Why did Roger Waters never get beyond The Wall?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=103085
Printed Date: December 01 2024 at 22:10
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Why did Roger Waters never get beyond The Wall?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: Why did Roger Waters never get beyond The Wall?
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 11:33
| Everyone , I'm sure, is aware of the break of Roger Waters with Pink Floyd after the album The Final Cut. He was still the same songwriter, but his following solo albums suffered in sales and, generally, were not well received by Floyd fans. Why? And as for the albums produced by Pink Floyd after Water's departure, they were no longer biting concept pieces with brilliant lyrics. Why were they still so popular and sold in the millions? |
Replies:
Posted By: NutterAlert
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 11:59
|
Brand loyalty. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:21
|
With Pink Floyd you still have Gilmour's brilliant guitar work. -------------   
|
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 14:11
Beyond Gilmour's guitar (this being a big reason I preferred Gilmour post-Wall over Waters), I think it was also that David balanced Roger's eccentricities. Waters was the more manic and shrieking voice, whereas Gilmour has the more calm, mellifluous vocals -- this no better displayed than in the dual vocals of "Comfortably Numb" and "Dogs". Gilmour once referred to himself as "a fatalist, but a happy fatalist", and I think this comes across in Floyd post-Waters. There is hope and at least a search for happiness, whereas Waters remains forever cynical, forever negative: no balance. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Catcher10 wrote:Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 14:44
Bingo.....  -------------
|
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 14:47
|
Posted By: lostrom
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:10
|
Waters solo works lacks of the typical Wright magic which in many ways IS Pink Floyd - the later PF albums does not - that's why. ------------- lostrom |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:16
|
I know I am in a minority, but I regard Waters' best work as being post-Floyd, namely Amused To Death. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:23
Waters once said he was involved in only three totally satisfactory albums: Dark Side Of The Moon, The Wall and Amused To Death. I like the album, but not as much as Dark Side.
|
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:29
Because the band name has the magic. PF post-Waters tried to revive the sonic adventures of their 1970's albums and the visual tricks from the live shows (flying pig, flying bed above the stadium which ignites fireworks once reaching the stage, the biggest lightshow ever etc. Baffling shows! I've been there. But Floyd was not necessarily a good band post-Waters. But they knew what the audience wanted.
|
Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 17:58
|
In their ability to recreate Floyd both past and present post Floyd was still a great band live. Sadly for me, i've never seen Waters solo live but going by his DVDs it would be a treat. Recorded output is a bit hit and miss for me but really how many old farts are still producing the goods ? At least goods that are as innovative as their youthful output. Some yes but most seem to get all pop schmaltzy on us or settle for technique (not necessarily a bad thing) rather than new ideas. Hell, it cannot be easy to be bustling in the hedgerow when you are in your 70s. ------------- Andrew B “Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 18:21
I confess I'm a Wish You Were Hereist. Dark Side is a fabulous album sonically but it was never a real favourite of mine. Quite like Amused but for mine it needs to sit beside the other two as something of an addenda if it is to be considered one of his or PF's best. Then again I quite liked Division Bell and Final Cut. OK, they don't really say anything new but I still enjoy(ed) them. Not, and this is simply my probably worthless opinion only, as unimportant as e.g. the last few Genesis albums. ------------- Andrew B “Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 22:41
| I always thought Amused to Death was very well received. And the tours he's done since the late 90's have been very succesful, I believe. However, I do think he needed the equilibrium the other members of Pink Floyd brought to the table, and indeed the sound of both Wright and Gilmour is missing in his solo work. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 22:51
|
Frankly I have never been a fan of Water's vocals or bass playing....I think they are both very average. He has come up with some good lyrics and concepts over the Floyd years and that's where he was always the best imo. Floyd was a total group effort musically where the sum of the parts was greater than the whole (similar to the Beatles) and after they split up it was obvious. For me they have not aged well and I don't play Floyd often these days, and Water's solo music has been very uninteresting to me.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: June 30 2015 at 23:49
