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Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: January 22 2017 at 17:47
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
..
.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: January 22 2017 at 18:00
HackettFan wrote:
... The first we have any name for is John the Baptist, who also had his own followers even to this day. ...
I couldn't recall their name before. The "followers" I was referring to are the Mandaeans. They are a gnostic sect that survives to this day. They hold John the Baptist in the highest esteem, above all other prophets, including Jesus. Fascinating.
Edited by HackettFan - January 22 2017 at 18:02
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35696
Posted: January 22 2017 at 18:27
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
..
.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
What you mean by Einstein was fervent believer in God? He has called himself agnostic and he has expressed a belief in Spinoza's god: "Spinoza's metaphysics of God is neatly summed up in a phrase that occurs in the Latin (but not the original Dutch) edition of the Ethics: “God, or Nature”, Deus, sive Natura: “That eternal and infinite being we call God, or Nature, acts from the same necessity from which he exists” (Part IV, Preface)."
Some Einstein quotes:
Einstein in 1929 wrote:
Scientific research can reduce superstition by encouraging people to think and view things in terms of cause and effect. Certain it is that a conviction, akin to religious feeling, of the rationality and intelligibility of the world lies behind all scientific work of a higher order... This firm belief, a belief bound up with a deep feeling, in a superior mind that reveals itself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God. In common parlance this may be described as "pantheistic" (Spinoza).
Einstein in 1929 wrote:
I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.
Einstein in 1950 wrote:
My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.
Einstein in 1952 wrote:
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text.
EInstein in 1954 wrote:
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
I would call Einstein an agnostic, but whether he believed in some pantheistic deity or not, he did not believe in a personal God.
Joined: October 31 2015
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Posted: January 22 2017 at 18:38
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
First off, care to read again what I posted or tell me where I implicitly or explicitly said that about atheists.
And yes indeed man, Albert Einstein did have a sort of 'insight' when predicting the existence of the gravitational waves, undoubtedly the greatest scientific discovery of the last centuries.
Joined: February 04 2016
Location: Aust
Status: Offline
Points: 1802
Posted: January 22 2017 at 18:48
Tillerman88 wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
First off, care to read again what I posted or tell me where I implicitly or explicitly said that about atheists.
And yes indeed man, Albert Einstein did have a sort of 'insight' when predicting the existence of the gravitational waves, undoubtedly the greatest scientific discovery of the last centuries.
This posts are too short make them longer or you will burn in hell...............
"Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes" and I need the knits, the double knits!
Joined: October 31 2015
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Posted: January 22 2017 at 19:12
Logan wrote:
I would call Einstein an agnostic, but whether he believed in some pantheistic deity or not, he did not believe in a personal God.
So, could you tell me why my reference above would imply a personal God??
Anyway.........., although he clearly didn’t believe in a personal God (as revealed in the Bible),” Einstein once wrote that he wanted to know ‘His’ thoughts, referred to God as ‘He,’ and acknowledged that He revealed ‘Himself.'”
But in fact you are right if you think this is a point of no relevance at all. Fairly speaking , I couldn't care less whether Einstein is agnostic or atheist lol
Joined: October 31 2015
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Posted: January 22 2017 at 19:18
EddieRUKiddingVarese wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
First off, care to read again what I posted or tell me where I implicitly or explicitly said that about atheists.
And yes indeed man, Albert Einstein did have a sort of 'insight' when predicting the existence of the gravitational waves, undoubtedly the greatest scientific discovery of the last centuries.
This posts are too short make them longer or you will burn in hell...............
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35696
Posted: January 22 2017 at 19:35
Tillerman88 wrote:
Logan wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
..
.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
What you mean by Einstein was fervent believer in God? He has called himself agnostic and he has expressed a belief in Spinoza's god: "Spinoza's metaphysics of God is neatly summed up in a phrase that occurs in the Latin (but not the original Dutch) edition of the Ethics: “God, or Nature”, Deus, sive Natura: “That eternal and infinite being we call God, or Nature, acts from the same necessity from which he exists” (Part IV, Preface)."
