4: Liberals, Sinn Fein maybe others may very well refuse to work with labour so it could indeed be total gridlock

5: Regardless, May is screwed and tories aren't looking so hot. 

It seems to me people had a bit of a "jerk back to reality" after brexit after happened and many regretted it. Surely many urban voters were pissed off. Why did May even call this election???

... (except the US of course) 

Every week I am reminded more and more that politics really is the same all over. Sounds like an eerily close to home picture. Indeed, I recall rogerthat and I discussed that elsewhere, the 1930s sure did feel like it was on repeat, but damn...things have gone even more this way than I expected. 

Though I do maintain slivers of hope always, before immigrants and Muslims it was austerity, much like here before police shootings opened up the racial chasm and we turned to xenophobia, it was bailouts, too much $ in government, etc etc  all that got swept under the rug a bit. Let's hope it can be resurrected. People are reactionary by nature and sadly...not prone to think first. Makes it hard for Sanders, Corbyn to get people to listen. I still hope people are starting to see the collective wake up call though. 1: that the neoliberal orthodoxy has kinda f**ked things up but 2: right wing populism is no way out, and is just gunna use and screw you. So keep the racism and fear to yourself and start thinking! 

I know nothing of UK politics and results are early but I'm hearing there's a not insignificant swing to labour in one area. If these exit polls are right, it's gunna be one crazy time.

Likewise, so would a Labour-SNP-SF-PC alliance. The liberals may be the key to a coalition, or gridlock. Least that's how I'm reading all this. For the moment they refuse to work with either. Seems silly...compromise must be better than gridlock, is there any hope that Corbyn calls for a 2nd referendum to get the liberals on board?

No surprise, UKIP has been wiped off the map, SNP taken quite a hit apparently to both labour and tories. Can anyone explain why? I thought they owned Scotland basically. 

Do want to say, with all the similarities in US and UK politics I noticed another: I remember the shock, and horror, at Corbyn's success, but "it wont last" and "it will doom the party". I saw probably 20 articles over time how "he's toast" "this is the end of him". Yeah...how's that panned out? 

It reminds me very much of Sanders here, "it wont last" "oh well OK he'll die in Nevada. Oh well South Carolina. Oh well super tuesday. Hmmmm well he'll fizzle anyway it's over" and also how he would be an obvious loss for the Democrats. Again...how did that pan out? Just interesting the media/powers that be loathe these labor populists as much as the right wing anti EU ones, but it just isn't going away. 

As you say lazland, politics is becoming very divided everywhere. Another similarity. 

I think, based on this result as well as Macron's big win in France, that people are already beginning to baulk at the extreme right, which is a good thing. As Teo said, Trump may be scaring off people in other parts of the world from voting in right wing governments/leaders.  And because the right is being forced to move to the centre again (Macron), it presents yet another opportunity to the ailing left to wake up.  At least there, the Labour party did the right thing by persisting with Corbyn unlike, ahem, the Democrats.  People don't want to listen to more and more platitudes from politicians who have promised the moon to deliver next to nothing.  They want to see people who relate to their anger.  And while I am skeptical of populists from either side, at least a leftist within a democratic set up is a better alternative to the right.

It seems that way. I won't be an arrogant American, all credit to Europeans but surely there's been some Trump effect as well. Indeed, let's hope a leveling out is happening. I keep praying the US will reach a point of maximum rightward drift, maybe under Trump, and snap back to something more reasonable. 

What a mess!

I'm hearing its possible, maybe even likely, a 2nd election will be needed. May says she's not resigning but I can't imagine how she stays. Agreed...hoping, whatever the path, it will lead to a labour lead coalition. The LD's seem absolutely dedicated to remaining, so may be wise to call for a second referendum, which should be a OK with the SNP, PC and SF all of which are pro EU correct?

I have no idea, just going off what I read. 