|
Amused To Death was as good as anything Floyd put out, but excuse the pun...the sum of all parts meant that even Wright, Gilmour and Mason would not have had massive success either in a solo capacity, I don't think. Waters for me the key ingredient in Floyd. I remember him saying during the KAOS tour he was battling to fill 5000 seats while Floyd playing next door were filling 50-100K stadiums. Brand loyalty as a previous post says. His solo work all three in fact great albums. When you listen to The Final Cut you realize even without Wright how beautiful an album it is. As much as Waters may want to consider it a solo album it is very much the finished article under Pink Floyd  ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 02:25
Don't most artists consider their most recent work their best? Also, Waters has been working on new projects like that opera about the French Revolution... has anyone here seen it? I also think he contributed with a song to a film soundtrack. ------------- "The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook |
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 04:11
|
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 05:26
|
I still think "The Endless River" has been the best Pink Floyd album without Roger Waters, and I'd even put it above "Animals" and "The Wall". It does seem Roger's writing dried up. "The Pros And Cons of Hitch-hiking" was also demoed around the time he'd demoed The Wall, so that's both late 70's. "Radio Kaos" had a germ of a good idea but it was let down by no real musical ideas and terrible writing. "Amused To Death" was a return to form though. But then Roger just... Drifted off. I haven't heard his opera, not really an opera person. And although his recent tour of "The Wall" was successful, it's still material from the late 70's. I'm hoping when he finally gets around to releasing "Homeland" it'll show there's life beyond "The Wall". But what Pink Floyd really needed was a manager to point out how well they worked together, and how the band was bigger than the four of them. So that meant Roger winding himself back in a bit and David being a bit more open to ideas. The fact they didn't rally round and help Rick Wright when he was having problems is quite sad. He deserved better than to be frozen out. I'm not expecting Pink Floyd to become all touchy-feely. Frankly, that would be terrifying! But they could have done more. Where's a music based Jeremy Kyle series when you need one!
 |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 05:28
Re: The Final Cut. "If these songs weren't good enough for 'The Wall' why are they good enough now?" Get off the blow, Gilmour and I don't know, work to make the songs better. Yes, Roger, that means co-crediting other people!
|
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 06:04
|
I miss the 'music' in Waters' solo output. Too much talk-singing with little or no room for any musical spaces in between. When he broke with Floyd it seems as if there no longer were anyone around to point out the need for him to shut up....if only for a couple of minutes. I rather dig a couple of tunes off Pros and Cons and Amused to Death, but they're funnily also the ones that open up and let the music breathe. Loved his recent The Wall tour though, which I caught in Parken, Copenhagen - a stadium notorious for it's awful acoustics. This gig though proved just how wonderful of a sound it's possible to achieve on such a venue. It really set the bar. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 01 2015 at 22:34
Well, I believe David did a lot to help out Rick... just perhaps he was a bit late. For some reason he didn't during the time of The Wall (though we don't really know that, do we? We only know that Waters made hell with him and fired him, why Gilmour didn't or couldn't stop it, we don't know), but then he got Wright back on his feet for A Momentary Lapse of Reason. How much of it was for marketing and how much was for friendship, we don't know either, but Gilmour strikes me like a person who does cares for his friends... Rick was actually barely present on Momentary Lapse, as I understand it, but on the tour he did come back, and he was again working nicely for The Division Bell. And even if Wright still had doubts about himself, David did invite him for the semi-acoustic shows he did (releases on David Gilmour on Concert), and then for the tour of On An Island, in which I believe Rick was actually surprised at the reactions the public showed for him. I believe Gilmour had him on tour to help him out (of course, so that Rick would help Gilmour out, too). |
Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 22:36
| Waters' solo output turned deeply acerbic and is so intensely political he gives people a lot to disagree with, especially as he descended into what a lot of people consider intense antisemitism. I think Pros and Cons flew over too many people's heads to be highly successful, and Radio KAOS suffered from some dodgy ideas coupled with some poor timing as the wall fell and nuclear threats no longer seemed so immediate. Amused to Death is, IMHO, by far his best solo effort, but he exudes a level of anger and complaint that doesn't exactly attract people. Plus, the presentation turns muddy during the last few tracks. |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 23:10
