Who is your favourite revolutionary?

TGM: Orb wrote: The formatting in your posts is so horrendously messy that I don't really want to quote it.

The formatting of my reply is the most honest and careful one, I take good care of addressing each poinT individually, so there's no excuse to avoid some issues that may be lost in a large post

TGM: Orb wrote: Yep, Hitler was deeply inconsistent but Drexler's NSDAP which Hitler took over was intensely anti-Marxist and anti-Communism and anti-Semitism were more or less the only consistent political views he held. National Socialism is reliant on ethnic rather than class struggle and hence IS NOT MARXIST. A government enacting the protection of already-dominant groups (men & Aryans) against economic competition is de facto reactionary and anti-Marxist. As is the dissolution of trade unions and the suppression of wages. I take it you know that the 1920 manifesto was written when Hitler wasn't leader of the NSDAP and was co-written by Drexler and others, who were driven to differentiate the DAP from the Volkspartei. The 25 points also advocates the strengthening of the middle class and all of the 'socialist' policies you have picked out are framed by racial protectionism.

Of course, it was German Socialism, which is different to the one in URSS, China, Perú, Cambodia, Cuba, etc.

BTW: Hitler's rise was supported by the DAP, which despite being nationalist, was clearly socialist

A good example of this is the Gobierno Revolucionario de las Fuerzas Armadas of Juan Velazco Alvarado in Perú, clearly communist but atthe same time Nationalist and anti-Chilean

TGM: Orb wrote: The Agrarian policy you keep bringing up was largely directed at the rights of non-citizens to own land and the seizure of land owned by enemies of the state, be they Jews or Marxists. Hitler privatised the railways along with many other state assets and had an extremely cosy relationship with German business as well as a very low-tax regime.

Hitler believed in a 1,000 years Reich, his priorities were not economic, he directed his efforts in the antisemitism and the war, the economic changes would came later, but of course the war changed his plans

TGM: Orb wrote: Beyond that, the Nazis grew out of right wing, reactionary parties (the Vaterlandspartei having split into the DAP and the Volkspartei), were embraced internationally by the right wing press and challenged internationally by Communists and Marxists. If there was that much kinship between the two groups, why did they not get along?

Please man, told you before, the DAP was Nationalist, but at the same time left winged

TGM: Orb wrote: A genocide is an attempt to destroy an ethnic group as a cultural unit. You've largely mentioned random nationalities rather than ethnic groups, which is silly.

FALSE: EXTERMINATING NATIONAL GROUPS IS ALSO GENOCIDE

Article II:  In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group; 

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; 

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; 

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; 

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Silly is to correct somebody without knowing the definition of genocide

But:

- Romani Gypsies are a nation rather than an ethic group?

- Chechens are exclusively a nation?

[quote=TGM: Orb]I take it that you know that over 100,000 Jews were massacred by the White Army (especially in the Ukraine) during the Russian Civil War. Jews were legally discriminated against by the Tsars, whose secret police were responsible for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Soviets were the only faction to come out of the Russian Civil War as protecting the rights of Jews, which doesn't excuse Stalin's later coded removal of Jewish intellectuals but still - the democratic gov'ts of Europe wanted to install nationalist anti-semites instead of Marxists in Russia in 1919.[/quote]

So...Previous acts of genocide justify Stalin's antisemitism?

Soviets helped Jews?

In what dimension?

Following the Soviet invasion of Poland, Stalin began a policy of relocating Jews to the Jewish Autonomous Oblast and other parts of Siberia. Throughout the war, similar movements were executed in regions considered vulnerable to Nazi invasion with the various target ethnic groups of the Nazi genocide. When these populations reached their destinations, work was oftentimes arduous and they were subjected to poor conditions due to lack of resources caused by the war effort.

In November 1948, Soviet authorities launched a campaign to liquidate what was left of Jewish culture. The leading members of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee were arrested. They were charged with treason, bourgeois nationalism and planning to set up a Jewish republic in Crimea to serve American interests. During the night of 12–13 August 1952, remembered as the "Night of the Murdered Poets" (Ночь казнённых поэтов), thirteen of the most prominent Yiddish writers of the Soviet Union were executed on the orders of Stalin. Among the victims were Peretz Markish, David Bergelson and Itzik Fefer. In a 1 December 1952 Politburo session, Stalin announced: "Every Jewish nationalist is the agent of the American intelligence service. Jewish nationalists think that their nation was saved by the USA. . . They think they are indebted to the Americans. Among doctors, there are many Jewish nationalists.

A notable campaign to quietly remove Jews from positions of authority within the state security services was carried out in 1952–1953. The Russian historians Zhores and Roy Medvedev wrote that according to [MVD] General Sudoplatov, "simultaneously all Jews were removed from the leadership of the security services, even those in very senior positions. In February the anti-Jewish expulsions were extended to regional branches of the MGB. A secret directive was distributed to all regional directorates of the MGB on 22 February, ordering that all Jewish employees of the MGB be dismissed immediately, regardless of rank, age or service record. . . .[39]". The outside world was not ignorant of these developments, and even the leading members of the Communist Party USA complained about the situation. In the memoir Being Red, the American writer and prominent Communist Howard Fast recalls a meeting with Soviet writer and World Peace Congress delegate Alexander Fadeyev during this time. Fadeyev insisted that "There is no anti-Semitism in the Soviet Union", despite the evidence "that at least eight leading Jewish figures in the Red Army and in government had been arrested on what appeared to be trumped-up charges. Yiddish-language newspapers had been suppressed. Schools that taught Hebrew had been closed.