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Topic ClosedJesus Christ! Fact or fiction?
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Poll Question: Jesus Christ! Fact or fiction?
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EddieRUKiddingVarese View Drop Down
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Points: 1802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:00
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I would be surprised if there were no aliens, illegal or otherwise, but as for fabulous aliens (i.e aliens with no basis in reality; mythical)... Like with the fabulous adventures of Jesus, I'm less likely to believe in those than believe in some pretty ordinary guy who may or may not have been named Jesus but developed a sort-of following of near biblical proportions. Alien vs. Predator vs. Jesus might make for a decent film. "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Jesus - Mathew 10:34).

That Jesus ascended into the heavens to be on a spaceship is not that uncommon an idea (maybe a tractor beam). And many think that Mohammed ascended into heaven on a winged horse, but could it not have been a Trojan rocketship?

LOLLOLLOL

Yes, my username has quite a few open interpretations. In this case, I am your messiah Clap

Now, why doesn't someone get me a Pepsi Embarrassed? 
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Points: 65236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:03
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Alien vs. Predator vs. Jesus

I saw this--  disappointing.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 1802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:05
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Alien vs. Predator vs. Jesus

I saw this--  disappointing.


Who kicked butt???
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:15
Originally posted by EddieRUKiddingVarese EddieRUKiddingVarese wrote:

Jesus didn't exist because he was a story made up by the Romans around 50ad, and there was no place called Nazareth at the time. And indeed no place called Bethlehem at the time. One of the writers of one of the Gospels refers to Jesus as a Nazarine, but this is misunderstood to assume Jesus and his family were from Nazareth, and Jesus and co were not because there was not such a place at the time. And whilst a few hundreds years BC there had been a town called Bethlehem as mentioned in the Jewish scriptures prophesizing the birth of the Messiah (the God of the Messianic Jews), the ignorance of the writers of Luke and Matthew tried to amend the failed attempt of Mark of appeasing the Messianic Jews by writing in the prophesies, so creating the nativity and locating it where there was nothing but barren stony ground.

The Passion is a typical Pagan god story of that time, Mark's account of the Jesus ministry is basically using the writing of Josephus' account of Titus Flavian in the Middle East and Palestine, and then Matthew and Luke bring in more typical Pagan god story to flesh out the nativity and try to keep the Messianic Jews happy. But the Jews never bought it.

What's your view............. Evil Smile
Joseph Atwill is believable with his ridiculous theory
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Points: 1774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:23
I believe that he was a real person, whether or not he was a spiritual figure is up for debate. 
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Points: 35693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:26
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

I think, therefore i am - i live therefore i also will die, 

am i asleep or am i dreaming,


Descartes and Poe, getting very philosophical.

Reminds me of the response to Garth Merenghi by Dean Learner on that train of thought.

"It's like that philosophical question: If a tree falls in the forest, and I'm not there, and it makes a sound, but I don't hear it, but someone records it and plays it back to me at a dinner party, does that mean I'm still in the forest? And if I am, then why can't I just take a piss in the garden rather than queuing for the toilet? And that's if the toilet even exists, I've been trying to use it all f*ing night. I'm starting to doubt the existence of the toilet quite frankly at this stage of the proceedings. Get a portaloo is what I'm saying. If you're going to have a party of that size, get a portaloo. 'Cause I don't want to spend my entire f*ing evening in the corridor. And if philosophy can solve those questions, then it's worth it. But thus far it can't. So I'm f'ing busting, and what's Plato doing about it? Nothing'" (Dean Learner talking to Garth Merenghi).

See 8:49 up for the deep thoughts....
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Points: 35693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:35
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I would be surprised if there were no aliens, illegal or otherwise, but as for fabulous aliens (i.e aliens with no basis in reality; mythical)... Like with the fabulous adventures of Jesus, I'm less likely to believe in those than believe in some pretty ordinary guy who may or may not have been named Jesus but developed a sort-of following of near biblical proportions. Alien vs. Predator vs. Jesus might make for a decent film. "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Jesus - Mathew 10:34).

That Jesus ascended into the heavens to be on a spaceship is not that uncommon an idea (maybe a tractor beam). And many think that Mohammed ascended into heaven on a winged horse, but could it not have been a Trojan rocketship?


LOLLOLLOL

Yes, my username has quite a few open interpretations. In this case, I am your messiah Clap

Now, why doesn't someone get me a Pepsi Embarrassed?


Yep, a fabulously false Messiah as evidenced by asking for a Pepsi cola. I might have believed you were my true Messiah if you had asked for a Coke, because Coke, it's the real thing, uh huh.

Coca Cola: Nectar of the gods, uh huh (TM).
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Points: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 16:59
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I would be surprised if there were no aliens, illegal or otherwise, but as for fabulous aliens (i.e aliens with no basis in reality; mythical)... Like with the fabulous adventures of Jesus, I'm less likely to believe in those than believe in some pretty ordinary guy who may or may not have been named Jesus but developed a sort-of following of near biblical proportions. Alien vs. Predator vs. Jesus might make for a decent film. "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Jesus - Mathew 10:34).

That Jesus ascended into the heavens to be on a spaceship is not that uncommon an idea (maybe a tractor beam). And many think that Mohammed ascended into heaven on a winged horse, but could it not have been a Trojan rocketship?


LOLLOLLOL

Yes, my username has quite a few open interpretations. In this case, I am your messiah Clap

Now, why doesn't someone get me a Pepsi Embarrassed?


Yep, a fabulously false Messiah as evidenced by asking for a Pepsi cola. I might have believed you were my true Messiah if you had asked for a Coke, because Coke, it's the real thing, uh huh.

Coca Cola: Nectar of the gods, uh huh (TM).


Jesus, the torture never stops! Angry

Did a vehicle fly along the mountains and find a place to park itself? Embarrassed
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

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Points: 35693 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 17:35
Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I would be surprised if there were no aliens, illegal or otherwise, but as for fabulous aliens (i.e aliens with no basis in reality; mythical)... Like with the fabulous adventures of Jesus, I'm less likely to believe in those than believe in some pretty ordinary guy who may or may not have been named Jesus but developed a sort-of following of near biblical proportions. Alien vs. Predator vs. Jesus might make for a decent film. "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Jesus - Mathew 10:34).

That Jesus ascended into the heavens to be on a spaceship is not that uncommon an idea (maybe a tractor beam). And many think that Mohammed ascended into heaven on a winged horse, but could it not have been a Trojan rocketship?


LOLLOLLOL

Yes, my username has quite a few open interpretations. In this case, I am your messiah Clap

Now, why doesn't someone get me a Pepsi Embarrassed?


Yep, a fabulously false Messiah as evidenced by asking for a Pepsi cola. I might have believed you were my true Messiah if you had asked for a Coke, because Coke, it's the real thing, uh huh.

Coca Cola: Nectar of the gods, uh huh (TM).


Jesus, the torture never stops! Angry


Did a vehicle fly along the mountains and find a place to park itself? Embarrassed


Did Jesus mutter to himself "Jesus, the torture never stops" on his way to Calvary? Which is in poor taste, I know, as my non-almighty father taught me that it's poor manners to answer a question with another question.

No, the vehicle was washed up on the mountain due to the flood, but it wasn't an Ark, it was an Arkura. Erm....

Edited by Logan - January 19 2017 at 17:40
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Thatfabulousalien View Drop Down
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Points: 1409 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 17:48
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Thatfabulousalien Thatfabulousalien wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I would be surprised if there were no aliens, illegal or otherwise, but as for fabulous aliens (i.e aliens with no basis in reality; mythical)... Like with the fabulous adventures of Jesus, I'm less likely to believe in those than believe in some pretty ordinary guy who may or may not have been named Jesus but developed a sort-of following of near biblical proportions. Alien vs. Predator vs. Jesus might make for a decent film. "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Jesus - Mathew 10:34).

