UK General Election

Although Theresa May may still be able to forge a coalition with 'yappy' lapdogs the DUP, it's unlikely she will still be able to negotiate her promised 'hard' Brexit with such a fudged mandate in the eyes of the EU. The UK Conservative Government have about as much leverage as 'Dodo Airlines' at these impending trade deal talks. Best case scenario?: May resigns, Labour forms a coalition Government with the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens and Plaid Cymru and negotiate a 'soft' Brexit or (let's get greedy) hold a 2nd referendum to remain in the EU and then deport every c.u.n.t who voted 'leave' to Iceland (because England were booted out of Euro 2016 by Iceland and people who shop there)

JJLehto wrote: Yup, looks like the Tories did win enough seats to form an alliance with DUP, but that is its own sticky situation. Not the least including Sinn Fein is bringing up the Good Friday agreement and I'm not saying we're going back to The Troubles, but yeah...this seems like a bad idea all around.  What a mess! I'm hearing its possible, maybe even likely, a 2nd election will be needed. May says she's not resigning but I can't imagine how she stays. Agreed...hoping, whatever the path, it will lead to a labour lead coalition. The LD's seem absolutely dedicated to remaining, so may be wise to call for a second referendum, which should be a OK with the SNP, PC and SF all of which are pro EU correct?

Yep, May is 'dead woman walking' in the eyes of the Tory establishment for such a dismal election campaign (although some of her fiercest detractors need to look a lot closer to home for the reasons) She started with a seemingly unassailable 22 point lead and had this whittled down to just 2 when they limped over the finishing line. Not sure about a second election being called as (I'm guessing frankly) that either the Conservatives or Labour would have to try to continue as a minority Government and then fail a vote of confidence from the other parties in the house for this to happen? The Tories would get into bed with anyone who offers them a brokered deal but I don't think Corbyn's Labour would. SNP, PC and Sinn Fein are all purportedly pro EU but everyone is naturally sceptical about the motivation behind three avowedly nationalist parties embracing the 'remain' campaign while pursuing their own manifesto pledges to leave the UK. Both the Lib Dems and the DUP are therefore afforded conspicuous leverage, completely at odds with their perceived ability as not even fit to govern a food fight during a famine. Notwithstanding the disingenuous agendas of the nationalists, maybe a Labour led coalition is the best possible outcome. A 2nd Brexit referendum strikes me as completely antithetical to democracy i.e. do they just keep asking the electorate to vote until the desired result is achieved for the powers that be? (and I'm saying that as a 'remain' supporter)

Edited by ExittheLemming - June 10 2017 at 06:08

Blacksword wrote: I predict a very low turn out due to election/referendum fatigue. .

Edited by JJLehto - June 10 2017 at 18:05

It's very good to see. Seriously, how important was our latest election... and the youth vote fell, pretty significantly in some key states. Call it the anti UK....it could be said the youth here cost us, and we're in a mess ourselves. Quite different from what's going on there but yeah, voting matters. 

Blacksword wrote: JJLehto wrote: It's very good to see. Seriously, how important was our latest election... and the youth vote fell, pretty significantly in some key states. Call it the anti UK....it could be said the youth here cost us, and we're in a mess ourselves. Quite different from what's going on there but yeah, voting matters.  Oh wow, I didn't know she leveled that attack at Corbyn (guess conservatives everywhere just call liberals soft on terrorism (or these days in bed with them)) so very ironic she's allied with a group that has actual terrorist history. Yikes.  DUP seems like bad news all around. More I read into em, more I'm disturbed. Also, seems they are for soft brexit, and against austerity. Least that is what I gather. If so...what overlap do they really have with the tories? Is it possible this is the end of UK austerity?  Austerity, is effectively just a weapon used by government to stifle social mobility. To limit our property and land buying power and financial independence. It's aim is to maintain clear divide between the working/middle class and the actual wealthy class. There is actually plenty of money available, it's withheld for ideological reasons, not economic. IMO. Under conservatism you'll always see the ranks of the poor swelling in correlation to the swelling of the bank accounts of the uber rich. As far as I can see, the only real connection between the tories and DUP is a tenuous Christian link. Christian lunatics gravitate more towards conservatism than liberalism, despite the obvious mean, small minded and uncaring nature of conservatism.

I'm broadly sympathetic to what you're saying but as unpalatable it may sound (and this is coming from a left leaning humanitarian) socialism effectively distributes wealth but capitalism creates it. You may be confusing a fiscal budget surplus to which everyone contributes with the capriciously relative term 'wealth'. Wealth is NOT 'withheld' for ideological reasons in 1st world democracies. Financial surpluses are certainly redistributed for ideological reasons (read:Tax policies which are either punitive or egalitarian depending on your political orientation) If the aim of austerity was to maintain 'a clear divide between the working/middle class and the actual wealthy class' wouldn't this simply DECREASE the niche demographic that any right wing Government who implement such measures from being able to vote them into power?

Blacksword wrote: JJLehto wrote: It's very good to see. Seriously, how important was our latest election... and the youth vote fell, pretty significantly in some key states. Call it the anti UK....it could be said the youth here cost us, and we're in a mess ourselves. Quite different from what's going on there but yeah, voting matters.  Oh wow, I didn't know she leveled that attack at Corbyn (guess conservatives everywhere just call liberals soft on terrorism (or these days in bed with them)) so very ironic she's allied with a group that has actual terrorist history. Yikes.  DUP seems like bad news all around. More I read into em, more I'm disturbed. Also, seems they are for soft brexit, and against austerity. Least that is what I gather. If so...what overlap do they really have with the tories? Is it possible this is the end of UK austerity?  Austerity, is effectively just a weapon used by government to stifle social mobility. To limit our property and land buying power and financial independence. It's aim is to maintain clear divide between the working/middle class and the actual wealthy class. There is actually plenty of money available, it's withheld for ideological reasons, not economic. IMO. Under conservatism you'll always see the ranks of the poor swelling in correlation to the swelling of the bank accounts of the uber rich. As far as I can see, the only real connection between the tories and DUP is a tenuous Christian link. Christian lunatics gravitate more towards conservatism than liberalism, despite the obvious mean, small minded and uncaring nature of conservatism.

JJLehto wrote: Blacksword wrote: JJLehto wrote: It's very good to see. Seriously, how important was our latest election... and the youth vote fell, pretty significantly in some key states. Call it the anti UK....it could be said the youth here cost us, and we're in a mess ourselves. Quite different from what's going on there but yeah, voting matters.  Oh wow, I didn't know she leveled that attack at Corbyn (guess conservatives everywhere just call liberals soft on terrorism (or these days in bed with them)) so very ironic she's allied with a group that has actual terrorist history. Yikes.  DUP seems like bad news all around. More I read into em, more I'm disturbed. Also, seems they are for soft brexit, and against austerity. Least that is what I gather. If so...what overlap do they really have with the tories? Is it possible this is the end of UK austerity?  Austerity, is effectively just a weapon used by government to stifle social mobility. To limit our property and land buying power and financial independence. It's aim is to maintain clear divide between the working/middle class and the actual wealthy class. There is actually plenty of money available, it's withheld for ideological reasons, not economic. IMO. Under conservatism you'll always see the ranks of the poor swelling in correlation to the swelling of the bank accounts of the uber rich. As far as I can see, the only real connection between the tories and DUP is a tenuous Christian link. Christian lunatics gravitate more towards conservatism than liberalism, despite the obvious mean, small minded and uncaring nature of conservatism. Oh trust me, preaching to the choir, and ironically the only time austerity could be justifiably done would be an expanding economy....instead we always chose to do it as a response to recession which is not only cruel but its basically like hitting the breaks going up a hill. You are of course right, its purely ideology and not economics. It's an excuse to slash government, and absolutely to maintain inequalities. Even in cases where there are legitimate needs for reform, such as Greece, austerity is a stupid idea. Why ask people to make painful cuts and changes after being plunged into a new great depression? We hear "they need to take their medicine" but austerity as a means to do so is like coating the pill in acid. Doubly screwed up because in that case austerity is being used as the justification for their bailouts, which went mostly to creditors, so we have the people paying quite heavily for the bailouts of intl banks and institutions. At least here in the US we have an independent Central Bank that can eat that mountain of sh*t assets, not that conservatives still don't push for austerity of course!  Yeah, I do wonder what DUP would demand for support. There does seem to be almost no connection, and I know the DUP is um...aggressive. I imagine they'd want to push for some of their ideas.  I won't get into here since it's not the place I'll just say I'm very used to that. As ya know here Christianity is largely (but not entirely) linked with conservatism, usually an anti government brand, and I never got how the cruelness of right wing economics can be so defended with faith but eh, I've accepted in the US most people care about their politics and $ more than faith anyway.

The relationship between religion and conservative politics is quite logical I guess when you think about it. It's about control and being cruel 'to be kind' Or, in other words, it's about trying to convince people you're trying to help them, when in fact you're just trying to assert control over them.

Liberalism is deemed evil by Christian conservatives because it allows for free expression, and crucially the open challenging of Christian belief and conservative ideas, which is a demonstrable threat to that particular power structure. It's the same reason Islam is so conservative even in it's so called 'moderate' manifestations.

Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

The only blatant bias I can detect with the BBC is it's steadfast refusal to criticise Israel regardless of how heinous are its foreign policy actions. Can't say I can vouch for Labour politicians getting a rougher ride than the Tories from the BBC but you probably see a lot more coverage then me (I live in Australia) I don't think I'm confusing liberal with left wing but just mean by the former a reformist, tolerant, inclusive and altruistic set of values. I'm disappointed you don't rate the Independent as I've loved it since it's inception in 1986. It's a pro-market left leaning newspaper viewspaper but I don't see how you equate that with a globalist mindset. For me, the notion of globalism has become tantamount to an alarmist rallying call to what are perceived as the perils of nationalism throughout history.


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 14 2017 at 03:52

Atavachron wrote: Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

Possibly, we've maybe been guilty of taking many things for granted in the UK. Although I no longer live there, I fear the worst for the outcome of the Brexit negotiations. The EU are going to ensure that the exit terms afforded to the UK will make any member nation abandon entirely the very idea of leaving in the future


Edited by ExittheLemming - June 14 2017 at 04:02