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CosmicVibration 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014
Location: Milky Way
Status: Offline
Points: 1396
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 Posted: July 09 2014 at 11:44 |
By nature,
feeling is predominate in women and intellect is predominate in men. One should always strive for balance in
life. Women, in general, should not be
too emotional but rather balance emotion with logic. Men, on the other hand, should balance logic
with emotion. Heart and Mind should go
hand in hand.
In this
country women have equal rights, however, discrimination still exits. On average women get paid less for the same
position and an equal skill set. Wage
cap, glass ceiling, sex discrimination and other grievances still fester.
Truth be
told, I myself discriminate. When dining
out I’d tip a female waitress more than a male waiter for the same exact
service. Sorry fellas…
Edited by CosmicVibration - July 09 2014 at 11:45
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 13:18 |
 ExittheLemming wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I think men and women should have equal rights.Can anyone name a right that men have in the United States (where I live and know about) that women do not have?If not, can we retire the whole subject?
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Unfortunately having the same rights in front of the law does not mean being treated with equal fairness in practice. Even in Europe and the US women are frequently discriminated or even abused by men. This may be controversial, but in general men seem more capable to embrace perversion, cruelty or sadism than women. |
The first bit's fine but then you appear to state than men are more perverted, crueler and more sadistic than women? We both might agree that neither gender has a monopoly on 'deviation from the norm' (if that's whatperversion is - are you saying that women are more conditioned to conforming to a stereotypical role than men and that this is somehow a healthy thing?) Both the Marquis de Sade and Leopold von Sacher-Masoch had external genitals certainty, but the identification of purportedly sexual anomalies that bear their names cannot be construed as 'just a guy thing' surely?
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I did not state that "men ARE more perverted, crueler and more sadistic than women", read my sentence again (regardless of what Miss Whiplash may think about it, who in any case possibly acts to please some men around her). I do not have objective figures as back-up, but are you ready to defend the opposite, that cases of perversion (healthy or not is up to you), cruelty and sadism are perpetrated by women with the same frequency or more as they are by men?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 15:13 |
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Some gender generalizations apply to men or women, we should not be bound by them but should be left to explore be free to be whatever we are...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 15:46 |
Gerinski wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I think men and women should have equal rights.Can anyone name a right that men have in the United States (where I live and know about) that women do not have?If not, can we retire the whole subject?
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Unfortunately having the same rights in front of the law does not mean being treated with equal fairness in practice. Even in Europe and the US women are frequently discriminated or even abused by men. This may be controversial, but in general men seem more capable to embrace perversion, cruelty or sadism than women. |
The first bit's fine but then you appear to state than men are more perverted, crueler and more sadistic than women? We both might agree that neither gender has a monopoly on 'deviation from the norm' (if that's whatperversion is - are you saying that women are more conditioned to conforming to a stereotypical role than men and that this is somehow a healthy thing?) Both the Marquis de Sade and Leopold von Sacher-Masoch had external genitals certainty, but the identification of purportedly sexual anomalies that bear their names cannot be construed as 'just a guy thing' surely?
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I did not state that "men ARE more perverted, crueler and more sadistic than women", read my sentence again (regardless of what Miss Whiplash may think about it, who in any case possibly acts to please some men around her). I do not have objective figures as back-up, but are you ready to defend the opposite, that cases of perversion (healthy or not is up to you), cruelty and sadism are perpetrated by women with the same frequency or more as they are by men?
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Right, so you're really just sharing an intuition or some guesswork with us then? No harm in that certainly but for me, the only entry qualification required for a major in sadism, cruelty and perversion is being human. It's no biggie but you're making incredibly sweeping statements about males as someone with precisely zero evidence and yes, I take your point about the semantics of capability v actual (but how would you measure something like that? and no, I doubt I'll ever read anything by you again hence )
Edited by ExittheLemming - July 09 2014 at 15:52
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mariner14
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 28 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 18:12 |
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To Kati...surely cheaper car insurance for women is sexist regardless? However in a modern grown up community that is the EU. They have made it illegal to give cheaper insurance to women........because it was SEXIST.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65606
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 19:15 |
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^ It may be sexist but it's also fair; you're confusing stats with
discrimination-- don't know about Europe, but if there's a
driver with a good record in the US than those individuals are charged
less for their insurance. In the US that majority happens to be adult women. Just like a non-smoker might pay less
for health insurance or those in Wisconsin may be charged less for
flood insurance than those in Louisiana or Florida. Sometimes
you have to give someone the credit for staying clean and doing a good
job, male or female.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 19:38 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Right, so you're really just sharing an intuition or some guesswork with us then? No harm in that certainly but for me, the only entry qualification required for a major in sadism, cruelty and perversion is being human. It's no biggie but you're making incredibly sweeping statements about males as someone with precisely zero evidence and yes, I take your point about the semantics of capability v actual (but how would you measure something like that? and no, I doubt I'll ever read anything by you again hence)
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Alright none of us have factual evidence in the form of figures and statistics, and you seem to be saying that according to your knowledge, women are as prone to be perverted, cruel and sadist as men are. Fine, I have a different impression but I may be wrong. I do not claim that the impression I have (that men seem to be more prone to such behaviours) is due to biological differences, absolutely not. It probably has its origins in socio-cultural developments from very ancient times.
Since you say that I just talk out of intuition, guesswork, zero evidence... I may be getting into muddy waters here, but what about hard pornography? I'm not talking about sweet films of couples doing sex, I'm talking here about women being seriously humiliated and abused for the pleasure of some viewers. I don't think the opposite exists in the same measure (men being humiliated for the pleasure of female watchers, it may exist but surely not in the same measure). Is this not evidence?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 19:42 |
Atavachron wrote:
^ It may be sexist but it's also fair; you're confusing stats with
discrimination-- don't know about Europe, but if there's a
driver with a good record in the US than those individuals are charged
less for their insurance. In the US that majority happens to be adult women. Just like a non-smoker might pay less
for health insurance or those in Wisconsin may be charged less for
flood insurance than those in Louisiana or Florida. Sometimes
you have to give someone the credit for staying clean and doing a good
job, male or female.
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And that is exactly what the EU ruling says - give people credit for good driving regardless of gender.
Fair is when you are rewarded or penalised for your own driving record, it is not fair when you are rewarded or penalised for the driving of other people just because they are the same gender as you. Gender discrimination in insurance is the same as paying a cheaper premium because of your eye colour just because it has been "statistically" shown that people with green eyes have less car accidents than those with blue or brown eyes.
Edited by Dean - July 09 2014 at 19:44
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What?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 19:44 |
Gerinski wrote:
. Is this not evidence?
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Of course it isn't. You know better than that.
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What?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 19:45 |
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Generalizations are generalizations. If you've spent a lot of time watching pornography made by males and and females, I can say for certain that you have spent a lot of time watching pornography made by males and females...
At the risk of TMI, I have seen a lot of porn in my lifetime and it has never made go out and abuse any males or females or children or animals...
Edited by Slartibartfast - July 09 2014 at 19:52
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: July 09 2014 at 21:43 |
Dean wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
. Is this not evidence?
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Of course it isn't. You know better than that. |
Is it a result of random chance then?
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 01:59 |
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I just find it hard to believe that I'm somehow predisposed to be capable of more evil than someone else because of my gender. That an individual takes pleasure or thinks it normal to be cruel, sadistic to or humiliate another individual is a mental health issue not a gender issue.
Edited by ExittheLemming - July 10 2014 at 02:05
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65606
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 02:28 |
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^ It sure is, though it's a lesson I seem to have to relearn from time to time, whether misplaced resentment toward either gender by either gender. What would be helpful is if we could all put ourselves in the others' shoes.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 02:30 |
Atavachron wrote:
^ It sure is, though it's a lesson I seem to have to relearn from time to time, whether misplaced resentment toward either gender by either gender. What would be helpful is if we could all put ourselves in the others' shoes.
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yep, they'd be plenty to choose from
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 03:08 |
Gerinski wrote:
Dean wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
. Is this not evidence?
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Of course it isn't. You know better than that. |
Is it a result of random chance then? |
 No, it is you guessing. Guessing is not evidence or random chance.
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What?
