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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 17:09 |
Dean wrote:
Ah... ...what is the purpose of instrumental Progressive Rock? |
Oh, oh, oh....I know this one! Ummm....to take up the space left over on a CD or album when bands run out of lyrics.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 17:14 |
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What?
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 18:00 |
Doesn't any topic the artist chooses "have a place"?
As a listener, do I like religious lyrics? Doesn't matter. But I prefer lyrics about why short people have no reason to live.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 18:02 |
Finnforest wrote:
Doesn't any topic the artist chooses "have a place"?
As a listener, do I like religious lyrics? Doesn't matter. But I prefer lyrics about why short people have no reason to live.
| I have notebooks full of those.
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Polymorphia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8856
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Posted: August 09 2014 at 18:02 |
cstack3 wrote:
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I have to give you some cred for this one.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: August 10 2014 at 10:20 |
Religion should have a place everywhere except legislation.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17511
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Posted: August 10 2014 at 10:37 |
The Pessimist wrote:
Religion should have a place everywhere except legislation. |
Except in half the world where they kill/rob you for not submitting to their will?
I kinda look at the top ten stuff the same way ... it's a religion that society uses to convince you that something or other is better than it really is. It's better for a few folks pockets. Not sure about anything else.
I know that I stand up for artists and their freedom of expression ... but now I will DEFAULT to the "Le Phantome de la Liberte" ... complete with a Goya painting!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: August 10 2014 at 11:09 |
moshkito wrote:
I kinda look at the top ten stuff the same way ... it's a religion that society uses to convince you that something or other is better than it really is.
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The top ten a religion? I don't know if to , to or to Praise Close To The Edge and you are granted a place in heaven sitting at the right of Jon Anderson!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: August 10 2014 at 12:09 |
I wonder if even the actual top 10 people (if any such kind does exist) are as obsessed with the top 10 as mosh.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: August 11 2014 at 09:14 |
Dean wrote:
<span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">
SteveG wrote:
</span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">Back to topic No.1., the comparison of Progressive Rock with other forms of 'popular' instrumental music is laughable as who were the populous that listened to 18th century Classical and Chamber music? Peasants and tenant farmers at home with their 9 volt transistor radios? And when this populous did listen to instrumental music, was it not Polkas, Jigs, Reels or Bluegress for folk dancing purposes only? And did this dance craze not also carry over later into Jazz and R&B forms like Swing and Big Band, again, more music to dance to? The first group was rarely listened to by the masses, the second grouping didn't require lyrics when they did listen to it, just a melody and a rhythm in order to 'cut a rug'. So let's put things back into perspective before I disappear back into the studio for awhile. (Probably for a long while). My argument is abstract. Everyone is welcome to examine it, think about it and accept it or dismiss it as they like. To argue against it is like arguing against (or even for) the existence of God. It doesn't do any good, but everyone is completely free to do as they like. |
</span> ... Ah... ...what is the purpose of instrumental Progressive Rock? |
As with all rules, there are exceptions, so lets play the word game again as I see that this is the only thing that seems to reach certain members, especially when it is preoccupying certain members, so I will repeat my statement again with emphasis; There is a reason why a majority of the Progressive Rock music that we listen to contains lyrics. For those that don't know, the simple definition of the the word majority means 'great in number'. One of my friends in my age group listens to free form Jazz only and disregards all other popular music forms, but as the great producer I quoted one said "Peope don't like Jazz, they only like the idea of liking Jazz." Fom my point of view, his statement has merit but again, there are exceptions. (at least I like to think so).
Edited by SteveG - August 11 2014 at 16:12
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: August 11 2014 at 09:24 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Dean wrote:
Ah... ...what is the purpose of instrumental Progressive Rock? | Oh, oh, oh....I know this one! Ummm....to take up the space left over on a CD or album when bands run out of lyrics. |
Refer to my last post. Again, a simple definition of the word majority means 'great in number'.
Edited by SteveG - August 11 2014 at 09:28
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: August 11 2014 at 09:48 |
SteveG wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Dean wrote:
Ah... ...what is the purpose of instrumental Progressive Rock? | Oh, oh, oh....I know this one! Ummm....to take up the space left over on a CD or album when bands run out of lyrics. | Refer to my last post. Again, a simple definition of the word majority means 'great in number'.
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Obviously, sarcasm can no longer be detected without affixing a cartoon emoticon to a statement.
I should be on record somewhere in this interminable discussion stating that I find lyrics important in most cases.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: August 11 2014 at 09:53 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: August 11 2014 at 10:10 |
SteveG wrote:
Dean wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Back to topic No.1., the comparison of Progressive Rock with other forms of 'popular' instrumental music is laughable as who were the populous that listened to 18th century Classical and Chamber music? Peasants and tenant farmers at home with their 9 volt transistor radios? And when this populous did listen to instrumental music, was it not Polkas, Jigs, Reels or Bluegress for folk dancing purposes only? And did this dance craze not also carry over later into Jazz and R&B forms like Swing and Big Band, again, more music to dance to? The first group was rarely listened to by the masses, the second grouping didn't require lyrics when they did listen to it, just a melody and a rhythm in order to 'cut a rug'. So let's put things back into perspective before I disappear back into the studio for awhile. (Probably for a long while). My argument is abstract. Everyone is welcome to examine it, think about it and accept it or dismiss it as they like. To argue against it is like arguing against (or even for) the existence of God. It doesn't do any good, but everyone is completely free to do as they like. |
...
Ah...
...what is the purpose of instrumental Progressive Rock? | As with all rules, there are exceptions, so lets play the word game again as I see that this is the only thing that seems to reach certain members, especially when it is preoccuping certain members, so I will repeat my statement again with emphasis; There is a reason why a majority of the Progressive Rock music that we listen to contains lyrics. For those that don't know, the simple definition of the the word majority means 'great in mumber'. One of my friends in my age group listens to free form Jazz only and disregards all other popular music forms, but as the great producer I quoted one said "Peope don't like Jazz, they only like the idea of liking Jazz." Fom my point of view, his statement has merit but again, there are exceptions. (at least I like to think so).
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I'm not sure how or why this has degenerated into semantics, if I started it then disregard all my posts on this particular branch of discussion. My point, however laboured, has become well and truly lost in all this.
However, please take note of my post on the difference between Lyrics and Vocals in the other thread.
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What?
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: August 11 2014 at 10:41 |
Dean wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Dean wrote:
SteveG wrote:
The Closing Bell: 29 For, 5 Against, 3 Not Determined and 7 Without Comment. After rechecking and rethinking some of the comments, I think the totals are pretty close. The reason I posted this thread, apart from the question about religion in Progressive Music, was to again call attention to the question How important are lyrics to you in Prog Music? It seems that they are important in regard to specific topics, so again I propose to argue that they are important to us and, if anything, perhaps even on some base psychological level. (No pyscho babel here, just using the term as an example). There is a reason that the majority of the music that we enjoy listening to is not purely instrumental. Perhaps we need a human connection to it, if even on some subconscious level, as my old pal Doctor Freud use to say. And no, I'm not as old as him. | Ah... no. You asked whether there was a place for religion in Prog - you didn't ask us whether religious lyrics were important. Two different things and frankly, no real correlation between them. You cannot infer from the replies that the lyrics are important or that anyone even listen to them unless they draw attention to themselves in some way. Most replies here suggest that they are tolerated as long as they aren't too preachy - which kinda suggests, like many people have been trying to say in the other thread, they are not important at all - however if they are intrusive (for example badly written or badly sung) then they are often disliked. | I explained my change in topic in another post as the thread has run it's course. A lot was said, including some very profound statements, with no one getting their feelings hurt. Mission accomplished. Time to move on. But back to your statement about lyrics being tolerated as long as they are not preachy. I think you've looked at the posted comments too narrowly. Many said that the lyrics were important as they were inspired and inspired the artist. Others said that the lyrics were uplifting even if they were not religious or did not follow a particular religious theme that was projected by the lyrics. Didn't you yourself say that we cannot generalize? |
Firstly, it's not your call - you cannot decide when we all change topic and you cannot chose when a topic has run its course. All you can do is start a topic - but as the OP you don't own it nor are you its chairman; this is not the Oxford Union Debating Society, it's an internet discussion forum. The topic will move on when it is good and ready and it will fizzle out in a blaze of disinterested indifference all by itself. Secondly, my point still remains - there is no correlation between the two subjects.
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Firstly, we seem to be talking in circles or just plainly misunstanding each other's intent. No one's at fault, it happens in disjointed posted correspondence. Secondly, As far as taking it upon myself to end or alter threads like this one, you give me too much credit and it was not my intention, I simply wanted to move on. Many, many other members will not, so this will be an active thread for awhile regarding it's originally posted topic. No one is changing the rules even if they wanted to. Thirdly, I feel that the discussions between you and I have also run their course so let's come up with a topic to end climate change instead. Another topic that people can't seem to agree on.
Edited by SteveG - August 12 2014 at 16:22
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: August 11 2014 at 14:50 |
The Latest Total And A Question. Total now: 33 for, 6 against, 3 non commital and 8 without comment. We're getting in some last minute stragglers to this thread but the results are staying consistent. And if anyone can translate Mosh's opinion for me, I'll include it. I would like to point out that even though the membership has a tolerant view regarding religious lyrics in music, a good deal of member's personal views on religion are against religions for the various reasons and protracked opinions mentioned in many posts. By I did not notice any opinions to the contrary. Would anyone care to offer a counter argument, or in other words, what's good about the religion that they are a member of.
Edited by SteveG - August 12 2014 at 16:23
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timbo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 04 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 106
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Posted: August 12 2014 at 11:55 |
Add another "for".
I enjoy music that has an intelligent approach - whether in it's music or lyrics, and well-thought through lyrics on religion come into that category, even if I don't agree with them.
That said, as a Christian myself, I might not care to listen to black metal that mocks or is diametrically opposed to my own views, but I respect their right to say it.
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