Why did Roger Waters never get beyond The Wall? |
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 20:42 | |
Cooee! Roger Waters albums Amused to death had Jeff Beck and Pros and cons of hitchhiking had Eric Clapton! The Dark Elf help please oh wait! No balance you said? To the naughty corner for you!
Edited by Kati - July 04 2015 at 20:46 |
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aglasshouse
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 27 2014 Location: riding the MOAB Status: Offline Points: 1505 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 11:56 | |
Maybe because Waters thought that his fellow bandmates were lesser than him? The Final Cut was basically just a solo album.
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AZF
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 1079 |
Posted: July 04 2015 at 04:06 | |
So Rick sat in the studio -he would arrive exactly on time, which was very unusual, and stay to the bitter end every night. One day Ezrin said to me - he was slightly irked by this brooding presence very occasionally going "I don't like that" - "Why's Rick here again?" I said, "Don't you get it? He's putting in the time to prove he's a record producer. You talk to him about it." So he did. After that Rick never came to another session, unless he was directly asked to do keyboard tracks. And he became almost incapable of playing any keyboards anyway. It was a nightmare. I think that was the beginning of the end. Gilmour: (Sigh) I did not go along with it. I went out to dinner with Rick after Roger had said this to him and said if he wanted to stay in the band I would support him in that. I did point out to Rick that he hadn't contributed anything of any value whatsoever to the album and that I was not over-happy with him myself - he did very very little; an awful lot of the keyboard parts are done by me, Roger, Bob Ezrin, Michael Kamen, Freddie Mandell - but his position in the band to me was sacrosanct. My view, then and now is, if people didn't like the way it was going it was their option to leave. I didn't consider that it was their option to throw people out. Waters: I had a meeting with Dave in my garden in the South of France at which Dave said, "Let's get rid of Nick too." I bet he doesn't remember that. How inconvenient would that be? I went "Ooh, Dave, Nick's my friend. Steady!" http://www.pinkfloydz.com/artmojodec99thewall.htm |
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: July 03 2015 at 23:18 | |
listen to the most perfect crescendo at 2.11 vocals added and continued by the saxophone xxxx
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: July 03 2015 at 23:13 | |
Waters went beyond the wall into the final cut (last Waters Floyd Album) and here is an example: Pink Floyd Final Cut (6) - The Gunner's Dream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIJN6WWf3Rg&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwPrHo40qr1-pvZEZcejDeOw&index=82
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Kati
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: July 03 2015 at 23:10 | |
The only lyrical track is sad to be honest one really misses Waters and it also feels unfinished, anyway I am so happy they finally released another album thus good or bad, I'll take it
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RockHound
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 03 2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 664 |
Posted: July 03 2015 at 22:36 | |
Waters' solo output turned deeply acerbic and is so intensely political he gives people a lot to disagree with, especially as he descended into what a lot of people consider intense antisemitism. I think Pros and Cons flew over too many people's heads to be highly successful, and Radio KAOS suffered from some dodgy ideas coupled with some poor timing as the wall fell and nuclear threats no longer seemed so immediate. Amused to Death is, IMHO, by far his best solo effort, but he exudes a level of anger and complaint that doesn't exactly attract people. Plus, the presentation turns muddy during the last few tracks.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12732 |
Posted: July 01 2015 at 22:34 | |
Well, I believe David did a lot to help out Rick... just perhaps he was a bit late. For some reason he didn't during the time of The Wall (though we don't really know that, do we? We only know that Waters made hell with him and fired him, why Gilmour didn't or couldn't stop it, we don't know), but then he got Wright back on his feet for A Momentary Lapse of Reason. How much of it was for marketing and how much was for friendship, we don't know either, but Gilmour strikes me like a person who does cares for his friends... Rick was actually barely present on Momentary Lapse, as I understand it, but on the tour he did come back, and he was again working nicely for The Division Bell. And even if Wright still had doubts about himself, David did invite him for the semi-acoustic shows he did (releases on David Gilmour on Concert), and then for the tour of On An Island, in which I believe Rick was actually surprised at the reactions the public showed for him. I believe Gilmour had him on tour to help him out (of course, so that Rick would help Gilmour out, too). |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: July 01 2015 at 06:04 | |
I miss the 'music' in Waters' solo output. Too much talk-singing with little or no room for any musical spaces in between. When he broke with Floyd it seems as if there no longer were anyone around to point out the need for him to shut up....if only for a couple of minutes.
I rather dig a couple of tunes off Pros and Cons and Amused to Death, but they're funnily also the ones that open up and let the music breathe. Loved his recent The Wall tour though, which I caught in Parken, Copenhagen - a stadium notorious for it's awful acoustics. This gig though proved just how wonderful of a sound it's possible to achieve on such a venue. It really set the bar. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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AZF
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 1079 |
Posted: July 01 2015 at 05:28 | |
Re: The Final Cut. "If these songs weren't good enough for 'The Wall' why are they good enough now?" Get off the blow, Gilmour and I don't know, work to make the songs better. Yes, Roger, that means co-crediting other people!