The only lyrical track is sad to be honest one really misses Waters and it also feels unfinished, anyway I am so happy they finally released another album thus good or bad, I'll take it
 |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 23:13
Waters went beyond the wall into the final cut (last Waters Floyd Album) and here is an example: Pink Floyd Final Cut (6) - The Gunner's Dream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIJN6WWf3Rg&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwPrHo40qr1-pvZEZcejDeOw&index=82" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIJN6WWf3Rg&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwPrHo40qr1-pvZEZcejDeOw&index=82  |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 03 2015 at 23:18
listen to the most perfect crescendo at 2.11 vocals added and continued by the saxophone xxxx
|
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 04:06
|
So Rick sat in the studio -he would arrive exactly on time, which was very unusual, and stay to the bitter end every night. One day Ezrin said to me - he was slightly irked by this brooding presence very occasionally going "I don't like that" - "Why's Rick here again?" I said, "Don't you get it? He's putting in the time to prove he's a record producer. You talk to him about it." So he did. After that Rick never came to another session, unless he was directly asked to do keyboard tracks. And he became almost incapable of playing any keyboards anyway. It was a nightmare. I think that was the beginning of the end. Gilmour: (Sigh) I did not go along with it. I went out to dinner with Rick after Roger had said this to him and said if he wanted to stay in the band I would support him in that. I did point out to Rick that he hadn't contributed anything of any value whatsoever to the album and that I was not over-happy with him myself - he did very very little; an awful lot of the keyboard parts are done by me, Roger, Bob Ezrin, Michael Kamen, Freddie Mandell - but his position in the band to me was sacrosanct. My view, then and now is, if people didn't like the way it was going it was their option to leave. I didn't consider that it was their option to throw people out. Waters: I had a meeting with Dave in my garden in the South of France at which Dave said, "Let's get rid of Nick too." I bet he doesn't remember that. How inconvenient would that be? I went "Ooh, Dave, Nick's my friend. Steady!" http://www.pinkfloydz.com/artmojodec99thewall.htm |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 11:56
|
Maybe because Waters thought that his fellow bandmates were lesser than him? The Final Cut was basically just a solo album. ------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 20:42
Cooee! Roger Waters albums Amused to death had Jeff Beck and Pros and cons of hitchhiking had Eric Clapton! The Dark Elf  help please  oh wait! No balance you said? To the naughty corner for you!
 |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 20:43
Final cut was brilliant and fact is after Waters left, their last two albums were not nearly as good.
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 20:52
| A quick reminder just in case anyone thinks Clapton is too fluffy, here is Roger Waters with a track from Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, Clapton starts and sensitively kills it from 1.25 min here on this track awww... : Roger Waters - 5.06 (Every Stranger´s Eyes) (Official Video with lyrics) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgymnUs-OsU&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwPrHo40qr1-pvZEZcejDeOw&index=6" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgymnUs-OsU&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwPrHo40qr1-pvZEZcejDeOw&index=6 |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:24
Indeed Louder than Words is really missing some better lyrics... and music overall. Also, I'm glad they did release that last album, and despite that last song (and the one with the sax that I didn't really like very much either), I found the album really good and I enjoy it a lot. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:28
I do like The Final Cut (I mean, I do like just about every Pink Floyd album), but The Gunners Dream was never a favourite of mine on that album. I have read about the efect of the vocals continued by the sax, but I never thought it sounded so great... perhaps because it's very easy to distinguish when the sax starts and when the vocals end. When I've read this argument, I always think about the song Sheep, in which something very similar happens with the vocals and the synth... but in this case I do have a very hard time to distinguish the moment in which the vocals end, and they do seem to morph into the synths, and in this case I do love the effect. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:31
Very nice, this really helps understand things a bit. Of course, the lack of Rick's contributions to The Wall are perhaps the reason I feel this album is already a step below to the previous Floyd masterpieces (even if that was Rick's own fault). However, I do find it strange the part of Dave saying that they should get rid of Nick too... I would like to think that if it did happen, he was being sarcastic... though I guess we'll never know for sure. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:37
Well, I do agree that Gilmour helped balance the albums from just Roger Waters. And indeed Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton may have worked on Waters albums, but they were in only as session musicians. I wish they had contributed something at least on arrangements. And even so, Gilmour is still my favourite guitar player of the three (even if the other two may be viewed with more awe outside of the prog world). And I read just a little while ago how Waters liked being a solo artist because there was no one to second guess him or tell him to do things otherwise... all session musicians would have to do just as he told them... however, in the end, he did need someone second guessing him and helping him make the music even better. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 04 2015 at 23:40
Well, this is a matter of taste. Conceptually, indeed The Final Cut is much more brilliant than anything Floyd did without him... but musically... I guess I would rate it about the same as Momentary Lapse of Reason, and sigificantly below Division Bell, and even The Endless River. However, as I said before, that's a matter of taste. |
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 02:37
|
When I read the "the big bad Roger" part, for some reason, I couldn't help but picture Waters cloning himself with various facets of his personality during the sessions then, once he was done with them, putting them in that giant meat grinder from The Wall movie. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 04:04
my first guess is that Waters is not really as rich as the rest of Floyd, because Floyd was rather broke by the time of the early 80's (when he was ejected by some rather scandalous court decision) ... I mean, he spent years saving the Floyd ship all alone (Mason was racng his cars, Wright having a nervous breakdown) and Gilmour almost doing diddley/squat), and when he wanted to close the ship, it was still afloat, but not doing great. However despite two very weak albums (the atrocious AMLOR and the slightly better TDB >> with High Hopes to save it), money started rolling in like mad (mega-tours sponsored by multi-nationa firms)... And Waters didn't get hus fair share, despite doing all the groundwork in the bad years. Soooooooo, it's only natural that he scurries and exploits The Wall as much as he can.... But saying he never got beyond the wall is a big travesty of the truth.... but the public won't have much to do with his solo stuff (Amused to Death is brilliant) BTW: Roger said recently that he's halfway done with his next solo album, foreseen for release in roughly 18 months. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 04:09
TFC is not quite as good as anything that came before it (it's an album where organ & piano dominates, as opposed to the synths of Animals & The Wall), but indeed, the atrocious AMLOR is totally unworthy of Floyd and TDB is only saved by Gilmour's one valid track for Floyd and his solo career, since Numb (the intros of AMLOP and TDB are OK, but rip-offs of/from Shine On You CD) |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 07:04
|
to be honest I do not know any album David Gilmour released outside Pink Floyd never interested me to be honest. However, I do know, love and own two albums Roger Waters made after that tho'
|
Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 14:07
|
Which one's do you have? With the exception of Syd's stuff, I'm not too familiar with Floyd's solo work, but I have been thinking of picking up Gilmour's self titled debut and Water's Amused To Death. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 15:58
|
Prog magazine features as its lead album review the newly remastered Amused To Death, and it is a very sharp and insightful review, as well. It rightly says that Waters has, to a very large degree, been utterly vindicated in retrospect of his worldview of a civilisation in a bit of crisis, very much trampled upon by politicians, the establishment, corporate bullies, and, of course, a media which dumbs us down to the level of gorillas merely flicking endlessly between endless channels of sh*t. I will not get this cd, given that I already have the vinyl and original cd versions. Mr Waters has had a fair few quid off of me over the years, but, for those curious about the man and his post Floyd legacy, this supreme album is the place to go. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 16:21
I disagree. I think Momentary Lapse was excellent and Division Bell better than both of the previous two combined. Endless River was alright, but it seemed to have too much filler. In my opinion stylistically Final Cut was superior. It had more tone and a discernible theme just like the Wall did. But the playing wasn't as good as the albums that followed. Momentary Lapse had more creative energy, and while people will call it a Gilmour album it felt more free than Final Cut did. Division Bell's combined both the creativity of Lapse and with even better playing.