That Jesus ascended into the heavens to be on a spaceship is not that uncommon an idea (maybe a tractor beam). And many think that Mohammed ascended into heaven on a winged horse, but could it not have been a Trojan rocketship?


LOLLOLLOL

Yes, my username has quite a few open interpretations. In this case, I am your messiah Clap

Now, why doesn't someone get me a Pepsi Embarrassed?


Yep, a fabulously false Messiah as evidenced by asking for a Pepsi cola. I might have believed you were my true Messiah if you had asked for a Coke, because Coke, it's the real thing, uh huh.

Coca Cola: Nectar of the gods, uh huh (TM).


Jesus, the torture never stops! Angry


Did a vehicle fly along the mountains and find a place to park itself? Embarrassed


Did Jesus mutter to himself "Jesus, the torture never stops" on his way to Calvary? Which is in poor taste, I know, as my non-almighty father taught me that it's poor manners to answer a question with another question.

No, the vehicle was washed up on the mountain due to the flood, but it wasn't an Ark, it was an Arkura. Erm....

Lol, making Zappa references is unintentionally making it more offensive LOL

Now, as I'm Jesus. Where the hell am I? Confused

also, why does everything I see look like this?
Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV.

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Points: 17028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 18:12
He was real!
eBay
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Points: 1802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 18:31
Man invents God.
God says nothing.
Man speaks for God.
God says nothing.
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Points: 1395 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 19:32

Although much different than what most people think, Jesus the son of man as well as Jesus the Son of God was and is real.

Control over nature, such as calming storms, walking on water, producing fish and bread out of thin air is mere child’s play to a fully realized master.

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Points: 1802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2017 at 20:15
Jesus and Krishna were called both a God and the Son of God.
Both was sent from heaven to earth in the form of a man.
Both were called Savior, and the second person of the Trinity.
Their adoptive human father was a carpenter.
A spirit or ghost was their actual father.
Krishna and Jesus were of royal descent.
Both were visited at birth by wise men and shepherds, guided by a star.
Angels in both cases issued a warning that the local dictator planned to kill the baby and had issued a decree for his assassination. The parents fled. Mary and Joseph stayed in Muturea; Krishna's parents stayed in Mathura.
Both Yeshua and Krishna withdrew to the wilderness as adults, and fasted.
Both were identified as "the seed of the woman bruising the serpent's head."
Jesus was called "the lion of the tribe of Judah." Krishna was called "the lion of the tribe of Saki."
Both claimed: "I am the Resurrection."
Both referred to themselves having existed before their birth on earth.
Both were "without sin."
Both were god-men: being considered both human and divine.
They were both considered omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.
Both performed many miracles, including the healing of disease. One of the first miracles that both performed was to make a leper whole. Each cured "all manner of diseases."
Both cast out indwelling demons, and raised the dead.
Both selected disciples to spread his teachings.
Both were meek, and merciful. Both were criticized for associating with sinners.
Both encountered a Gentile woman at a well.
Both celebrated a last supper. Both forgave his enemies.
Both descended into Hell, and were resurrected.

Too much similarities in my personal view to just call it "coincidence".

There's an ugly little wasel 'bout three-foot nine
Face puffed up from cryin' 'n lyin'
'Cause her sweet little hubby's
Suckin' prong part time
(In the name of The Lord)
Get a clue, little shrew
Oh yeah, oh yeah
Jesus thinks you're a jerk
Did he really choose Tammy to do His Work?
Robertson says that he's The One
Oh sure he is,
If Armageddon
Is your idea of family fun,
An' he's got some planned for you!
(Now, tell me that ain't true)


Edited by EddieRUKiddingVarese - January 19 2017 at 20:18
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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2017 at 00:14
^That's interesting. I know some other mythological parallels, but I'm going to refrain from putting it out there because it's been a long long time since I researched it. I actuallly think he was both mythological and historical. I assume he was part of a mystery cult whose leaders practiced ritual self sacrifice by means of testimonial meant to lead to martyrdom. The first we have any name for is John the Baptist, who also had his own followers even to this day. The next we know of and can put a name to is Jesus. Then there were apostles and saints that followed, getting themselves martyred at hands of the Romans. Many of those are also celebrated in a suspiciously worshipful manner for a monotheistic religion. In other words, I see it such that all of them were seeking the same salvation/transformation, and any one of them could potentially have been regarded as divine, either right then at the time or post hoc, depending on how the stories got shaped or on which stories became more favored over time.






