Russia has gone insane.....

micky wrote: good question.. as you know... the Saudi's aren't exactly on our X-mas card lists here.  Who knows.. we'd probably throw in a complementary smart bomb. Saudi Oil?  we have have plenty here... and an ascendent political movement that would have an orgasm at the chance to go green. in all seriousness.. who knows... this isn't the cold war anymore. That applies to us.. and to the Russians. There are those.. who think regime changes in teh middle east are fundamental to solving the existential problem of radical Islam. It's hate is directed at us.. it's causes are rooted in the 1%'rs there.

It's not all about oil though. The point is the strategic relationship between Saudi and the US in containing Iran, and their biggest ally Syria who happen to be strategic allies of Russia.

In short we are already at war with Russia, by proxy.

^^^ If you choose to believe that the so called 'moderate' rebels are a clearly defined fighting force with one goal in mind; removing Assad then yes that is the state of play. In reality the situation is more complex. There are no clean hands in this fight, and loyalties are split across the board, and various rebel factions also oppose each other. We also know that weapons sent to 'moderate' forces have fallen into the hands of ISIS and that rebel fighters have also deserted the FSA and joined the ranks of ISIS and Al Nusra. Lets not forget that Al Nusra are the Syrian wing of Al Queada and up until very recently we were arming them too.

It is a complete mess and a dangerous one. Russia's sole mission aim is to keep Assad in power. The west want him gone and so do ISIS, so I suspect Putin beieves the best way to tackle ISIS in Syria and prevent them from making their way to Russia to carry out attacks is to confront them with Syrian forces rather than let the 'moderates' deal with them. Moderates who also want Assad gone, so by definition have to be Russia's enemy and will be dealt with accordingly. I don't see Obama having any coherant strategy here. Washington is out of its depth. You only have to watch the senate hearings in recent weeks of top military generals being challenged on why we can't impose no fly zones over Syria and they are telling the committee that to do so would mean actual direct war with Russia and Syria and should therefore be avoided. Politicians need to listen the more level headed in the military and take note.

.....Is this supposed to be a shocking/new headline? 

Edited by JJLehto - October 09 2016 at 11:56

micky wrote: JJLehto wrote: .....Is this supposed to be a shocking/new headline?  though it should have been...  Putin has gone insane... god bless the Russians. but that is a WHOLE other ball of discussion wax....

micky wrote: no doubt.. I'm not disagreeing with you on any of that. Incredibly complex.. especially it ones figures in Turkey's involvement hahaha. My point is.. a proxy war with Russia?  That is not what I see we are fighting.. to this point our 'problem' with the Russians is not supporting us against ISIL and making that fight more difficult than it is already.  Two completely different wars being fought here... where it is complex is obviously how they are intertwined and interrelated.

As for the OP, yeah I have feared the storm clouds have been gathering for years. 

micky wrote: taken from a semi-pro historian.. let me tell you what the general reputation of the accuracy of of wikipedia is among historians.  It sucks... granted the QC has improved... but still. I see the omission of Turkey and anything wiki says is lost in the ether... wanting Assad to go down is not the same as being an active participant by proxy.. Ignore me.. but have seen NO evidence we are flighting the Rusians there.. by proxy or otherwise.  We have done nothing to facilitate Assad's removal.. other than perhaps encouraging Turkey to support... then again.. don't we feel the same for the Turks as we do the Russians... they are dithering around with Assad while ignoring the fight against ISIL.  Perhaps I'm just dense.. but see this as 2 conflicts distinct as far as objectives.. but obviously intertwined and related. That is where it is comlex. All the powers.. have their own specific objectives.  Ours and the Russians.. are not the same.. thus the confict.. diverges.

micky wrote: JJLehto wrote: As for the OP, yeah I have feared the storm clouds have been gathering for years.  Russia's assertion of itself over the old USSR, especially for those who try to break free (georgia, ukraine) then it's direct annexation attempt of Ukraine (and like I said, I dont believe they had no influence in triggering the entire mess as justification to invade)  I have long believed Putin had hopes of restoring the Russian empire, and when I learned a couple years ago he was influence by this madman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin I knew it wasn't good.  I know you are more financially minded then myself. What is your take on the Russian financial troubles and the state of its economy. I figured this latest stunt was perhaps just something to keep the masses distracted...

Edited by JJLehto - October 09 2016 at 12:43