heard to the right is waht I have always thought was said, but both are similar.

So here's to my Sweet Satan. ---- same
The other's little path        No other made a path
Would make me sad,        For it makes me sad
Whose power is faith.      Whose power is satan.
He'll give those with him 666.     all I heard was the 666
And all the evil fools,      I never heard any of the other 3 lines.
they know he made
us suffer sadly.

THis is an intersting interpretation though.

Another one bites the dust is another example. The chorus says  either
"its fun to smoke marijuana or start to smoke marajuana" i personally heard "start"

This stuff makes you think....

Michael

Yes, it makes me think that you are stupid.

Why is it that a miraculous but malevolent entity can insinuate itsself into Led Zep songs but cant even come up with a coherent sentence?

For crying out loud!

Read this:

So here's to my sweet Satan, no other made a path.For it makes me sad, whose power is satan.666.

So this sophisticated entity came up with that crap. To what end?

To confuse and scare idiots like MDF and Rob The Plant (Wood and vegetable-kind of figures!)

Grow up!

Yes, it makes me think that you are stupid.

Why is it that a miraculous but malevolent entity can insinuate itsself into Led Zep songs but cant even come up with a coherent sentence?

For crying out loud!

Read this:

So here's to my sweet Satan, no other made a path.For it makes me sad, whose power is satan.666.

So this sophisticated entity came up with that crap. To what end?

To confuse and scare idiots like MDF and Rob The Plant (Wood and vegetable-kind of figures!)

Grow up!

This is not my invention reed. Musicologists and many others have studied this phenomenon. But since your dishing out insults, what kind of education do you have genius?

Michael

Rob The Plant wrote: seriously Reed Lover. Pretty quick to judge man. I don't see how you can simply dismiss all this evidence as nothing. You may disagree, but it's certainly quite a coincidence to have such an elaborate message work, and in the most abstract part of the song, perhaps a necessary adjustment?

Quick to judge?

Do you think you are the first person to discover this "phenomena"?
We are not talking recent news, you know.Try 20 odd years and counting!

Change your nom-de-plume to Rob The Plank?

This is not my invention reed. Musicologists and many others have studied this phenomenon. But since your dishing out insults, what kind of education do you have genius?

Michael

Well a basic education should give you the tools you need MDF.
I took my degree in American Literature.
Unfortunately we didnt cover fairy stories!
I am not suggesting that you are stupid for investigating this phenomena.You are stupid for giving it credence.IMHO

Maybe RL was a bit undiplomatic in his phrasing (LOL) but he's almost certainly correct. There is no cover-up, there is no occult or Satanic conspiracy, and while this subject is fodder for a bit of causal fun, no serious study of the phenomena is worthwhile (or being undertaken by anyone worth taking seriously).

The most likely effect of these backwards messages is to cause unfounded speculation- like this thread- not insinuate themselves into any unsuspecting listeners' subconscious. It seems to me that the mental health of the people who claim to be aware of this phenomena is more in question than that of anyone subjected to the 'hidden messages'.

very well hidden I must say. Must be something very occult

uoy gnihctaw si natas

This photograph is not hoaxed.

Ok so let me get this right:

I'm stupid, or foolish for believing that there is something to the fact that a person who is heavily into the occult had some of that spill in to his music life.

But, Jimmy Page is not foolish for believing in what Alister Crowley espoused? What about Neal Morse who left Spock’s Beard because God told him too (he's also a born again Christian). What about Rick Wakeman is he crazy for believing in Jesus? What about Jon Andersons beliefs? He is a devotee of the "Divine Mother" does that make him stupid? How about Echolyn and Glass Hammer, they are Christians who believe in demons. Are they also stupid?

I suspect that you don't believe that your heroes are stupid and that's hypocritical. If you disagree, then disagree, but you don't need to dismiss me and call me stupid for my beliefs.

Michael

First I believed that the Eastern-Bunny hid the eggs in the garden.

Then I found out it was my Father.

Then I believed in santa claus

Then I found out it was my father.

Then I believed in God.

And now I think it might be my Father.

Yep, they're all foolish.

There's a difference between believing in a deity and believing that they talk directly to you. A lot of the speculation on this thread has sounded more like the latter. Of course Zeppelin has had occult influences! They were also influenced by Robert Johnson, but nobody's claiming that you can feel the supernatural power of the King of the Delta Blues if you play "The Lemon Song" backwards.

tuxon wrote: First I believed that the Eastern-Bunny hid the eggs in the garden. Then I found out it was my Father. Then I believed in santa claus Then I found out it was my father. Then I believed in God. And now I think it might be my Father.

In a manner of speaking.