Edited by HackettFan - January 20 2017 at 00:20
A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Points: 8581 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2017 at 01:42
A highly recommended read re: theological parallels. The name changes, the script, not so much.

Bandcamp
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2017 at 03:20
Belive whatever you like, just don't try to force others to do the same and don't start thinking you are better than those who belive diffrent. 

And don't walk on water when I am fish'ng.


Edited by tamijo - January 20 2017 at 03:22
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 1802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2017 at 04:45
Adopting Christianity was a very smart move by the Romans. The Roman Empire become the Catholic Roman Empire , and Caesar became the Pontiff, and the Empire spread across the entire Globe indifferent of boarders and political administrations. Very Smart.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2017 at 06:09
Originally posted by EddieRUKiddingVarese EddieRUKiddingVarese wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

No human being can come back to life after being nailed to wood........sorry, I just can't buy into it.....

Very good point
Conspiracy theories abound to explain this, there are even some atheist ones that speculate on how a person who may or may not have existed in the flesh (whether divine or not) can 'return' from the dead. The simplest (and thus most logical) is that such a character didn't die on the cross but was taken down before death ensued, but there are many variants on that depending on how much anyone truly wants to believe. 

One that amuses me centres around the idea of jewish excommunication [herem] where heretics [minim] are excluded from the community and ignored as though they never existed or are dead (but not mourned). This particular conspiracy requires Lazarus to be an excommunicated heretic who was mourned by his family so Jesus (as a rabbi) returned him to the community (i.e., life) as an act of pardon (forgiveness - a strong theme in early christianity). This sets the precedent for Jesus' subsequent "resurrection" following his excommunication from the jewish religion by the local priests and elders. Much of what Jesus is reported to have been preaching was heretical to judaism so his excommunication (rather than execution) is not that fanciful. The crucifixion then becomes a symbolic execution rather than a physical one (the jewish tradition of placing a stone on the hearse if a heretic died parallels the stone on Jesus' tomb for example) and therefore the resurrection would also be symbolic rather than an actual zombie reanimation of a corpse. These conspiracies often uses the quran to support this view as the text referring to Jesus' resurrection says: "but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, ..." - in other words a cover-up.

Todd raised another point regarding ritual self-sacrifice as a means of martyrdom. Like in the christian religion, back then suicide was regarded as a sin in judaism so (while not heretical per se) it brings shame upon the families of those who take their own lives. Covering-up such suicides after the event, simply denying it was suicide, or proclaiming they were not of sound-mind is not uncommon now and wasn't then. In contrast, judaism had a somewhat mixed view of martydom but in general regarded it as mostly positive since it was an act that honoured the name of their god. Therefore the invention of a martyr scenario in such cases is a relatively simple way of denying a suicide (ritual or not). 'Suicide by Roman' (akin to the modern 'suicide by cop'), is something else to throw into the pot with regard to self-inflicted martyrdom as the gospels state that Jesus could have saved himself but chose not to. [Coincidentally, I was listening to a re-run of Andy Hamilton's Old Harry's Game (2002 Christmas Special) on the radio the other day where he (as Satan) posits that all the martyred saints were hastily covered-up suicides.]

Of course in fiction anything is possible.


Edited by Dean - January 20 2017 at 06:12
What?
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2017 at 08:13
Dean, you put too much thought into everything. 

You are so not 'Murican Tongue
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