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Aussie-Byrd-Brother View Drop Down
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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 13:11
Nick/Cstack!

I remember that Aussie girl Orithani had a minor commercial hit around about the same time as that Jackson movie came out. Tom Ozric on the Archives said to me `There's some song on the work radio, I think it must be Santana, it's got this wailing guitar over every inch of it...' lol! Turns out it was her song!

In regards to the Beiber film, the only way that could have made it better is if they took the 3D even further, made it a true multimedia extravaganza - why not have planes that fly over the audience dropping sh*t on them, all to a 360 degree surround sound mix of Bieber laughing manically?! Roger's `The Wall' eat your heart out!
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Points: 7865 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 12:57
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I don't think Justin Bieber has a full-length concert movie yet.  What would it be called, "Give Me Back My Monkey!" ??  What a w*nker. 

Sadly, Cstack3, Justin Bieber DID have a full-length concert/doco movie, in 3D no less! I only remember this because several girls in my office mentioned when it came out they were off to watch it....think I said something like `Well, you might as well have just taken that money....and flushed it down the toilet!"

That is freakin' SICK!  
Michael Jackson's swan song movie "This Is It" was pretty good, all things considered.  His guitarist, the Aussie lass Orithani, was excellent. 


your right. It's madness!!!
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 7865 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 12:56
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

You don't wanna know what they listen to. You would cry in your soup. I say soup because you claim to be 'so old' so I assume you have no teeth. Lol. Na seriously though Dean you are very open minded and offer a lot of great insights to topics that revolve around youth or experience. Are you of the BOOMER generation?

Let's say I have most of my teeth, I am British so would be fitted into the bad-teeth stereotype whether it was true or not - soup is not something I enjoy, I honestly don't see the point of it. I have no real concept of what a boomer is and don't specifically associate myself with that generation eventhough technically I belong, nor would I associate myself with Generation X. I actually think the generation that invented Prog (ie MY generation) are the inbetweenies that come from that overlap between the two - too young to be beatniks or hippies, to old to be punks and that is why Prog is so difficult to pin down to any single ideal, subculture, style or motivation.


Well I am happy to know how you feel. I certainly am glad that you have your teeth As well. Being British and having them at your age is a real plus. :) also. If I had to classify myself I would definitely be from the BOOMERANG generation where by I go out and live on my own for quite a while and then come back home to live with my parents because of the spoils of the job market and economy that a lot of the Boomer gen f**ked up and corrupted. Glad to hear you don't define your age to any class or subculture. Keep it open as you would for the love of prog. :)
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 18063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 10:27
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

^And you know, moshkito, something that sucks is that keyboardist Jurgen Dollase, is completely and permanently out of music. (He is now a gastronomist-food and restaurant critic- in Europe) He was so important to the groups in which he was a member, couldn't imagine Wallenstein or the Cosmic Jokers, etc. without him.
 
ah but Cosmic Jokers were not really a band, not in the sense that the players were members of a band. Wink
 
Maybe that is an issue that musicians have ... both sides of that album are phenomenal and a tribute to musicians listening to each other and making a "feel" extend itself very well ... and you don't need drugs to do that ... just ... some quiet, and some listening!
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Points: 2689 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 10:10
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

^And you know, moshkito, something that sucks is that keyboardist Jurgen Dollase, is completely and permanently out of music. (He is now a gastronomist-food and restaurant critic- in Europe) He was so important to the groups in which he was a member, couldn't imagine Wallenstein or the Cosmic Jokers, etc. without him.
 
ah but Cosmic Jokers were not really a band, not in the sense that the players were members of a band. Wink
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Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 10:08
Some popular bands were a bit progressive. Some still are. I think Peter Gabriel is very prog!
For the most part, it seems to stay out of the mainstream though.
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Points: 8718 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 20:29
^And you know, moshkito, something that sucks is that keyboardist Jurgen Dollase, is completely and permanently out of music. (He is now a gastronomist-food and restaurant critic- in Europe) He was so important to the groups in which he was a member, couldn't imagine Wallenstein or the Cosmic Jokers, etc. without him.
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Points: 18063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 17:24
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm My Yessongs vinyl is a tripple album - you need to take your's back and get a refund.
 
So was mine ... and I sold it away a long time ago ... and got the CD instead ... I miss the art work though! And you know that I am nutz about art!
  
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

...
I'm curious about something-what was the reception Wallenstein got in America in the seventies? Were they played on the FM radio? Did they tour in North America back then?
...
 
I know that Guy played everything that the Cosmic Couriers had and then some ... and you probably never heard anyone else mention that ... this stuff, simply was not radio material (per se!) and not stuff that even folks here can enjoy and appreciate like morons like me can, or Guy could, regardless of what he was doing while the whole album played ... !!! Gads ... even Tarot made the grade ... and many other things! But I doubt, sincerely, that ANYONE else ever has played these things and gave them the attention and care that they deserved, even for the artistic courage, if nothing else!
 
To my knowledge, none of these folks EVER made it to America, and even Manuel Gottsching recent thing at UCLA fell apart ... and tells you that Royce Hall is too big and too famous for anyone in the Cosmic Couriers and places like California can be really uncouth and bad about these things ... I seriously doubt that even Klaus Schulze will ever make it to America ... maybe after he dies!
 