Likewise I don't know quite how UK politics work, but I do share that sentiment....this is all basically the Tories fault and May just was the unfortunate soul that had to take the reins through this mess. Though I dont know whose idea it was to call the snap election, maybe May was doing as she was told but yeah I can't imagine how she doesn't resign/is booted out after this sh*tstorm. If Cameron resigned, how can May not after losing the majority, strengthening Corbyn, producing political hardship, possibly re opening Irish tensions AND putting the DUP as role of kingmaker, which I can't imagine anyone really wants. 

No that's true about the questionable agendas, and even Corbyn who was pro remain I thought was known he probably favored a soft brexit, likely so he can better pursue his policies. Maybe a sift brexit is unfortunately the best route out but then Liberals aren't on board right? Oi...

Agreed, the people have spoken and if we want to believe in democracy like we claim, what can ya do? We definitely can't keep doing it over until we get the result we want Much like Trump can win with 46% of the vote (hell, some losers have gotten more than that) but it's how our system works, and we can want reform but have to accept what has happened. 

I have no idea what is normal for UK elections, but turnout was over 68% and that seems pretty darn good. 

Then again I'm used to the US where 58% was a shockingly high turnout

Politics is important, especially these days and with what's going on in the UK I'm glad to see good turnout. Supposedly youth turnout was quite high, around 70% and the areas with the biggest swells went labour. All very relieving to see. 

Oh wow, I didn't know she leveled that attack at Corbyn (guess conservatives everywhere just call liberals soft on terrorism (or these days in bed with them)) so very ironic she's allied with a group that has actual terrorist history. Yikes. 

DUP seems like bad news all around. More I read into em, more I'm disturbed. Also, seems they are for soft brexit, and against austerity. Least that is what I gather. If so...what overlap do they really have with the tories? Is it possible this is the end of UK austerity? 

Oh trust me, preaching to the choir, and ironically the only time austerity could be justifiably done would be an expanding economy....instead we always chose to do it as a response to recession which is not only cruel but its basically like hitting the breaks going up a hill. You are of course right, its purely ideology and not economics. It's an excuse to slash government, and absolutely to maintain inequalities. Even in cases where there are legitimate needs for reform, such as Greece, austerity is a stupid idea. Why ask people to make painful cuts and changes after being plunged into a new great depression? We hear "they need to take their medicine" but austerity as a means to do so is like coating the pill in acid. Doubly screwed up because in that case austerity is being used as the justification for their bailouts, which went mostly to creditors, so we have the people paying quite heavily for the bailouts of intl banks and institutions. At least here in the US we have an independent Central Bank that can eat that mountain of sh*t assets, not that conservatives still don't push for austerity of course! 

Yeah, I do wonder what DUP would demand for support. There does seem to be almost no connection, and I know the DUP is um...aggressive. I imagine they'd want to push for some of their ideas. 

I won't get into here since it's not the place I'll just say I'm very used to that. As ya know here Christianity is largely (but not entirely) linked with conservatism, usually an anti government brand, and I never got how the cruelness of right wing economics can be so defended with faith but eh, I've accepted in the US most people care about their politics and $ more than faith anyway. 

I am a market capitalist by the way. I just think a moderate capitalism is the best way to go, and (aside from nationalization of some industries) I don't see anything socialistic about Sanders, Corbyn or most leftist parties. There's no need....we found a way to right many of the issues with capitalism, it prevailed after WWII, and it wasn't socialism. 

Well to be fair.....liberals, (ahem mainstream liberals) in much of the world has accepted austerity or some degree of it. It's been our last two Democratic President's that agreed to fiscal restraint after all, and heck all these "socialist" and "labor" parties seem to embrace it as well. Thus the rise of anti liberal left wing populism

As for the right wing populism and specifically a rejection of liberalism, I DO think bad times are one source. People turn to extremes when times are bad, they entrench, as Obama said here "people cling to guns and religion" we turn on each other and form tribes. 

Part is people are naturally reactionary. Some police shootings, terrorist attacks, people start turning anger that at other groups, or subdued racial feelings get unleashed. 

I do agree, people are tired of the political class. I sure as hell am. Just it's not all liberal ya know....I am kinda confused why there's the insistence on "people are rejecting liberalism" or "the liberal elite". Both here and in some other countries, mainstream conservative parties are under as much internal fire as the left. 

The political class, as a whole, is under attack. Part is their arrogance, their ignoring masses of people and....neoliberalism/austerity lol  I tell ya, that was the big beef until 2-3 years ago when immigration became the hot button. Same here....it was all bailouts, big gov, $ in politics etc from the tea party until a few years and they shifted to culture war type stuff. 

Yeah I've realized part of Trump's appeal is simply a counter reaction to progress. His fans are so...enigmatic, vague, all over the place and never seem to really care about his flip flops or policy at all. They just love him, and I could never get why. Even economically these people sometimes sound like rabid gov hating tea partiers. I think overall, Trump vents the frustration of the "heartland" to progress. 

In a very short span, gay marriage went from accepted in a few blue states to nation wide. A new state here and there, then it felt like a new one every week, then boom suddenly it's made legal across the country. I mean 2004 an election was won largely on the premise of not allowing gay marriage, 2015 its now law for the US. 

Oh and the police shootings/rise of BLM. That opened up the nasty race problem that is always lingering in the US just under the surface. Seriously that has brought alot of darkness up to the surface. Isis has sprouted up, and there's been a few lone wolf events in the US. 

Gay marriage, racial tensions reopened, isis/terrorism that's alot of rapid change in a short span, and people have knee jerked because of it. As always cruddy economy too. 

It isn't necessarily always clear cut in India either; much depends on the background.  I am not so disconnected because I grew up in a far flung suburb.  But there are those who grew up in downtown Mumbai and can barely speak Hindi at all, to the point where their pronunciation of Hindi names is no better than, excuse me, a foreigner. I see the latter class growing as the middle/upper class grows in prosperity and moves in ever higher social circles.  The frightening backlash to this gave us Modi.  Though...there is also this thing called jingoism so you'd even find those among aforementioned rarefied Mumbai elites who fervently admire him.  As I am sure there are wealthy people who admire Trump.

From what I can tell, in the UK and some other Euro countries, there are rural ares that will vote leftist. People who may be conservative socially/in nature but still get the concept of ya know, voting in their own self benefit Unlike here in the states where decades of kool aid, erm I mean mythology,(culture??) has brainwashed people to vote against their own benefit. 

Though I guess there is the case of Wales, which gets $ from the EU, votes to leave the EU.  

Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but as a Scotsman I thought I would answer your question.

Until 2007 the Scottish parliament in Edinburgh was ran by Labour, and until the 2015 General Election Labour used to always win the majority of the Scottish seats for the Westminster government. In fact, there was a commonly used saying in Scotland that Labour could pin a red rosette on a monkey and would still get elected here.

However, Labour gradually stagnated in power and were eventually ousted by the pro-independence Scottish National Party in 2007. The SNP were re-elected for a second term in 2011, and their 2011 manifesto included a promise to hold a referendum on Scottish Independence during their second term in office if they were re-elected. The referendum eventually took place in 2014, with No winning with 55% of the vote.

The 2015 General Election saw the SNP win 56 out of 59 seats in Scotland, effectively wiping out Labour in Scotland. Many saw this as a reaction to the independence referendum result, and an indication of a hunger for  a second referendum in the future. Some saw it as an indication that the SNP had replaced Labour as the party of the working class in Scotland, with many citing the fact that Labour and the Conservatives were not really different from each other at the time.

At the 2017 General Election, Labour won back some seats from the SNP and the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats also took seats from the SNP, reducing the number of SNP seats from 56 to 35. 

 In my opinion, the SNP campaign during the 2017 election was very weak. I never really saw any campaigning going on, which was strange as the constituency where I live is formerly a Labour stronghold but was controlled by the SNP between 2015 and 2017 but is now a Conservative seat. I think that the SNP took it for granted that they would repeat their success of 2015 and underestimated the opposition to their proposal to hold a second independence referendum. Also, the "Corbyn effect" attracted left-wing voters from the SNP to Labour and many people who oppose a second independence referendum voted tactically in the election to ensure that pro-independence candidates were defeated by candidates from pro-UK parties.