------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 16:37
You are spot on about the playing on Final Cut. The fact was that Waters was the only one of the three of them who cared at all about the album, which he wanted to release as a solo effort originally. Gilmore and Mason hated every second of it, and it quite clearly showed in the final product. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 05 2015 at 22:34
In which way would you say Waters was saving the Pink Floyd Flagship for so long. The band became huge with Dark Side and Wish you were Here, which were perfectly collaborative efforts. Even Animals still isn't so Roger driven (given that Dogs was mostly a Gilmour song, and that one is almost half the album... and mostly the best loved song on it. And then there's The Wall, which indeed was mainly a Roger thing and didn't have the same involvement from the band (still, from listening to the demos, I belive that if Gilmour hadn't been there to give his opinions and views, the album would have been notoriously weaker), and it was indeed a very succesful album. However, I understand the reason Pink Floyd was broke by the time Roger was out of the band, is because of the tour of The Wall, which was too big and expensive and was presented to few times to recover the money invested... so in the end, it would be Roger's fault, mainly, that the band was broke (and Rick came out of it without problems because he was already out of the band, so perhaps Roger did him a favor by firing him... at least financially). |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 03:52
Gilmour's 77 debut has ot some very decent tracks (so did Wright's Wet Dreazms, released around that time), but it's clear that both were missing Water's i,nput than Roger missed their inputs Floyd was like The Beatles... the sum of the individual parts amounted to much less than the quartet as a whole.
I'd say that : The Body (more of a Geesin album), Gilmour's s/t, Wright's Wet Dream , Waters' Amused to Death and Pros & Cons are the ones you must have in priority ... Mason's Fictitious Sport- however good it is - is more like joint-project with many friends, but not really Floyd-related. I still haven't heard Roger's Ca Ira thing, though. Totally forgettable are Gilmour's About Face (80's production plagued, and weak tracks) and the soporific On An Island. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 04:01
It's not just artistically speaking (Floyd wasn't yet in an artistic danger by Animals).... Roger was also busy saving the ship in terms of management and finances... They'd been ripped off by some financial adviser, made some poor investments as well, just built an horrendously expensive studio (almost never used) and the UK tax offices was coming down like mad on their collective heads... the band's financial future was wery bleak, so with Mason & Wright busy at other things , Gilmour & Wright saving some of their better ideas for their solo albums in 77 & 78, Waters was almost alone aboard keeping the ship afloat. as for Dogs (with Waters lyrics), remember it was a track they were already playing live in 75 and was originally thought to be on WYWH... So it's not like Gilmour actually did a whole lot in 77 for Animals either. |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 09:02
| Personally I like Amused to Death much more than The Wall. I mean, it's not golden era Floyd but it's got more of a point to it and I've never really bought the whole I'marockstarmylifeissoterrible concept-type album enough to enjoy it. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 10:48
|
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:05
Some don't know that this was not an original idea by Waters but taken from a book by Neil Postman. So....not exactly an observation of a worldview of a civilization in crisis by Waters. But I guess if one is going to 'borrow' make it a good one. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:18
You have missed Rick Wright's Broken China from 96' - Superb post Division Bell material ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:28
I was aware of the original source material, Doug, and I must get around to reading it one day. The concept of artists "borrowing" from original source material is nothing new, of course, and Waters brought this to a worldwide audience Postman could never have managed. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 21:47
Well, about their financial problems, I didn't really know about bad investments and so on, I just assumed they were OK since they had such big hits with Dark Side, and at least Wish You Were Here too (I don't know how much of a hit Animals might have been at the time, but surely not as great as the other two). About Gilmour and Wright savind gheir best ideas for their solo albums, well... Wright didn't save the best, he saved all for his solo album, since he didn't contribute to The Wall (not so sure who's fault it was, if Wright's or Waters', I guess both are to blame)... and about Gilmour, well, he almost didn't contribute either, but indeed he saved the best for the album, since there is nothing on his solo debute as good as Comfortably Numb (I don't think he knew it would turn out so great after working it, though, plus Waters input - whatever big or small - surely helped make the difference... which brings us back to the point: the band was greater than the sum of the parts). And about Dogs... well, in the end it's a song on the album, plus in that case Waters didn't do so much either, for Sheep was also around at the time Dogs was originally performed... which means Waters only wrote Pigs for the album (though at least he did write something... even though it might be, in my opinion, the lesser of the 3 great songs on the album, and of course I don't forget Pigs in the Wing, but that one is just not in the same league). |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 06 2015 at 23:58
|
^ subjectively speaking of course
Personally I think ' Pigs On The Wing' both parts are the best thing off Animals, which I absolutely think is a masterpiece anyhow, go figure.. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 07 2015 at 01:30
------------- |
Posted By: Siloportem
Date Posted: July 07 2015 at 01:44
Now I'm curious about your opinion on broken china Personally, I think it's the solo record that came closest to original Floyd. Since this is about Waters: I'm firmly in the amused to death is great camp. ------------- Thanks !! Your topics always so good and informative. I like you talk. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 07 2015 at 03:41
Didn't mention BC, because I don't think much of it, though like TDB, it is listenable. Actually it sounds like it was made from the same TDB sessions (and most notably like the two tracks Wright wrote for TDB). It's soft, fairly sleep-inducing (not to saya bit boring), but it's not offensive to the ears like About Face or AMLOR. Actually, TDB sits better with me than AMLOR, because Wright's input is Floydian. I can only think of AMLOR ever being recorded and released as a rush job for Gilmour to clain the name (it was just business, not art). Mason did so little on that album (he could barely drum anymore at the time) and Wright's name being included (however in little characters) is really almost scandalous in this attempt to legitimate the Floyd moniker. AMLOR is not really anything more than a Gilmour solo album,barely better than About Face and OAI.
|
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 02:58
Mmmhhh!!!... very recent news has it that Gilmour also plans a new album, and it might even come out before the end of the year. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 03:02
|
^ Gilmour's next album was scheduled for end of September according to Polly Samson. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 03:24
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 03:29
David Gilmour is brilliant his guitar tunes mesmerize you, however to me no doubt Water was the visionary. Even Gilmour solo albums he used other artist's work and here he is too darn brilliant tho', I don't think he ever sang notes as high as this Syd Barret song before really. Stunning. stunning sang by Gilmour Group hug to everyone  David Gilmour- Dark Globe (Live 2006) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGS4Xp8rLPA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGS4Xp8rLPA
|
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 10:18
Gilmour's tour starts in Croatia september 12, so the album will probably be out by then. I have tickets to the Royal Albert Hall the 24:th. Yay!!!! |
Posted By: Gentle Yes
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 12:37
| Well first of all I think we can agree that The wall was the peak of Waters' lyricism and creativity. (musically i'd rather say it was DSOTM) . Second of all, i'm preety sure that Waters was the brains behind Floyd without showing it. I think that when he left , Pink Floyd contined selling that much because of the name they had already built as PF and of course because of Gilmour, I mean you can clearly see the difference in songwriting on Division Bell, you hear Gilmour and not Waters..at all.. it was something different and was well perceived by the audience whereas Waters' solo career was just not that well accepted... it may be that simple :) |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 16:27
|
He ran out of decent ideas.......? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 16 2015 at 08:34
|
I tend to not look at Roger, singled out, any more than I do any of the other members of the group. They are/were all very good, given the personality differences, and I'm not sure that criticizing Roger's opinionated nature is a good reason to criticize a work, when most works of art in the 20th century have all had their own way, in this area. Criticism and opinion has always been a part of art ... like saying that a Delacroix, or Goya or many other romantic painters, for example, did not have any "ideas" in their work. My favorite example was the Goya painting that Luis Bunuel memorialized in "The Phantom of Liberty", when the character screamed "freedom" before he was shot! I tend to think that as a society, we're starting to be critical of people that have opinions, because we can not articulate, or agree, on anything ... and this board's comments are the perfect example, of some of the things that hurt the arts the most. We're here to uphold "one" art, but we spend time criticizing it. I do not find that very "progressive" as an attitude, or appreciation for the music. Roger, in my book, is a part of an artist in the 20th century, called "Pink Floyd" ... and as such is a part of my admiration for the century's exciting and important artistic ideas, that happened to involve many of us! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: July 18 2015 at 22:41
|
Right on, mosh. The Floyd after Syd were a group and the music reflected that....it started to go south when that Roger and Rick magic peaked on Dark Side. Wish and Animals were great albums but, to me, some of Rick's parts drag a bit, especially on Animals - like Roger said, if Rick had brought some of that stuff he saved for those solo records that nobody listened to, thing might have been different. Roger's solo stuff began with the Wall and everything after sounds in that same vein - nice stuff but no spacy Rick, no Gilmore gravy on top of everything and no heartbeat Nick.....and everything from the Wall to Amused suffers greatly because of these holes. Clapton, Beck et al bring KAOS and Amused to life a bit but not nearly enough to make me return to either record very often. Pros and Cons is a great idea....wish Floyd had chosen that and left the Wall for later. What must grate Roger even more than the Floyd case is that, solowise, Gilmore is just hitting his prime at his advanced age - he always was a spacy, slow motion bluesy guitarist. His newer solo stuff is full of groovy atmospheric playing, perfect for those Floyd fans from the early days who are now pushing 70. Somnambulant - should be a new genre on PA. . ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 02:56
Did Waters actually say that ?? I have for the better part on the last 3.5 decades, but I've never actually read that anywhere that he stated so as well. And he might have thought the same of Gilmour in that case.
Well, TFC is so different because it goes back to oragn & piano (no synths we'd gotten so used to since DSOTM) Yes, P&C is a great idea (I'd also have loved to have the full Floyd doing it), but I can undertsand that the choice between that and The Wall , they chose what they did. OK, what must be said, is that despite the fact that Gilmour & Wright didn't propose anything worthy, Waters came with these huge blocks, where there wasn't that much space for the others. Sure, Gilmour gets 4 credits (and not the least songs either) on The Wall, but imagine how so much better it would've been if if Wright had had the same amount.
You've got to be kidding!!!    On An Island is a total bore and if you've heard the future single (Rattle That Lock)? It sounds like it is a leftover from About Face, with bad 80's production values to boot.  TBH, I'm not impressed much with Gilmour songwriting abilities without the help of both Wright (for the arrangements) & Waters (for lyrics)Ever since that "Waters left Floyd" thing, Gilmour has only written one really good song (High Hopes) that didn't sound like it was derivative of old Floyd tunes, such as Cluster One or Signs Of Life - who both sounds erected from Shine On You CD. I was not impressed with About Face at all, and only half of the songs on his debut album are good or really good; while I like that DG77 album, it's clear that it's lacking something... something I don't find lacking in Wright's Wet Dream album of that same era (even if it sounds like an APP album) |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 18:51
|
Wright's solo stuff is at least interesting, especially Wet Dreams (Mel Collins!), but like the first Gilmore solo record it is missing something.....but that could be said of all Floyd solo albums, including the Final Cut (that second side could use a bit of "music"). ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 18:56
|
There's an Uncut magazine with Roger from 2000 where he made that remark about Wright's solo stuff. There was some great stuff on Wet Dreams - even Snowy White doing his best Gilmore. Waters felt if he'd brought some of that music to the Floyd, then things would've been different. Gilmore's About Face has a few great moments.....even a radio "hit", but the whole thing sounds like he's trying too hard for airplay. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 19:55
|
Nothing wrong with About Face as far as I'm concerned : a good record from a great guitarist. What were you expecting, a Floyd record? ------------- |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 20:54
^ I would say there is nothing wrong with it but not as good as his debut. Mind you the 80's was a challenge for these guys with all the synths and mullet hair do's. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 21:57
I never knew Waters had those opinions about Wright... and that puts his grudge against Wright in a slightly better light for me. At least I do agree with him in this matter. I used to think it was Waters who wanted to take control of the band and the writing of the music, even though I did read about him complaining that Wright and Gilmour were not contributing enough. Now, even though I do find Wet Dream an enjoyable album, indeed if Wright had offered the music for Floyd, and it was used in The Wall, this album might have ended up being a really wonderful record... for I do feel that it lacks something... and that something is exactly more Wright (and even some more Gilmour). |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 22:04
And this is a well known fact  :Roger Waters fired Richard Wright during the sessions for 1979's 'The Wall,' but then brought him back as a contract-labor sideman for the subsequent, money-losing tour. That made Wright the only member of Pink Floyd not to lose money on the tour. He wouldn't become a full-time member of the group again until 1994's 'The Division Bell.' |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 22:08
No one in their serious mind can believe that Gilmour's new album is better than anything Waters made after he left PF, seriously  Welcome to the bad 80's here: David Gilmour - Rattle That Lock (Audio) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHP7l0EaouM" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHP7l0EaouM
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 22:11
My final verdict is no Floyd is better without either Waters or Gilmour.  They are like Lennon and McCartney
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 22:17
|
Everyone thinks problems between Roger Waters and David Gilmour surfaced around 'The Wall.' In truth, friction already existed during the run-up to 1969's 'Ummagumma.' Each member had been tasked with constructing a solo contribution. When Gilmour asked Waters for some lyrical help, his response was a simple "no." hahahaha!!! Waters is very naughty lol
|
