Who is your favourite revolutionary?

that should be "lest"

Dean wrote: One bullet = 17 million dead + 20 million casualties.

Do you REALLY think that the whole WWI was based in only the first bullet? As a historian I must say: nope, its not that simple.

GKR wrote: Dean wrote: One bullet = 17 million dead + 20 million casualties. Do you REALLY think that the whole WWI was based in only the first bullet? As a historian I must say: nope, its not that simple.

Dean wrote: GKR wrote: Dean wrote: One bullet = 17 million dead + 20 million casualties. Do you REALLY think that the whole WWI was based in only the first bullet? As a historian I must say: nope, its not that simple. No I REALLY didn't think that and I know full well it's not that simple but the equation is still valid. As an Engineer, I couldn't give a crap what historians think.

As Adam Gopnik noted, the Archduke and his wife “were notably unmourned: Ferdinand, a difficult and unpopular figure, was no J.F.K.  The only important personage who seemed really offended was Kaiser Wilhelm, of Germany, who had a class interest in protecting Germanic royalty from Slavic terrorists.”

My argument is that the assassination provided the Austro-Hungarian empire (egged on by the Germans) the excuse they needed to take on the Serbs. In which case Princip's action totally backfired.

 

Is there a reason that engineers and historians can't be simultaneously right?

GKR wrote: Dean wrote: GKR wrote: Dean wrote: One bullet = 17 million dead + 20 million casualties. Do you REALLY think that the whole WWI was based in only the first bullet? As a historian I must say: nope, its not that simple. No I REALLY didn't think that and I know full well it's not that simple but the equation is still valid. As an Engineer, I couldn't give a crap what historians think.  So you shouldnt talk about history at all. Go back to your machines.

durrrrrrrr only historians know anything about history

emigre80 wrote: Dean wrote: GKR wrote: Dean wrote: One bullet = 17 million dead + 20 million casualties. Do you REALLY think that the whole WWI was based in only the first bullet? As a historian I must say: nope, its not that simple. No I REALLY didn't think that and I know full well it's not that simple but the equation is still valid. As an Engineer, I couldn't give a crap what historians think.  As Adam Gopnik noted, the Archduke and his wife “were notably unmourned: Ferdinand, a difficult and unpopular figure, was no J.F.K.  The only important personage who seemed really offended was Kaiser Wilhelm, of Germany, who had a class interest in protecting Germanic royalty from Slavic terrorists.” My argument is that the assassination provided the Austro-Hungarian empire (egged on by the Germans) the excuse they needed to take on the Serbs. In which case Princip's action totally backfired.   Is there a reason that engineers and historians can't be simultaneously right?

Yes, but my point is that you cant blame a bullet for the whole thing. Europe was boiling back there. We can even argue that if not one thign, another would trigger the whole thing. Look at the growing economic rivalries. There was plenty reasons for wars.

We cant see history with scape goats, thats my point.

GKR wrote: emigre80 wrote: Dean wrote: GKR wrote: Dean wrote: One bullet = 17 million dead + 20 million casualties. Do you REALLY think that the whole WWI was based in only the first bullet? As a historian I must say: nope, its not that simple. No I REALLY didn't think that and I know full well it's not that simple but the equation is still valid. As an Engineer, I couldn't give a crap what historians think.  As Adam Gopnik noted, the Archduke and his wife “were notably unmourned: Ferdinand, a difficult and unpopular figure, was no J.F.K.  The only important personage who seemed really offended was Kaiser Wilhelm, of Germany, who had a class interest in protecting Germanic royalty from Slavic terrorists.” My argument is that the assassination provided the Austro-Hungarian empire (egged on by the Germans) the excuse they needed to take on the Serbs. In which case Princip's action totally backfired.   Is there a reason that engineers and historians can't be simultaneously right? Yes, but my point is that you cant blame a bullet for the whole thing. Europe was boiling back there. We can even argue that if not one thign, another would trigger the whole thing. Look at the growing economic rivalries. There was plenty reasons for wars. We cant see history with scape goats, thats my point.

Edited by emigre80 - September 17 2015 at 14:15

Triceratopsoil wrote: Germany wanting a war is recent revisionist history.  Bankers wanted a war.

emigre80 wrote: dr wu23 wrote: Svetonio wrote: dr wu23 wrote: Politics is not one of my strong suits but it seems to me that half of the ones listed in the poll aren't even true revolutionaries by definition (primarily associated with politics..?)....at least based on what I read and the list at Wiki.....but then maybe I just don't know who they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary   So since we are using loose definitions here I vote for Louis Pasteur because I love what he did for milk and other dairy products...as well as his medical discoveries. Thank you for posting the link but at that wiki page, although it's not a bad article, the list is not really valid because Gavrilo Princip is not on that list.     As I said I'm no expert in politics but I looked him up and he's an assassin  not a 'revolutionary' by anyone's standard. By your criteria John Wilkes Booth would also be a revolutionary since he also assassinated an important leader. But if you need a better explanation , I'm sure someone here will provide it. Princip is, in fact, a terrorist and assassin and your explanation is spot on.

Gavrilo Princip couldn't be a terrorist in 1914 because such a "profession" wasn't existed at the time. Or, if Gavrilo was a terrorist, then whole Austro-Hungarian Empire was a terrorist state something like ISIL now; because there high in the Bosnian mountains, after annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina by Austro-Hungaria, the Austro-Hungarian officers had have the orders (luckily, those pedantic Autro-Hungarians officers were saved all the orders same as the photos of killings what I posted here but it's ereased now) from official Vienna to terrorize and to kill as much as they can of Bosnian Orthodox Slavs, i.e. Serbs, very poor and un-armed peasant men and woman just because they weren't in mood to be baptised at all as the Roman-Catholic as they were keeping to be Orthodox Christians over the centuries ( Ottoman Empire let them over 400 years to be just what they wanted to be).

Edited by Svetonio - September 18 2015 at 03:00

The best thing about this discussion&poll is the top two: