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Guldbamsen
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Posted: December 09 2014 at 13:32 |
Fantastic post T. Now go post it in every thread where the returning "PA confusion" takes place.
Btw, I'm not sure it's merely the youngins doing this.
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TODDLER
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Posted: December 09 2014 at 12:55 |
It would be nice if a majority of the younger generation understood the difference between Progressive Rock and playing progressive. As if to say...if you are playing guitar on stage with Billy Joel and you are playing a part of the song that is progressive, then it rates alongside playing a fast note pattern on the guitar from a YES song. Music is simply music, but it is often misunderstood by those who are not musicians in the sense that they don't conceive that many styles of music have a strong relationship with each other regarding NOT only the science aspect to music, but the natural developing stages of it. For example: How Jazz playing made it's way through "Top 40 #1 hits". Originally the term "progressive" was used by road musicians to describe to each other how to go about playing in a piece.
This was decades before Progressive Rock was invented and since the term was used by mostly musicians anyway, being relevant in the musician's world, it was found suitable to apply it to the term Progressive Rock. In the end, it was all nailed down to the way in which you were playing. There was more to the meaning of the term than simply playing in a progressive way. It also opened doors for musicians to arrive with new ideas for composition. However a huge percentage of the Prog community , (over many years), have developed attitudes about something which is actually being played progressive in a "hit single" and refuse to believe that any of the note patterns contained within are the exact same ones used in Progressive Rock. That becomes a little questionable , if you know what I mean..because if you are the musician and have played those notes and know that they are the same pattern used in many styles of music, how will you ever convince fans of Prog? Your conversation or point is completely shut off. To musicians, it's sometimes all the same thing repeated over and over. "Unsettled Scores" on the Cuneiform label contains some very complex arrangements, but on the "Essential Earth, Wind & Fire" I hear many arrangements that are just as complex and difficult to play. I'm not recommending Earth, Wind & Fire or Stevie Wonder, I'm just saying how some people don't believe that any band which has a name tag can play progressive. Not Progressive Rock, but the style of playing progressive...which IS in Progressive Rock. So my point is that this actually being identified for a musician as being "progressive" and not literally Progressive Rock, is often confused by the audience as being or meaning something else.I mean...it's laughable in a way, but almost want to pull my hair out when some people insist on misunderstanding that there are man made invented terms that don't immediately reveal the basis of it's foundation in history when hanging around with a crowd of people who have no reason to care.
Edited by TODDLER - December 09 2014 at 12:58
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TODDLER
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Posted: December 09 2014 at 11:04 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
You're probably right Simon.
But there is some truth to the point I was making about fashion opposite music. Just like you see with the current adoration of female Ramones t-shirts. Every girl I've ever met wearing one of those has had absolutely no clue about the actual band. No that's actually a lie. One thought she knew them but had confused them with Kiss 
I see a lot of hippies in Aalborg where I live, but the longhaired and altogether 70s looking guys I've been talking to (and their friends from what I could tell) were all into stuff like Kings of Leon, The Strokes, The Libertines and Animal Collective. What may look like a 70s progger or hippie devoté in today's world may just as easily be a person who saw a hip add for some colourful clothes, and then just ran with it.
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Svetonio
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 11:44 |
I just don't believe that all that young people in hippie clothes will booed if e.g. Steve Wilson to play at IOW Festival 2015 instead already announced Pharell Williams. It is up to the organizers and marketing guys who really are more and more mediocre. They maybe do not want a prog band on the stage because IOW is not a prog festival, or they fear loss of profits or who knows if they ever give a sh*t who's going to play - just that the biggest sellers are on the stage, and everything else except that super-super-mainstream they do not care. Although that legendary IOW 1970/1971 was full of progressive rock bands and although the young people show a desire for a "retro 70s". And young people will listen to all that organizers and sponsors a la Hard Rock Cafe will set at the stage. Just my opinion, of course.
Edited by Svetonio - December 08 2014 at 12:07
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moshkito
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 11:19 |
TODDLER wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
Most of the people dressing up in hippie clothes these days don't listen to the same kind of stuff they used to back then. The following may come off as a gross generalisation, but in something like 99% of the time you meet those chicks, they're either on their way to a rave or merely attending some kind of outdoors rock festival. Go back to their place and see what kind of music they really listen to, and you get synth-pop and 80s music galore......maybe a couple of Beatles and Doors records if you're lucky
The style of the 60s and 70s is still hugely 'in', but the kind of spiritual devotion to rock music that went along with the fashion back then is something you have to look long and hard for nowadays. It's still there but in smaller fractions and in most cases it's spread out to other branches of music than rock.
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Great points! Also..the first paragraph had me laughing. It's interesting to read your posts.
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I disagree. All you had to do is check out the YES audience at the Spirit Mountain Casino ... I was almost embarassed to even be there, because it was so bad and ugly and old! It was such an incredible fad, it wasn't funny!
Go put a flower in your hair and thengo to SF!!! Know what i mean?
I listen to anything and everything, and I can enjoy (for example) Guy Guden's shows other than Space Pirate Radio, where he used to rip into the 60's England for several hours, and the list is insane, and I don't even know half of them! And if that's not enough ... I wanna be like David Watts and catch over 35 minutes of The Kinks ... in their very early days, that i don't think ANYONE in this board has ever heard!!!
The issue is not the "music" but the FAD that goes with scenes ... people weren't into the music, they were into disco, for example ... and we're pulling off exactly the same mentality ... we're not into music, we're into "progressive".
It's childish and silly!
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TODDLER
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 09:42 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Most of the people dressing up in hippie clothes these days don't listen to the same kind of stuff they used to back then. The following may come off as a gross generalisation, but in something like 99% of the time you meet those chicks, they're either on their way to a rave or merely attending some kind of outdoors rock festival. Go back to their place and see what kind of music they really listen to, and you get synth-pop and 80s music galore......maybe a couple of Beatles and Doors records if you're lucky 
The style of the 60s and 70s is still hugely 'in', but the kind of spiritual devotion to rock music that went along with the fashion back then is something you have to look long and hard for nowadays. It's still there but in smaller fractions and in most cases it's spread out to other branches of music than rock. |
Great points! Also..the first paragraph had me laughing. It's interesting to read your posts.
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Toaster Mantis
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 08:25 |
As far as concrete data go, Mastodon will play in Copenhagen on the 15th of December which is advertised with huge posters all over the city. The 11th will see technical death metal groups Gigan, Ulcerate and Wormed play on the same bill too. Other progressive metal acts paying a visit to Denmark in the near future include Abysmal Dawn, Death, Meshuggah and for that matter even Wishbone Ash who were one of the heavier original generation prog rock groups. Probably forgot a lot of less well-known musicians in the process.
Right now I'm sitting with a copy of the latest issue of Metalized, probably the biggest Danish-language. Among the musicians interviewed are Downfall of Gaia, Thomas Giles, Grorr, Nightingale, Origin, Redwood Hill and Devin Townsend. The issue also includes positive reviews of Abysmal Dawn, Anatomy of Heart, Cea Serin, Crone, Divine Ascension, aforementioned Downfall of Gaia, EscapeTheCult, Grorr, Inter Arma, Lelahell, Mike Lepond's Silent Assassins, Nightingale, NKVD, SOEN, Solefald, Suborned, Synaptik, Ulver, Witherscape and Xthir13n. So it appears that progressive metal is at least doing pretty well in terms of popularity, as for other kinds of progressive music go I'll have to look that up next time I'm at the public library and can keep up on the rest of the music scenes around here going by the latest issues of other music magazines + concert announcements and whatnot.
I'm still under the impression that prog/psych music in general's going through something of an upswing in popularity in recent years anyway, though.
Edited by Toaster Mantis - December 08 2014 at 08:27
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 07:48 |
Sounds like my old gang of friends in Copenhagen.
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Toaster Mantis
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 07:27 |
Most of the prog rock fans I know who are my age don't dress like that, a few do but the vast majority are metalheads and punks either looking to expand their music horizons or perhaps getting more reflective and less angry as they get older.
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 07:20 |
I don't. All I'm saying is that appearances fool - especially in this day and age. Every fashion trend from the last century is trendy somewhere right now, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the person wearing it knows anything relevant about the actual time frame from where the style originated - let alone the music.
Edited by Guldbamsen - December 08 2014 at 08:31
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Svetonio
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 07:15 |
How do you know that these girls in hippie costumes in IOW Festival 2014 would not be enjoyed in, say, a contemporary space rock band more than in Red Hot Chilli Peppers who were the headliners? By the way, I saw RHCP live at stage in 2007, and they were terrible.
Edited by Svetonio - December 08 2014 at 07:20
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 06:51 |
You're probably right Simon.
But there is some truth to the point I was making about fashion opposite music. Just like you see with the current adoration of female Ramones t-shirts. Every girl I've ever met wearing one of those has had absolutely no clue about the actual band. No that's actually a lie. One thought she knew them but had confused them with Kiss 
I see a lot of hippies in Aalborg where I live, but the longhaired and altogether 70s looking guys I've been talking to (and their friends from what I could tell) were all into stuff like Kings of Leon, The Strokes, The Libertines and Animal Collective. What may look like a 70s progger or hippie devoté in today's world may just as easily be a person who saw a hip add for some colourful clothes, and then just ran with it.
Edited by Guldbamsen - December 08 2014 at 06:52
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Toaster Mantis
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 06:37 |
I need to find some proper references and statistics (sort of) then, because it's clear we'll only argue in circles when relying on just anecdotal evidence.
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 06:27 |
Most of the people dressing up in hippie clothes these days don't listen to the same kind of stuff they used to back then. The following may come off as a gross generalisation, but in something like 99% of the time you meet those chicks, they're either on their way to a rave or merely attending some kind of outdoors rock festival. Go back to their place and see what kind of music they really listen to, and you get synth-pop and 80s music galore......maybe a couple of Beatles and Doors records if you're lucky 
The style of the 60s and 70s is still hugely 'in', but the kind of spiritual devotion to rock music that went along with the fashion back then is something you have to look long and hard for nowadays. It's still there but in smaller fractions and in most cases it's spread out to other branches of music than rock.
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Svetonio
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 06:09 |
I think that is absolutely untrue that "all" young people are in the mood "only" for a rave and the like. For example, I was looking at photos from the IOW Festival 2014, and I saw a lot of young girls in hippie costumes. Thus, the interest in "retro 70s" is evident there. But if you look at the line-up, you'll not see some psychedelic and (or) prog bands, but many mainstream bands & artists are there. Who is to blame? Of course, the organizer of the festival is to blame for it; some mediocre is the organizer for sure.
Edited by Svetonio - December 08 2014 at 12:17
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Toaster Mantis
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Posted: December 08 2014 at 04:51 |
The internet kind of solves that problem, though. Maybe it's just some kind of generation gap I'm on a different side of compared to the older posters, but all the doomsaying and pessimism in threads like this kind of rings false to me. There's plenty of new rock and metal groups in more avantgarde/technical/progressive/psychedelic styles with plenty of new records coming out and new concerts being announced if you just look the right places at concert venues, neither is it difficult for me to find people to discuss it with.
Maybe my perspective is skewed further by the fact that I live in a capital city with a healthy alternative cultural scene and a lot of small underground concert venues, not to mention it's the place for art festivals where experimental musicians often play as part of? Even the provincial town I grew up in had a rather active DIY punk/metal venue that's now reborn itself as expanding into other underground music forms, including quite a few psychedelic rock groups, so I'm not sure if that's really the case. Then again another confounder would be that I'm friends with quite a few people in more subcultural music scenes, so I might be more exposed to underground music than the average citizen.
Sure, progressive rock might not be as much of a cultural force slash overall phenomenon as it was in the late 1960s/early 1970s, and quite a few modern experimental rock/metal groups don't really sound that much like the progenitors of that ethos. I just get the impression that the "scene" around progressive music is way healthier or at least more productive than it's been in like the past 20 years or so, and anyone who doesn't notice that just hasn't been paying attention. Maybe I need to provide concrete examples of what is happening exactly that I'm referring to?
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Posted: December 07 2014 at 22:01 |
Jzrk wrote:
Just want to add that this problem of keeping the prog going is not limited to the genre.Mass media has hidden a lot of music such as modern blues,blues rock,jazz,jazz rock ect. Lucky that there always seems to be new bands that relight the candle so to speak. I know it seemed that blues was dying out,but there has been a resurgence the last few years.
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Posted: December 07 2014 at 21:37 |
Just want to add that this problem of keeping the prog going is not limited to the genre.Mass media has hidden a lot of music such as modern blues,blues rock,jazz,jazz rock ect. Lucky that there always seems to be new bands that relight the candle so to speak. I know it seemed that blues was dying out,but there has been a resurgence the last few years.
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Jzrk
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Posted: December 07 2014 at 21:35 |
Just want to add that this problem of keeping the prog going is not limited to the genre.Mass media has hidden a lot of music such as modern blues,blues rock,jazz,jazz rock ect. Lucky that there always seems to be new bands that relight the candle so to speak. I know it seemed that blues was dying out,but there has been a resurgence the last few years.
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Jzrk
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Posted: December 07 2014 at 21:29 |
'PiphanyRambler wrote:
Skullhead wrote:
<span style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;">I was explaining to a couple of them that music has more possibilities like going into odd metering or developing a concept outside of boy meets girl or drugs, pimps and hoes, and they will say something like, </span><br style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;"><span style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;">Yeah, I get that, but I just don't like that kind of stuff.. too "heady".</span><br style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;"><br style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;"><span style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;">There is this thing about not getting too serious, because it takes the fun out of the experience. |
I think that a good share of people consider music only from an entertainment standpoint, rather than considering it art, or something worth their time outside the clubs. And I don't think it's a bad thing, it just means that you're not that interested in music.</span><span style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;"> Now, since I wasn't around at the time, I know nothing about the '70s, but perhaps there was a different approach to music, as many here already said.
</span> <span style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px; : rgb248, 248, 252;">I think that now it's not just Prog Rock the one to be at risk, but music in general. Today music is relegated to a role of entertainment/pastime and nothing more. The most fun songs become famous, or the ones that make the most people dance. There's nothing wrong about that, mind you. Fun is right, of course. But I think that this kind of promotion removes the charm that music can have if given the proper time to appreciate it.</span> | Believe it or not this is not something new,but the way it has been.Its called popular music hence the term Pop music.For instance,King Crimson isn't pop music.
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