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 05:06 |
Dean wrote:
 No, it is you guessing. Guessing is not evidence or random chance. |
I don't think it's my guessing, but I'm not gonna spend time looking for figures. If you think that there is an equal amount of hard pornography being made for female audience as there is for male audience, if you think that the number of convicts for sexual assault is roughly evenly splitted between males and females, if you think that cruel and sadistic acts in the last 100 years have been equally perpetrated by women as by men, if you think that men are equally subject of forced prostitution as women are, if you think that the cases where an adult kept a child or teenager captive and abused him / her have been equally perpetrated by women as they have been by men (take the Fritz case in Austria or the Ariel Castro case in the US as recent examples), if you think that in the last 100 years there have been as many female serial killers as there have been male ones, if you think that regimes wanting torturers employ women as torturers as much as they employ men for the task.... well, if you really think all of these I guess we live in different planets.
Perhaps the dreadful ads you get in your computer are about Thai and Russian males offering themselves to please European wealthy women, but that's not the case in my computer.
To ExittheLemming: I would not say that because of your gender you are more predisposed to evil than a female, that's a wrong way of looking at it.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 05:18 |
Gerinski wrote:
Dean wrote:
No, it is you guessing. Guessing is not evidence or random chance. |
I don't think it's my guessing, but I'm not gonna spend time looking for figures. If you think that there is an equal amount of hard pornography being made for female audience as there is for male audience, if you think that the number of convicts for sexual assault is roughly evenly splitted between males and females, if you think that cruel and sadistic acts in the last 100 years have been equally perpetrated by women as by men, if you think that men are equally subject of forced prostitution as women are, if you think that the cases where an adult kept a child or teenager captive and abused him / her have been equally perpetrated by women as they have been by men (take the Fritz case in Austria or the Ariel Castro case in the US as recent examples), if you think that in the last 100 years there have been as many female serial killers as there have been male ones, if you think that regimes wanting torturers employ women as torturers as much as they employ men for the task.... well, if you really think all of these I guess we live in different planets.
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You asked "Is this not evidence?". Anything that begins with "I think.." or "I don't think..." or "If you think..." is not evidence, it's a guess based on a perception and it is very likely to be true but it is still not evidence.
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What?
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 09:32 |
Gerinski wrote:
To ExittheLemming: I would not say that because of your gender you are more predisposed to evil than a female, that's a wrong way of looking at it. |
So the right way of looking at it is what? that
individuals are NOT predisposed to be capable of being more evil than
others solely because of their gender but those who do commit the evil
acts you have chosen are predominantly male ergo, external genitals plus
a huge slice of cherry picking sociological pie = men are more evil
than women?. You originally stated: in general men seem more capable to embrace perversion, cruelty or sadism than women
which must be the mother of all unwitting ironies re the perceived
nurturing virtues of womankind. However, I think you mean receptive to
treat as acceptable/normal that which we both might agree vehemently is
injurious to ALL. You haven't quoted stats but many others do in this
type of discussion and I'm starting to think that Reeves and Mortimer
were right: 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot. To get back
on topic re Feminism, I'll leave you with a quote from 60's militant
feminist Valerie Solanas, author of the manifesto Society For Cutting Up Men (SCUM) who attempted and failed to assassinate the (GAY) artist Andy Warhol: I consider that a moral act and I consider it immoral that I missed. I should have done target practice.
After
Solanas was released from the New York State Prison for Women in 1971, (why not a male prison, does equality stop at punitive action and must there be positive discrimination for female criminals convicted of the same crime as a male?)
she continued to stalk Warhol and others over the telephone and was
arrested again in November 1971. She was subsequently institutionalized
several times and then drifted into obscurity. Like I said before,
irrespective of the gender of the perpetrator, this is a mental health
issue NOT a gender issue.
Edited by ExittheLemming - July 10 2014 at 09:39
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mariner14
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 28 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 19:32 |
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Really...go through history...and the most important scientific breakthroughs have been male scientists....apart from Marie Curie......whom?
Here's a fact that will blow perception out of the water....more women abuse children than men......and I don't mean sexual.
Edited by mariner14 - July 10 2014 at 19:35
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65606
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Posted: July 10 2014 at 20:42 |
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Sometimes important scientific breakthroughs are not widely publicized as credited to a single individual. Important female scientists? How about the brilliant and almost completely unsung Dr. Mary Sherman who we probably wouldn't know at all except for her involvement in atom-smashing experiments in New Orleans in the 1960s and a rumored association with Oswald when he was in N.O.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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