I hope I've explained that alright. If you have any questions about anything else just ask.

Sounds about right, with what I've heard but I guess my question was more why did the SNP lose so bad. You seem to think it was poor campaigning and just assuming they stay in power (which makes total sense, it plagued the Democratic Party last year). Never in politics can ya just kinda assume you will remain in power/will win and not try that hard (again, lesson to some older Democrats here who seem to think if we just wait in 20 years we'll run the nation forever)

However, I am always curious about what parties support austerity and what the backlash is (tis my pet project ha) and from what I gather the SNP either pursued austerity or vocally supported it/didn't sound very convincing in their opposition so I wondered if that helped as well.

It's happening all over. I know all across Europe their leftist parties have drifted to the center and in general all their parties are occupying a vaguely centrist realm and taking mostly the same positions. 

 With both left and right options being taken away, and the feeling that politics doesnt work for you...this is just plain ol history. You called it there. This all, quite literally, happened before. 

Same here in the US (well in our case the left party drifted center and the right party has venture into nihilistic-ally right) and without a true liberal option, and with conservatives who feel they are being left behind (aka things change and they are grasping for the old ways) yeah makes sense we get Sanders and Trump. Though even the Republicans now are becoming anti trade in rhetoric and talk about jobs and wages and etc  Basically left and right, globally, are rejecting the FriedmanThatcherReagan revolution.

BUT all us silly angsty lefties whining about labor and globalization and inequality and "hey maybe this isnt working out quite like yall say" were mocked and ignored all those years. 

Shame is this all indeed has happened before...

I'm sure some truly believed their words, and as it got rolled out it became divine law, but no doubt many of its architects knew what would happen, and didn't care. They were motivated by ideology or self benefit. 
Problem with the EU btw at its core is that is was built on these ideals. 

Yup, that is the end game of it all. People always scoff or think it's hyperbole but it's just knowledge of history and observation of what's happening (plus some logical thought). Taken to its conclusion a largely 2 class society is all that really can emerge. And we're heading there. 

People seemed to be waking up to this, but yup...fear of immigrants (that they are rarely ever gunna interact with) distracted em all. Add to it a knee jerk reaction to intellectuals (aka evidence and rational discourse) and "liberalism" (aka the improvement of women, non whites, LGBT rights, trying to save the planet and fear from white males losing their standing) and here we are. The ultimate blow to maximum free market woooooo! mythology: People are often irrational, short sighted, easily swayed and miss the mark entirely 

Since this has been restarted, news here is sorely lacking and I have been busy. How exactly are things going across the pond? How are Brexit talks going and I guess the world hasn't ended from the Tory-DUP alliance. 

It does seem that that no one has any idea yeah. I got the feeling, and you seem to confirm this, that no one (even supporters) actually expected Yes to win, so never bothered. So now literally everyone is caught with their pants down running around trying to figure it out on the fly. I have indeed read that even Labour seems to have no idea what they want with Corbyn being vague and taking the "I just want jobs for the UK regardless of what we do" which I am for but thats certainly not a very concrete plan. What a mess. 

That's for sure, everyone everywhere has missed the zeitgeist it seems, and people are clearly not equipped to make these populist decisions. And that's not a slight at the UK, look at our mess. When there is a backlash against intellectualism....I reckon that's what is gunna happen. People can gripe about elites and the power and etc and sure there's some validity but it's mostly bullsh*t, and the result is all this mess. Yikes. 

Ah yes, if the Tory led government pushes more austerity, it will indeed drag down/harm the economy long run...but this time people would actually have to turn their anger inward and wouldn't be able to blame the EU anymore. No idea what the overall sentiment on social issues is in the UK, but immigration is likely gunna be on trial yeah