Some Einstein quotes:
Einstein in 1929 wrote:
Scientific research can reduce superstition by encouraging people to think and view things in terms of cause and effect. Certain it is that a conviction, akin to religious feeling, of the rationality and intelligibility of the world lies behind all scientific work of a higher order... This firm belief, a belief bound up with a deep feeling, in a superior mind that reveals itself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God. In common parlance this may be described as "pantheistic" (Spinoza).
Einstein in 1929 wrote:
I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.
Einstein in 1950 wrote:
My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment.
Einstein in 1952 wrote:
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text.
EInstein in 1954 wrote:
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
I would call Einstein an agnostic, but whether he believed in some pantheistic deity or not, he did not believe in a personal God.
So, could you tell me why my reference above would imply a personal God??
Anyway.........., although he clearly didn’t believe in a personal God (as revealed in the Bible),” Einstein once wrote that he wanted to know ‘His’ thoughts, referred to God as ‘He,’ and acknowledged that He revealed ‘Himself.'”
But in fact you are right if you think this is a point of no relevance at all. Fairly speaking , I couldn't care less whether Einstein is agnostic or atheist lol
I hadn't meant to imply that you were saying that, I was talking about his beliefs. Since this thread topic is about Jesus Christ, and Christians often talk about a personal God, I thought people might find it interesting. I'm saying that I don't believe in your truth claim that Einstein was an ardent believer in God's existence. Another reason for me to mention the personal God idea is because there has been talk of theism and atheism, and theism is commonly differentiated from deism in that it is a "belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures."
I couldn't see the relevance, and I still don't know why you called him an ardent believer in God's existence. That implies that Einstein clearly and consistently held that God does exist, yet I don't see that at all despite whatever one infers from what he "once wrote".
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
Posted: January 22 2017 at 19:37
Tillerman88 wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
First off, care to read again what I posted or tell me where I implicitly or explicitly said that about atheists.
And yes indeed man, Albert Einstein did have a sort of 'insight' when predicting the existence of the gravitational waves, undoubtedly the greatest scientific discovery of the last centuries.
Well, I presume you're making some connection between religiosity and intuition. That seems to be the point here, which would set it in contrast with a lack of religiosity as a counterpoint. I can't see any other purpose. You also use the idea of "...believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first". This is used relentlessly in attempts of persuasion by religionists, so my interpretation of what you were trying to say, right or wrong, is not far-fetched. It does seem a stretch to define intuition as you did, but okay. Maybe I'm being a bit difficult with the physics part of this because "intuition" (abduction) is often posited as responsible for hypotheses, but Einstein in particular was well known for thought experiments. He would suppose, for instance, what would happen using Newtonian physics if you could sit on a beam of light and approached two other objects traveling two different velocities, knowing the speed of light is constant. This sort of thing is a reasoning process. It is not intuition. I noticed, though, in your reply that you converted "intuition" to "...a sort of 'insight'...", and I don't think that intuition is at all equivalent to insight. Intuition tells me that 'Man slow the bit dog' is an ungrammatical sentence. It's not the result of any reasoning process and it is certainly not insightful.
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
Joined: February 04 2016
Location: Aust
Status: Offline
Points: 1802
Posted: January 22 2017 at 19:48
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
Tillerman88 wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
To me there's only one certain fact concerning the matter and that's: nobody knows.
........
Any deeply religious person is, in my mind, in the grip of some powerful mass hysteria..
Everyone is born with the capability of believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first. This capability is commonly called INTUITION, which is historically found to be pretty more developed and mastered on ancient eastern cultures than on our occidental cultures, much more based on empirical evidences. Just as an ilustration of it, one very well-known example is the development of the intuition on the formal training of Samurais.
But the most well know geniuses of our occidental culture also naturally developed intuition. Einstein (BTW an ardent beliver in God's existence) wondered about the existence of the gravitational waves (as well as on the existence of their own sounds) without having the least remote empirical evidence of it. Of course his experience and knowledge on that field helped him, however he was the very first to say those two words, as well as kind of 'feel' the possible existence of the gravitational waves. Intuition? Much likely, I would say no wonder about it! And just recently, the scientific community were able to prove their existence. What am I suggesting with all this subject? Just have this perspective in account, and think about it.
Since when are atheists anti-intuition? In any event, Einstein did not kind of 'feel' the possible existence of gravity waves.
First off, care to read again what I posted or tell me where I implicitly or explicitly said that about atheists.
And yes indeed man, Albert Einstein did have a sort of 'insight' when predicting the existence of the gravitational waves, undoubtedly the greatest scientific discovery of the last centuries.
Well, I presume you're making some connection between religiosity and intuition. That seems to be the point here, which would set it in contrast with a lack of religiosity as a counterpoint. I can't see any other purpose. You also use the idea of "...believing in the existence of something without having to see and hear it first". This is used relentlessly in attempts of persuasion by religionists, so my interpretation of what you were trying to say, right or wrong, is not far-fetched. It does seem a stretch to define intuition as you did, but okay. Maybe I'm being a bit difficult with the physics part of this because "intuition" (abduction) is often posited as responsible for hypotheses, but Einstein in particular was well known for thought experiments. He would suppose, for instance, what would happen using Newtonian physics if you could sit on a beam of light and approached two other objects traveling two different velocities, knowing the speed of light is constant. This sort of thing is a reasoning process. It is not intuition. I noticed, though, in your reply that you converted "intuition" to "...a sort of 'insight'...", and I don't think that intuition is at all equivalent to insight. Intuition tells me that 'Man slow the bit dog' is an ungrammatical sentence. It's not the result of any reasoning process and it is certainly not insightful.
Your improving
"Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes" and I need the knits, the double knits!
Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1395
Posted: January 22 2017 at 20:08
Dean wrote:
CosmicVibration wrote:
For your information I’ve read the entire Bible, cover to
cover; well over 30 years ago.Since
then I’ve only read a few passages here and there.After first reading it in its entirety I thought
it was total rubbish.
So, as I said, you've not read the bible much then...
CosmicVibration wrote:
I now recognize
it’s just too deep and mysteriously complicated for me and the human intellect
to decipher.To unravel the many
mysteries it contains one needs to be somewhat enlightened.But if one is enlightened there’s no need to read
it.How’s that for a catch 22?
That's utter drivel and isn't an example of catch 22. It was written by humans for humans and the intellects that wrote it were no smarter (or no dumber) than us. Calling it "the word of god" doesn't mean that god played any part in its production. Aside from some very vague prophecies in the later books of both testaments (where I suspect the effects of the frankincense and myrrh were starting to kick-in) there are no deep mysteries in the bible, it is merely a collection Bronze and Iron Age writings that are open to ambiguous interpretation when read through modern eyes.
CosmicVibration wrote:
Probably wrong on my part but I was viewing royalty as more
of a lifestyle than a bloodline. sh*t,if I go back far enough maybe I’m ofroyal descent.Or most likely of a Gypsy clan, given my many different nationalities.
Go back far enough and everyone is of royal descent. Not knowing what your different nationalities are I couldn't begin to speculate which royal lines you are related to but if there are several nationalities in your bloodline then every one of those would be connected to the royalty of that nationality if you go back far enough. So it's most likely that you are a descendant of several different royal households, including that of the Romani people if you have Gypsy ancestors.
CosmicVibration wrote:
In any case, I did not know that Jesus was of royal descent.I learned something today..
Pleased to be of service.
Ahh… but it’s not utter drivel at all my friend.There is learned knowledge that is derived
from the egos outer self and there is inner intuitive wisdom that comes from the
omniscient Soul.The authors of the
Bible and many other such texts were able to access their higher states of
consciousness and pierce through the illusion of the material realm.
Granted some authors were more spiritually advanced than
others, thus being able to dive deeper and access greater pearls of actuality.Nonetheless, true intuitive wisdom is never
wrong.
St. John was probably one of the most advanced apostles and
I don’t think Revelation is prophetic.It’s
highly garbed in metaphor and it’s an account of his personal journey towards enlightenment.It also contains an entire yogic system used
by him and the other apostles. Instruction
on focus, mind control, breath control, as well as movement of energy throughout
the body opening up the seven chakras or “seals”.By the opening the seventh seal one
penetrates through the star of the east, the gateway into omnipresent
perception and ever new joy.
The word of god as referenced in the bible is not about the
book and the actual words printed in it.The word of God is the makeup of this material realm; it’s synonymous
with the Holy Ghost.
“The
Holy Symphonic Vibration that makes up all of vibratory creation is the Holy
Ghost. Think string theory here…”
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Dean wrote:
