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Joined: March 28 2010
Location: Alabama
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Points: 2866
Posted: November 10 2013 at 13:12
moshkito wrote:
Sheavy wrote:
I've quoted this more than a couple of times in the past and some certain people will maybe not like seeing it again, but for the sake of the question here, here is the summation at the end of the definition on the Prog Electronic page. "To sum up things, the progressive electronic subgenre is dedicated to intricate, moving, cerebral, intrusive electronic experiences that get involved in "kosmische", dark ambient, (post) industrial, droning, surreal or impressionist soundscapes territories."
AND that can be done by anyone anytime, but the musical tendencies these days are not conducive to this kind of creativity, and is what this thread and material is all about.
What you are saying is that no one can play the violin today, because it can't sound as good as it did 200 years ago! Or that it can't have the same moods as it did then ... and that means it comes off like music history can not have its own personality, or repeated later.
It can, and it will continue to do so!
I also have an issue with "surreal and impressionistic soundscapes..." which is like saying that you are not allowed to have an imagination and not tell the story of Carmen or Turandot in the conventional way with dialogue so you can understand the story that is being told.
Phaedra, by TD, thus, is just an impressionistic soundscape ... which might have been just a title, when the whole thing is just an act of love (if we can say that), all the way to an orgasm, but saying that is surreal, and impressionistic because you can't experience it?
BIZARRE!
I disagree that musical tendencies aren't conducive to this type of music today. Theres a plethora of bands making this sort of music today, that weren't around in the 70's, 80's or 90's.
The quote is "surreal or impressionistic soundscapes".
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
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Points: 17263
Posted: November 11 2013 at 02:33
aliano wrote:
Hi.My first post hereCould you recommend me some electronic stuff with electric guitar solos?Something like Ashra's Friendship or TD's Underwater Sunlight and 220 Volt.I'm also curious to know if there is any other bands that produce this kind of music
Have you heard this? Tangerine Dream alumnus Michael Hoenig and Ashra founder/guitarist Manuel Gottsching – Early Water
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Online
Points: 17546
Posted: November 12 2013 at 11:30
Sheavy wrote:
... I disagree that musical tendencies aren't conducive to this type of music today. Theres a plethora of bands making this sort of music today, that weren't around in the 70's, 80's or 90's.
The quote is "surreal or impressionistic soundscapes".
Fixed the misquote. Didn't change the context any, either!
The concern is not about the tendencies themselves, but the music itself. Not many folks appreciate Dream Theater (for example) for its classical idealism in their music and long cuts. In fact, I'm the only one discussing it in this board, and using the reference in a review, when most folks called some of their stuff in the past 5 years just not good enough because they are stuck on the album they liked, and think it is metal crap and James voice is not an instrument but some crappy instrument!
People are listening to a sound they like, not the music!
So, anyone saying that "progressive" electronic or rock music doesn't exist, means they are listening to something else, not the music itself!
Edited by moshkito - November 12 2013 at 11:31
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
I hope that one day this often overshadowed field of sound, gets treated the way it should. I hear Mozart and Chopin in TD. Then again, I hear something completely unique....like taking trips to the outskirts of the solar system.
I've been listening to Rubycon this morning
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Points: 5898
Posted: March 01 2014 at 05:49
I get more of that "outer space" feel from preceding Tangerine Dream LPs of Alpha Centauri, Zeit and Atem. The following trilogy of Phaedra, Rubycon and Ricochet give off a more "ancient civilization" atmosphere instead. Not really sure why, though.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
I hope that one day this often overshadowed field of sound, gets treated the way it should. I hear Mozart and Chopin in TD. Then again, I hear something completely unique....like taking trips to the outskirts of the solar system.
I've been listening to Rubycon this morning
Regardless of the ultimate direction taken by PA in the years to come, Progressive Electronic represents the only slot we currently have into which we will have to place the majority of prescient music i.e. cos it won't sound like rawk or qualify as Prog by the current definitions nor will it attack convention by lobbing hand me down grenades from the sniper's nest afforded to that butter fingered catch-all: avant garde. I have this nagging feeling that
the seamless fusing of electronic/acoustic audio and digital/analogue media sources where the origins
of all are rendered inextricable will be an area of huge growth. (Stockhausen's Licht opera cycle kinda hints at this in places but I'm thinking of a visual, textual, tactile? perhaps a tad creepy and auditory assault on the senses - given the advent of the internet, the exclusivity of the auditory phenomenon we define as music must now have a shelf life?) I ain't that crazy about any of the artists in PE just
now (I saw Tangerine Dream live in Glasgow during the late 70's and for
me, they made concrete blocks seem boisterously effervescent)..However, I reckon in less than 10 years none of us will be able to frame meaningful references that link historic popular music to the wondrous beasties that scuttle around under the Progressive Electronic pebble rock boulder.
BTW David, if you can hear Chopin and Mozart in Tangerine Dream then that is proof, if any were needed, that cosmiche Buskers in the future will work from home
Joined: April 12 2008
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Points: 5898
Posted: March 01 2014 at 06:59
Not to mention that guitar-based music still lags way behind electronic music in terms of taking advantage of developments in production/recording technology, and has done so for several decades by now. In fact, that's one of the main reasons I got into electronic music to begin with back in 2010 or so.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
Not to mention that guitar-based music still lags way behind electronic music in terms of taking advantage of developments in production/recording technology, and has done so for several decades by now. In fact, that's one of the main reasons I got into electronic music to begin with back in 2010 or so.
Fair comment and demonstrably true but
spare a thought for your average PC literate axe slinger - he/she has
been excluded from the digital revolution since the advent of MIDI
(1981) purely because music software developers could only author
programs or interfaces that were keyboard centric. Guitar synthesis has
been a black art for a very long time due in no small measure to the
difficulties in replicating the subtle performance nuances, string
bending/legato, vibrato and microtonal aspects of guitar playing to be
understood by a PC. There have been improvements in the tracking capabilities of the software involved (e.g. Jam Origin
from Scandinavia) but given that this problem is now over 30 years old,
I think it fairly safe to assume that a solution was never a priority
for the software companies like Steinberg, Cakewalk, Apple (Logic), Mark
of the Unicorn etc because it was never considered viable to invite the
troublesome luddite six stringer to the DAW party. Please don't confuse
Kaspar Hauser with the spoiled kid who plays in his own faeces and
complains that a social worker touched him on the bottom.
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Points: 5898
Posted: March 01 2014 at 07:38
Even then, today many rock producers don't seem to have any idea what to do with digital production. Hence the recent fad for going back to 1970s/1980s-style analog recording.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
Even then, today many rock producers don't seem to have any idea what to do with digital production. Hence the recent fad for going back to 1970s/1980s-style analog recording.
Yes, it's interesting that even a casual appraisal of what types of digital audio plug-in are available for the modern producer reveals a preponderance of pseudo analogue retro beasties e.g. add grit, grunge, dirt, artefacts, aliasing and warmth to your carefully prepared but sterile digital recordings with the 64 bit floating point Putrifier Destructor with an algorythm based on George Martin's favorite Abbey Road hardware filters. We appear to be creating a soundworld in which we pay contra cleaners to dirty the windows
Joined: August 27 2006
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Posted: March 01 2014 at 11:10
Radio Massacre International and Heldon would be my favourites and perhaps it's not a coincidence that both feature guitar, but it's the mellotron that really makes Radio Massacre International my favourite Electronic band. Edgar Froese is great too.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20625
Posted: March 02 2014 at 11:52
Not a huge fan of prog electronic but I do play TD and some Eno from time to time....particularly Zeit , Phaedra, Rubycon by TD and Another Green World and Science by Eno.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Posted: March 03 2014 at 09:30
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Even then, today many rock producers don't seem to have any idea what to do with digital production. Hence the recent fad for going back to 1970s/1980s-style analog recording.
I SOOOOOOOOOOO agree with this, and I kinda think that Steven Wilson is a good example. Like "moving an instrument" from left to the center and behind, really makes it all different.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Posted: March 03 2014 at 09:48
dr wu23 wrote:
Not a huge fan of prog electronic but I do play TD and some Eno from time to time....particularly Zeit , Phaedra, Rubycon by TD and Another Green World and Science by Eno.
Interesting to hear that some folks pointed out their vision for these, and even brought out historical mentions and such.
Both Zeit and Atem, for me, are VERY ambient, and I think they kinda help bring the idea/sound to the foreground.
Phaedra, was a more "literal story" for me, than otherwise, though there is a similar moment (shorter) in Atem as well. Phaedra I think is just a title, and not necessarily anything else for a piece of music that builds up to a crescendo, similar to an orgasm in sex. I don't even think the title, helps the feeling inside the whole piece, and could have a tendency to distort the real issue, but I doubt that many of us would have liked to see it titled "Sex 101" or something just as crude.
Rubycon, is similar to Edgar's "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale" for me, and I do not think that it was meant to be one thing or another, and that it might just have been a better study and definition to some of their new equipment at the time.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
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Points: 5898
Posted: March 03 2014 at 12:26
While we're at the subject, are TD still worth seeing live? They're playing in Copenhagen in April...
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
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Points: 10841
Posted: March 03 2014 at 13:16
TD is playing in Paris in may, and a few people (some French ambient/cosmic musicians) discouraged me to go and see them: not only it's quite expensive (50 euros for the cheapest places!), but these musicians criticized what Froese may have produced for a few decades...
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Progressive Electronic music?
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moshkito wrote:
Could you recommend me some electronic stuff with electric guitar solos?Something like Ashra's Friendship or TD's Underwater Sunlight and 220 Volt.I'm also curious to know if there is any other bands that produce this kind of music
. Phoenix Rising was one of my favourite albums of last year.
