Who is your favourite revolutionary? |
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:00 | ||
Communism didn't existed yet, Evil Socialism is destroyed, but who cares? The fruits of that export of Democracy you can see everywhere now...
Edited by Svetonio - September 18 2015 at 15:01 |
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A Person
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2008 Location: __ Status: Offline Points: 65760 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:09 | ||
If you didn't notice in the ideology thread, a good portion of the forum is left leaning. No one is saying communism is evil. Lots of people do however tend to dislike assassins, terrorists and dictators who are responsible for millions of their own peoples deaths. It's a weird quirk some of us have.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:12 | ||
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:18 | ||
Good luck with getting an answer to that one Steve
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What?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:20 | ||
Yes, I know. I just forgot myself.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:42 | ||
It seems important to point out that idiocy is idiocy, but one's forehead does get bloody from banging it into the same brick wall.
I attended a forum last night (in person not on line) discussing the removal of confederate symbols from the public sphere. The consensus was that they should be confined to public spheres like museums, where they could function as educational opportunities. Of course there was a person who got up and ranted about heritage. Everyone agreed that it was important to maintain a dialogue with those who hold, um, "less-informed" (i.e. racist) opinions, but what no one could answer was the question of how to talk to fools and morons. I am not sure there is an answer to that one.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:45 | ||
^
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 15:52 | ||
I still don't get what's wrong with a piece of fabric. I guarantee sales of confederate flags only went up after the whathaveyou, because certain people realized how much it annoys leftists.
Anybody remember the days when "liberalism" included Voltaire's ideals? It wasn't even that long ago. |
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:09 | ||
That piece of fabric is a symbol of a nation that existed to oppress and enslave an enormous number of people. Symbols matter, as they signal to others that you approve of the ideas those symbols represent. I am probably less familiar with Voltaire's ideals than you are - can you please remind me which one of them said it's okay to celebrate racism and oppression? I do recall that he was willing to defend ideas which he did not agree with, but that is not the same as honoring hatred.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:13 | ||
It's been shown that many, many people understand the confederate flag differently than that. I wouldn't presume that everybody shares my interpretation. The modern obsession with calling everybody racist over minor, non-race-related things is absurd. |
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:25 | ||
Your comment regarding understanding of the confederate flag is inaccurate. People may say that they understand the confederate flag differently than that, but if you explore their belief it turns out to be code for nostalgia for a world where people with their skin color got to oppress people with a different skin color. The confederacy was founded on the principle that black people should be enslaved. The defense of states' rights and a "southern" way of life is a post-civil war construct that enabled white people to disguise their racism by pretending that the confederacy and the civil war were not what they in fact were. Take your argument to its logical conclusion. Would you fly a swastika? why not, if it's just a piece of fabric? The answers to these queries are so obvious that you can treat them as a rhetorical questions.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:31 | ||
As a non-American and not a historian, can some one tell me what the confederate flag is actually from, and what it is for today? because I assume, naively perhaps, that it was never a national flag before, during or after your civil war. Which means it was probably a battle flag of some kind, and of the loosing side at that. This gives it a tad more significance than being just a bit of fabric...
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What?
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:39 | ||
It was a national flag, the flag adopted by the Confederate States of America after they seceded from the United States (note, according to Wiki, it was the third and last flag adopted by the CSA). As such, it was the symbol of the Confederacy, which was founded to protect the institution of slavery from abolitionists. It has continued to represent white supremacy, which is why it is such a powerful symbol and one that conveys a strong and repugnant message. And no, it's not just a piece of fabric.
Edited by emigre80 - September 18 2015 at 16:43 |
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:41 | ||
From Wikipedia: Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:46 | ||
After 600,000 northern and southern soldiers died in deadly battles, the southern states were allowed to keep variants of the confederate flag by the now solidified U.S. government, in order to placate the southern states and let them use the flags for memorials and the like. The confederate flag has come to be viewed as a badge of bigotry because of what it represented in the past but also because it was commandeered by white supremacists groups and other bigots such as Nazi skinheads in European countries where the WWII Nazi flag is outlawed.
Edited by SteveG - September 19 2015 at 15:28 |
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:50 | ||
^ "Nazi fag"?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:51 | ||
^Fixed.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:52 | ||
thanks. but it did make me laugh. |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20604 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:53 | ||
Me too.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 25 2015 Location: kentucky Status: Offline Points: 2223 |
Posted: September 18 2015 at 16:57 | ||
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