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AZF
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 1079 |
Posted: July 01 2015 at 05:26 | |
I still think "The Endless River" has been the best Pink Floyd album without Roger Waters, and I'd even put it above "Animals" and "The Wall".
It does seem Roger's writing dried up. "The Pros And Cons of Hitch-hiking" was also demoed around the time he'd demoed The Wall, so that's both late 70's. "Radio Kaos" had a germ of a good idea but it was let down by no real musical ideas and terrible writing. "Amused To Death" was a return to form though. But then Roger just... Drifted off. I haven't heard his opera, not really an opera person. And although his recent tour of "The Wall" was successful, it's still material from the late 70's. I'm hoping when he finally gets around to releasing "Homeland" it'll show there's life beyond "The Wall". But what Pink Floyd really needed was a manager to point out how well they worked together, and how the band was bigger than the four of them. So that meant Roger winding himself back in a bit and David being a bit more open to ideas. The fact they didn't rally round and help Rick Wright when he was having problems is quite sad. He deserved better than to be frozen out. I'm not expecting Pink Floyd to become all touchy-feely. Frankly, that would be terrifying! But they could have done more. Where's a music based Jeremy Kyle series when you need one!
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Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10232 |
Posted: July 01 2015 at 04:11 | |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Posted: July 01 2015 at 02:25 | |
Don't most artists consider their most recent work their best? Also, Waters has been working on new projects like that opera about the French Revolution... has anyone here seen it? I also think he contributed with a song to a film soundtrack. |
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Chris S
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: June 30 2015 at 23:49 | |
Amused To Death was as good as anything Floyd put out, but excuse the pun...the sum of all parts meant that even Wright, Gilmour and Mason would not have had massive success either in a solo capacity, I don't think. Waters for me the key ingredient in Floyd. I remember him saying during the KAOS tour he was battling to fill 5000 seats while Floyd playing next door were filling 50-100K stadiums. Brand loyalty as a previous post says. His solo work all three in fact great albums.
When you listen to The Final Cut you realize even without Wright how beautiful an album it is. As much as Waters may want to consider it a solo album it is very much the finished article under Pink Floyd
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20624 |
Posted: June 30 2015 at 22:51 | |
Frankly I have never been a fan of Water's vocals or bass playing....I think they are both very average.
He has come up with some good lyrics and concepts over the Floyd years and that's where he was always the best imo. Floyd was a total group effort musically where the sum of the parts was greater than the whole (similar to the Beatles) and after they split up it was obvious. For me they have not aged well and I don't play Floyd often these days, and Water's solo music has been very uninteresting to me.
Edited by dr wu23 - June 30 2015 at 22:52 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12732 |
Posted: June 30 2015 at 22:41 | |
I always thought Amused to Death was very well received. And the tours he's done since the late 90's have been very succesful, I believe. However, I do think he needed the equilibrium the other members of Pink Floyd brought to the table, and indeed the sound of both Wright and Gilmour is missing in his solo work.
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t d wombat
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 14 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 504 |
Posted: June 30 2015 at 18:21 | |
I confess I'm a Wish You Were Hereist. Dark Side is a fabulous album sonically but it was never a real favourite of mine. Quite like Amused but for mine it needs to sit beside the other two as something of an addenda if it is to be considered one of his or PF's best. Then again I quite liked Division Bell and Final Cut. OK, they don't really say anything new but I still enjoy(ed) them. Not, and this is simply my probably worthless opinion only, as unimportant as e.g. the last few Genesis albums. |
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Andrew B
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
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t d wombat
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 14 2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 504 |
Posted: June 30 2015 at 17:58 | |
In their ability to recreate Floyd both past and present post Floyd was still a great band live. Sadly for me, i've never seen Waters solo live but going by his DVDs it would be a treat.
Recorded output is a bit hit and miss for me but really how many old farts are still producing the goods ? At least goods that are as innovative as their youthful output. Some yes but most seem to get all pop schmaltzy on us or settle for technique (not necessarily a bad thing) rather than new ideas. Hell, it cannot be easy to be bustling in the hedgerow when you are in your 70s. |
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Andrew B
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:29 | |
Because the band name has the magic. PF post-Waters tried to revive the sonic adventures of their 1970's albums and the visual tricks from the live shows (flying pig, flying bed above the stadium which ignites fireworks once reaching the stage, the biggest lightshow ever etc. Baffling shows! I've been there. But Floyd was not necessarily a good band post-Waters. But they knew what the audience wanted.
Edited by Moogtron III - June 30 2015 at 15:33 |
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:23 | |
Waters once said he was involved in only three totally satisfactory albums: Dark Side Of The Moon, The Wall and Amused To Death. I like the album, but not as much as Dark Side.
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