Hey! Non-Americans!

I live in the U.S. and a good number of us think he's a big, overgrown, whining baby, who is mentally unstable, narcissistic, gets a lot of his (mis)information from Fox & Friends and Alex Jones, spends more time watching TV and playing golf than actually doing his job (which might actually be a good thing), and most likely is a traitor. 

Argo2112 wrote: Well as an America I can say there are a lot of people here that can't believe he was elected. I still shake my head every time I turn on the new to see what knucklehead thing he did the day before. There are a lot of factors that contributed to this mess but I think one of the main factors is that the middle is dying in America. Being sane , reasonable &  moderate have gone out of style & now we are paying the price. I don't normally vote Republican but there were several people running on that side that would have been better choices then Trump. The problem is they weren't  as loud and obnoxious as Trump & America chose flash over substance this time around.Hopefully we can do better next time.

Yes, I think any of his Republican opponents would have been better--even (retch!) that hateful fundamentalist weasel Cruz. I especially admired Kasich for his integrity, class, and reasonableness.

Unfortunately, it seems that dignity, intelligence, and being informed on major issues are not currently winning traits for a presidential contender. Fear, flag waving populism, big lies and disinformation shouted repeatedly, a persecution complex, undermining of the press, the justice system and other checks on dictatorial power, hate and scapegoating of the "other," plus a good ol' appeal to the pocketbook held the greater allure for too many. Who needs a leader you can respect when a crass mega-rich conman promises to lower your taxes, and keep "them" from taking the low-paying service jobs you don't want?

I think the election result reveals a lot about the state of public education (his base seem to hate educated people, and not so much aspire to lift themselves up as drag others down) and basic values in the USA--not to mention the wacky, skewed, and corporately corrupted electoral system!

A Trump presidency is sad, surreal and scary. Even ten years ago, when I saw America as being so polarized along party, racial, religious, and regional lines that I predicted civil war in its future, I never would have thought it could get this bad, this fast.

Edited by Peter - January 23 2018 at 12:14

^ I second your Oy, David. Or is it Oy squared?

I know it's not a new topic, so my apologies for that. I am only recently returned to this forum, and Trump and American news have dominated much of my thought since well before the election (I am sadly out of touch with Canadian news, so boring and "normal" by comparison!).

Still, many others here seem eager enough to offer their (national) perceptions on the question asked....

If you have had enough of the topic, or see it as pointless repetition with nothing new to offer (much like many topics on a forum, such as "what is Prog" "is this Prog" "who is better" ) then please feel free to tune it out without getting too mad at me for my perceived failings.

Edited by Peter - January 23 2018 at 12:44

Peter wrote: Atavachron wrote: Really?  Donald Trump is bad?  Thank you for the insight and for raising a conversation that everyone's been having for a year already.  It's nice to read an original thought, one that brings something new to the table and opens the discussion up to new and productive ideas. Oy. Is that what we supposed to do here? Be productive? Productive of conversation and even community, perhaps? Or are we trying to change the world? I understand that politics is a dangerous, divisive subject (perhaps I was unwise to raise it), but I don't see any need to sarcastically belittle me--unless, of course, I have offended you personally. If so, please believe I did not mean to, and please accept my apologies. (Unless you are actually Donald Trump.) At a social gathering, I just don't join in conversations I have no interest in. Why not just ignore my thread? (Much gets repeated on forums and new people join in.) I'm not your enemy, am I?

Atavachron's just trying to pick a fight, he loves it dearly, man.

Barbu wrote: Atavachron's just trying to pick a fight, he loves it dearly, man.

No denying that (though in this case it's a bit more).

Atavachron, thanks for the evenhanded response, and please feel free to steer this thread in any sort of highbrow, meaty, and productive direction you choose. (Seriously--that would be interesting.)

My title wasn't meant to be antagonistic to Americans, but just to catch attention and garner response.

I was genuinely curious as to how non-Americans perceive Trump. Since well before the election, my wife has CNN on here (I am sadly out of touch on Canadian news, so your proposed Trudeau and/or bacon and/or maple syrup and/or Rush thread might actual get me up to date on my own country) so I hear Americans talk about Trump every day.

No offence. I love much about America, I have cousins and friends there, some of the best people in the world have been or are Americans, and you guys (and your former slaves) invented all the best music.

This is a genuinely stressful time though, and not just for Americans. I understand the emotion.

Peace out.

Peter

Edited by Peter - January 23 2018 at 16:52

Hmmm.... curiouser and curiouser.

Thanks for all the details. I'll stay tuned--I have no choice....

Barbu wrote: Peter wrote: Atavachron wrote: Really?  Donald Trump is bad?  Thank you for the insight and for raising a conversation that everyone's been having for a year already.  It's nice to read an original thought, one that brings something new to the table and opens the discussion up to new and productive ideas. Oy. Is that what we supposed to do here? Be productive? Productive of conversation and even community, perhaps? Or are we trying to change the world? I understand that politics is a dangerous, divisive subject (perhaps I was unwise to raise it), but I don't see any need to sarcastically belittle me--unless, of course, I have offended you personally. If so, please believe I did not mean to, and please accept my apologies. (Unless you are actually Donald Trump.) At a social gathering, I just don't join in conversations I have no interest in. Why not just ignore my thread? (Much gets repeated on forums and new people join in.) I'm not your enemy, am I? Atavachron's just trying to pick a fight, he loves it dearly, man.

He may be trying to pick a fight but he has a point too. Albeit smarmy, the way I interpreted it (a a dual citizen American/Canadian living in the US) is that it is what the majority (literally) of the people in the US feel, and have felt for the past year. That is too say we do not want him as a President and ever since he first was elected we've been talking about how much damage he is doing.

A good place to take this conversation would be to talk about how bad the electoral college is and what we can do to fix it or get a new system. At the very least we need to get rid of this gerrymandering BS.


Edited by zachfive - January 24 2018 at 00:42