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Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Posted: February 08 2017 at 00:09
Most prog is pretty pretentious. But that's fine, there's nothing wrong with pretence in music. If all bands 'kept it real' music would be very bland and uninspiring.
Yes spring to mind as being ridiculously pretentious.
Most prog is pretty pretentious. But that's fine, there's nothing wrong with pretence in music. If all bands 'kept it real' music would be very bland and uninspiring.
Yes spring to mind as being ridiculously pretentious.
Exactly. Without musical evolution we would still be listening to pop music, quite a boring life.
Yes, those pioneers of Prog once become so ridiculous that they didnīt realize it at all. The first time in heard Sound chaser decades ago I just burst out laughing. I still do :)
You may see a smile on Tony Banksī face but thatīs unlikely.
Joined: June 12 2012
Location: Staten Island
Status: Offline
Points: 225
Posted: February 08 2017 at 03:47
Blacksword wrote:
Most prog is pretty pretentious. But that's fine, there's nothing wrong with pretence in music. If all bands 'kept it real' music would be very bland and uninspiring.
Yes spring to mind as being ridiculously pretentious.
I don't mind pretentiousness in music. My username aside, I think we need that slight arrogance and the effectiveness of new bands to push the boundaries. Without it we would have not been introduced to Frank Zappa in the 60s, ELP in the 70s, and so on.
Joined: August 06 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 856
Posted: February 08 2017 at 04:10
I have never been able to understand why showing virtuosity at points is so bad. Those top musicians are able to consider if it fits the music or not most of the time. Apart from live shows, I really don't get what's so annoying???
Joined: June 12 2012
Location: Staten Island
Status: Offline
Points: 225
Posted: February 08 2017 at 05:09
DDPascalDD wrote:
I have never been able to understand why showing virtuosity at points is so bad. Those top musicians are able to consider if it fits the music or not most of the time. Apart from live shows, I really don't get what's so annoying???
I'm with you. I suppose we need to look at who is doing the critiquing. Sometimes your answer reveals itself then.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29684
Posted: February 08 2017 at 06:08
Sean Trane wrote:
ELP & Wakeman were in a class of their own
A fairly common view but Floyd and Genesis were just as bad accepting that generally their music has stood the test of time better than ELP and Wakeman.
I have never been able to understand why showing virtuosity at points is so bad. Those top musicians are able to consider if it fits the music or not most of the time. Apart from live shows, I really don't get what's so annoying???
I see your point I guess. But itīs not a question of virtuosity. On the contrary, the best music is full of virtuosity, in so many aspects, be it classical, jazz, rock, even pop (Beatles, ABBA), for me at least. Itīs all due to dullness, when bands get too self-indulgent, too pompous, playing pointless (too) long solos (to fill the space), pointless rambling and jumping here and there, aimless compositions... sacrificing melody and harmony for cachophony and pseudo virtuosity. Yah, when they get so damn serious, about themselves. Very few artists, even the best "prog" acts did not realize their limits, eventually.
Listener eventually gets a feeling he/she has been cheated. Thatīs why punk was born after 1974. Johnny Rotten hated boring pop music, probably the lame TOTP in the first place. But not necessarily ELP because exists a picture of him and Keith Emerson together laughing and having a good time. Emerson is pretentious for some but I never found his playing boring, in the 70īs to be exact. Later since the 90īs ELP just lost their magic, most of the time.
Edited by Son.of.Tiresias - February 08 2017 at 09:32
You may see a smile on Tony Banksī face but thatīs unlikely.
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Lā, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
Posted: February 08 2017 at 09:28
Pretentious? As in, let's say: "Dude, we're going to make the most amazing music ever and none shall try to do music after us"? Or as in: "No, seriously, we're an important band in the history of music, our music should be taken seriously, stop making fun of us" ? In the first case: 1) Yes was pretentious in 1974, at the time of Tales From Topographic Oceans (they get better after the tour) 2) ELP when releasing Works or even their triple-LP live album 3) Magma's first album which was a double LP (bold and audacious or simply goddamn megalomaniac?!) 4) Robert Fripp / King Crimson, who takes himself a bit too seriously for a while now (not that I won't listen to King Crimson's new material, if there's any plan to release it) 5) Rick Wakeman, which Hollywood-friendly take on Romanticism had always been a bit too much for my palate (on the other hand, he's a keyboard player...) 6) Triumvirat - see above. 7) Even Pink Floyd had their moments of pretentiousness (hey, let's face it, they did have, didn't they?)
I'm trying to add 3 other acts to make a Top Ten (looking towards some Prog-Metal bands...), but that will be for later.
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
Posted: February 08 2017 at 10:23
CPicard wrote:
Pretentious? As in, let's say: "Dude, we're going to make the most amazing music ever and none shall try to do music after us"? Or as in: "No, seriously, we're an important band in the history of music, our music should be taken seriously, stop making fun of us" ? In the first case: 1) Yes was pretentious in 1974, at the time of Tales From Topographic Oceans (they get better after the tour) 2) ELP when releasing Works or even their triple-LP live album 3) Magma's first album which was a double LP (bold and audacious or simply goddamn megalomaniac?!) 4) Robert Fripp / King Crimson, who takes himself a bit too seriously for a while now (not that I won't listen to King Crimson's new material, if there's any plan to release it) 5) Rick Wakeman, which Hollywood-friendly take on Romanticism had always been a bit too much for my palate (on the other hand, he's a keyboard player...) 6) Triumvirat - see above. 7) Even Pink Floyd had their moments of pretentiousness (hey, let's face it, they did have, didn't they?)
I'm trying to add 3 other acts to make a Top Ten (looking towards some Prog-Metal bands...), but that will be for later.
the gigantic Pink Floyd live shows with flying pigs and whatnots definitely justify the attribute "pretentious"
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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