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 23:33
IMO The Wall lacks nothing :-) ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 19 2015 at 23:39
ditto Chris,
it lacks nothing! more to you! |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 00:29
I won't listen to this track until I buy the record and I'll take About Face over Radio Kaos any day.  ------------- |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 00:31
hahahahaha!!! Barbu you killed me right now hahahaha!!!! I am laughing here so much haha!! hugs
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 00:44
|
I have to admit that Roger Waters - Home Album: Radio Kaos 1987 is just too awful for me to listen. Damn I forgot about that, Barbu! To be honest even atleast YMCA atleast had a rhythm tune lol bah I want to forget that part of Waters, everything on and about that track is awful bah
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 00:52
Roger Waters - Radio KAOS - Tide Is Turning is seriously good tho'  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66nqhVtq6xo" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66nqhVtq6xo
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 00:57
|
here is a clear answer to the forum question |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 00:59
|
Also after the Wall in terms of Floyd there was The Final Cut
|
Posted By: David64T
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 06:50
Thank you so much for posting this - totally new to me, Dave Gilmour playing one of my favourite songs by Syd! A nice tribute at the time to Syd I think. ------------- Seasons Of Change - weekly programme on community radio: https://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/" rel="nofollow - http://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/ |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 09:06
David64T aww my pleasure really, such a beautiful song. I must thank you instead for taking notice too
big hug to you |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 10:52
|
Roger Waters actually told us why he never got beyond the Wall: The wall was too high as you can see No matter how he tried he could not break free And the worms ate into his brain. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 10:58
Spot on! ------------- 
|
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 13:10
Group hug yay!!!!
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 14:04
Perhaps Roger got too occupied watching this TV show? Just kidding. Had album been done by Floyd, it may have well been their best.
|
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 14:34
An opinion with which I concur absolutely. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 16:30
|
^ Yes a stunning piece of work...the Battle of Bill Hubbard makes me want to cry. So poignant. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Matthew _Gill
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 16:31
|
Is Roger the most hated man in Prog, has a poll/thread been done? ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOoJ0OTLg0&t" rel="nofollow - Click here to see a mind-blowing Flashlight |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 16:44
|
^ He can't be cos I love the man, best man in prog Take that to infinity and back. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 17:31
And voice. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 17:34
I currently use Amused to Death as a drink coaster - it's that good! ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 18:38
Big hug
|
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 21:03
I wouldn't give a veredict until I listen to the whole of it. I certainly don't expect it to be better than Amused to Death... but the two 80's albums... who knows? Amused to Death is certainly the best solo album by any Floyd member... only Wright would get close with Broken China. Songwise, I think Gilmour released some really wonderful songs, though. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 20 2015 at 21:06
Indeed, there's no question about that. They both needed each other. And even if Roger apreciated his freedom to write just what he wanted without someone else in the band second-guessing him... I think he really needed someone second-guessing him. And the rest of Floyd needed the extra song-writing genius of Waters, and even more so the lyrics and concepts from him. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 21 2015 at 03:04
One of the better ones in the "prog galaxy", anyway... and certainly the most articulate with Ian Anderson.
|
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: July 21 2015 at 03:14
Go on! Make that poll! I've no idea who's the most hated man in Prog. You'd have to have a few candidates with a case for and against each one of them. I don't hate Rog, but then I don't hate Phil Collins for so called "Ruining Genesis" either.
|