 


Edited by moshkito - April 28 2013 at 17:38
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Points: 18063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 17:16
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

^I always thought he was kind of meh.  People like David Bowie and Prince were much better pop song writers and entertainers IMO.
 
Prince, is already AFTER MJ.
 
MJ is much more important and a veritable force in one element that it's hard for folks outside America to understand ... most black musicians had audiences that were 80/20 or more black folks ... and when you went to see MJ, you had almost a 50/50 mix ... and if that is not important to you in America history, then you do not know, or understand the plight of the black person in America, and even the unspoken things that happened in the arts, like Hollywood being the main reason why a lot of black music was buried in the 50's in favor of the "movie star" and the "stars" that the studios were making with film! ... check out Tom Dowd's DVD for more information on this time and place.
 
But you also want to take a look at Tom Dowd's thing, keeping with Orson Welles in mind, and specially "Citizen Kane" ... Orson was not some idiot that did not care, and he knew what was going on ... and was quite a rebel!
 
BTW, it also helps explain the issues that led to the WORLD WIDE cultural revolution that television and radio brought up slowly but surely ... I don't think that the founding fathers of radio, tv, and movies, ever thought ... they would change the world with their pictures, news and fun!
 
In fact, we still do not believe it, and about half of this whole world still has no idea, and some areas, they are making sure no one STILL can not see those things or hear it ... !!!! Think about it!


Edited by moshkito - April 28 2013 at 17:47
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 17:10
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Six years of reading the same old bollocks can have a similar effect.
 
I think it's more getting people to think a little more, before they post something ... it's almost always the same question and now I can see why you leave the threads on to continue forever ... so people stop asking some of the questions yet again.
As I said, six years of reading the same old bollocks...
 
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

 
You enjoy having a mutt around?
I'm more a cat person myself. A cat and some insekt repellant and I'm happy.


Edited by Dean - April 28 2013 at 17:10
What?
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Points: 18063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 17:05
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by sukmytoe sukmytoe wrote:

If album sales had anything to do with the quality of music then I guess "prog" would be in trouble as it would mean that Michael Jackson's music was of a far better quality than anything that we like here. Heavy sales equates to selling many albums to many people and Justin Bieber will know all about that. You sell more music to musical airheads than you do to serious listeners as there are way more airheads out there who are interested in fads and catchy jingles as opposed to more complex music that you have to spend time with to get what it's about.
90125 and the like were never meant for the serious prog listener - they are aimed at the masses.

 


Yyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss!!!
 
But remember that this was NOT the fact in the 50's and 60's ... and early 70's ... this was not just a "progressive" revolution" it was also a "jazz" revolution and many other experimental music ... and all too often we fail to remind ourselves of this fact ... !!!
 
Look, and I say this all the time ... the 60's was about the MEDIA explosion, and music, along with anything else came to the forefront ... there is no "secret" to it, and no such thing as it was there in the late 60's and was not there in the 90's ... the media had already exposed it ... up to and including the famous one about the gun going off in the kids head in VietNam and other things ... the "reality" was now HERE ... but we do not, today, understand how much this was a part of our growing up and learning.
 
Today, the only thing they have learned, BY COMPARISON, is about advertising ... not finding out the world exists, because part of the media scoop these days is to make sure that you do not know or understand ... the other side of the world, or ANYTHING ELSE, except the top ten ... it's "advertising" making sure you pay your "daddy"!
 
So, prog, and anything else, was as popular as anything else and how far you looked ... I could not get the LA TIMES to give a damn about music in London and Europe, so myself and Guy did about 2 or 3 times a month a jaunt to LA to get Melody Maker and see a couple of films along the way ... stuff that London had, but America didn't!
 
The issue STILL IS ... how much do you want to see? How much do you want to hear?
 
Answer that first!
 
 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 18063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 16:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Six years of reading the same old bollocks can have a similar effect.
 
I think it's more getting people to think a little more, before they post something ... it's almost always the same question and now I can see why you leave the threads on to continue forever ... so people stop asking some of the questions yet again.
 
It can be disconcerting, also, to find how musically uneducated (not the ABC's -- but history of music, even in general) ... but they will stand here and fight for their favorites, and SD will also stomp and agree with everything you say! You enjoy having a mutt around?
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 18063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 16:39
Originally posted by silverpot silverpot wrote:

The only other kind of music I was aware of at the time (apart from older genres) was disco. So, I suppose prog rock was rather mainstream. 
 
Hahahahahaha ... love this ...
 
Party
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Points: 8718 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 16:28
I'm curious about something-what was the reception Wallenstein got in America in the seventies? Were they played on the FM radio? Did they tour in North America back then? Any of you guys recall?
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Points: 18063 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 16:17
Originally posted by Prog_Traveller Prog_Traveller wrote:

... My official answer is yes to some degree it was. To some degree it still is. The 80's and 90's not so much. Smile
 
It was just as good in the 80's and 90's and Guy Guden's shows in Santa Barbara show this really well ... the fact that we had gotten kids by then, only meant that we could not go out and buy another 10 albums, and could only afford 1 or 2 or the wife would kill us!!!!!
 