Michael 

James Lee wrote: Yep, they're all foolish. There's a difference between believing in a deity and believing that they talk directly to you. A lot of the speculation on this thread has sounded more like the latter. Of course Zeppelin has had occult influences! They were also influenced by Robert Johnson, but nobody's claiming that you can feel the supernatural power of the King of the Delta Blues if you play "The Lemon Song" backwards.

James that’s borderline retarded my friend.  If you can make the leap of the possibility of a deity, why can you go an extra inch and believe that the deity talks to people? That’s like saying, “You can believe in libraries, but believing that there are books inside is another thing all together.”

Robert Johnson believed in the Devils enough to sell him his soul. Is the “King of Blues” also stupid? I am starting to get the picture hear: ¾ of the world are stupid, and the three pinheads on this board are not. Gotcha.

My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a
happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or
her as far away from a church as you can.

Frank Zappa another pinhead 

Dead Jester wrote: My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can. Frank Zappa another pinhead

Considering that he named his beautiful baby daughter "moon unit" you be the judge.

Michael

Ok so some sign in the middle of nowhere speaks for the entire Church of Christ, that's intelligent. Throw out 2000 years of Church doctrine, benevolence etc. and boil it all down to one sign. The president of the United States is a United Methodist does he speak for us all. He doesn't speak for me, I am a socialist.

Michael

Accepting as absolute fact something for which there exists no evidence whatsoever is probably as good a definition of stupid as you're likely to find,actually.

And I'm a communist/humanist/agnostic/atheist/reborn Christian, but that doesn't make me superior.

BTW it seems to me were drifting away from the issue.

  hail, rise, thrust in santa g

sixteenth smashing edited ?

Rob The Plant. I'm not going to say we were molded from the Earth; personally I believe in evolutution, but there has to be something beyond that.[/QUOTE wrote: Why?

Why?

Pixel Pirate wrote: Accepting as absolute fact something for which there exists no evidence whatsoever is probably as good a definition of stupid as you're likely to find,actually.

Ok I stand corrected- JS Bach "Moron"

"Pixel Pirate" from the prog Archives- Genius.

Michael

mikedevilsfan wrote: James Lee wrote: Yep, they're all foolish. There's a difference between believing in a deity and believing that they talk directly to you. A lot of the speculation on this thread has sounded more like the latter. Of course Zeppelin has had occult influences! They were also influenced by Robert Johnson, but nobody's claiming that you can feel the supernatural power of the King of the Delta Blues if you play "The Lemon Song" backwards. James that’s borderline retarded my friend.  If you can make the leap of the possibility of a deity, why can you go an extra inch and believe that the deity talks to people? That’s like saying, “You can believe in libraries, but believing that there are books inside is another thing all together.” Robert Johnson believed in the Devils enough to sell him his soul. Is the “King of Blues” also stupid? I am starting to get the picture hear: ¾ of the world are stupid, and the three pinheads on this board are not. Gotcha.

Robert Johnson sold his soul to the devil?

Never heard of metaphor MDF?

This is a wind up, right?

mikedevilsfan wrote: Pixel Pirate wrote: Accepting as absolute fact something for which there exists no evidence whatsoever is probably as good a definition of stupid as you're likely to find,actually. Ok I stand corrected- JS Bach "Moron" "Pixel Pirate" from the prog Archives- Genius. Michael

Of course I don't mean a 24 hours a day,complete moron,gaga stupidity but stupid as far as certain areas of his life was concerned. And when did I ever say i was a genius? You really can't take it,can you when someone points out the one glaring,huge,massive,overwhelming flaw in religious reasoning:

THERE'S NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF IT!

Unless of course you have absolute proof of the existance of god,in which case I think there are quite a few people who would like to hear it! Me for one.

Pixel Pirate wrote: mikedevilsfan wrote: Pixel Pirate wrote: Accepting as absolute fact something for which there exists no evidence whatsoever is probably as good a definition of stupid as you're likely to find,actually. Ok I stand corrected- JS Bach "Moron" "Pixel Pirate" from the prog Archives- Genius. Michael Of course I don't mean a 24 hours a day,complete moron,gaga stupidity but stupid as far as certain areas of his life was concerned. And when did I ever say i was a genius? You really can't take it,can you when someone points out the one glaring,huge,massive,overwhelming flaw in religious reasoning: THERE'S NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF IT! Unless of course you have absolute proof of the existance of god,in which case I think there are quite a few people who would like to hear it! Me for one.

I am God!

No I'm the Devil.

No actually I'm Pinhead!

"I'm a monkey with a mispelled name"

Marilyn Manson

Oh Snap!

Rob The Plant wrote: Yes K00l, yes he might be.

If he was born in Judah, he most certainly wasn't white!

atheisme is a religion to.

Atheism is not a religion.

dropForge wrote: atheisme is a religion to. Atheism is not a religion.

this is the posting area for idiots, Drop Forge.
Take your logical reasoning elsewhere!