The music was ALWAYS there ... we either noticed or not. Peter Hammill never stopped ... and saying that his middle period is not good is insane ... his 80's and 90's is absolutely unequivocally his very best!
 
We just didn't hear it, because we were stuck in a top ten mentality and everything had to sound like the Gods of yesterday ... we just don't learn, do we? what the meaning of the process and "progressive" was really about! Continually stuck in our diapers and googoogirls that we wanted to make it with!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 1719 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 10:47
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm My Yessongs vinyl is a tripple album - you need to take your's back and get a refund.


Cry  It's been a lonnnng time since I pulled that out of storage!  I never cared for the sound quality of the vinyl, and since I saw that show live (Sept. 22, 1972, Arie Crown Theater, Chicago) I feel I saw a superior <FONT size=1 ="Apple-style-span"><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 9px" ="Apple-style-span">performance.  They were simply amazing. </SPAN>

<FONT size=1 ="Apple-style-span"><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 9px" ="Apple-style-span"></SPAN>

<FONT size=1 ="Apple-style-span"><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 9px" ="Apple-style-span">It had a cool booklet as I recall...</SPAN>

Alas Roger Dean's artwork outstripped the quality of the recording by a long way, even after the alleged overdubs and piecing it together from various gigs as well as the Rainbow show from the film version. I had the poster on my bedroom wall for sometime before I decided to paint all four walls (and the ceiling) in a poor imitation of that alien vista (later wallpapered over in floral prints by my sister when I moved out). Still, it's my favourite live Yes album, partly for nostalgic reasons, partly because of the rawness of it and partly for the live versions of Trooper and Perpetual Change...

My favorite track on it is Yours Is No Disgrace, with Steve absolutely wailing . . .
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 04:40
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm My Yessongs vinyl is a tripple album - you need to take your's back and get a refund.

Cry  It's been a lonnnng time since I pulled that out of storage!  I never cared for the sound quality of the vinyl, and since I saw that show live (Sept. 22, 1972, Arie Crown Theater, Chicago) I feel I saw a superior performance.  They were simply amazing. 

It had a cool booklet as I recall...
Alas Roger Dean's artwork outstripped the quality of the recording by a long way, even after the alleged overdubs and piecing it together from various gigs as well as the Rainbow show from the film version. I had the poster on my bedroom wall for sometime before I decided to paint all four walls (and the ceiling) in a poor imitation of that alien vista (later wallpapered over in floral prints by my sister when I moved out). Still, it's my favourite live Yes album, partly for nostalgic reasons, partly because of the rawness of it and partly for the live versions of Trooper and Perpetual Change...
What?
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Points: 2673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2013 at 16:43
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by sukmytoe sukmytoe wrote:

If album sales had anything to do with the quality of music then I guess "prog" would be in trouble as it would mean that Michael Jackson's music was of a far better quality than anything that we like here. Heavy sales equates to selling many albums to many people and Justin Bieber will know all about that. You sell more music to musical airheads than you do to serious listeners as there are way more airheads out there who are interested in fads and catchy jingles as opposed to more complex music that you have to spend time with to get what it's about.
90125 and the like were never meant for the serious prog listener - they are aimed at the masses.

 


Yyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss!!!
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooo!!! Pig
 
A lot of really dumb things can be said on this subject and all of it to do with elitism and pretentiousness - the whole mindset that what you like is better than anything everyone else likes because you are a better person and have better taste and better appreciation of music. Calling people who buy music you don't like "airheads" is playground taunting and best left there.
 
I own Thriller, I can't say that I liked it much after the first two or three plays and it sits in my album rack unplayed since 1983, but I do recognise its quality on all levels, I can also recognise that a lot of music that we call Prog falls short even if I do like it a lot and play it regularly.
 
The age-group and social profile of the people in the 70s who were into Prog are the same demographic who listen to whatever was considered "serious" music in later decades - those people didn't listen to Donny Osmond or Bananrama or the Spice Girls or Justin Bieber. When making these comparisons you have to compare like with like - comparing the best of one genre you like to the worse of another that you would never buy regardless of which decade you were born in is specious, just as comparing whatever is "in" with the current generation of young white male well-educated types (I dunno, I'm too old to even guess what they listen to but I bet it's not Justin Bieber) to the teeny-bopper music of the 70s is fallacious.


The cool kids today? My guess is they listen to the kind of music on their car stereos that can be measured on the  Richter Scale (and it's probably on a car that their dad bought for them). I grew up in the sort of environment you described, though I was one of the oddballs at my school, so I only have an idea of what the cool kids listened to. You would be right though, Justin Bieber to that crowd was just an object of ridicule, hardly a sought after musical artist.
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Points: 7411 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2013 at 15:28
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I don't think Justin Bieber has a full-length concert movie yet.  What would it be called, "Give Me Back My Monkey!" ??  What a w*nker. 

Sadly, Cstack3, Justin Bieber DID have a full-length concert/doco movie, in 3D no less! I only remember this because several girls in my office mentioned when it came out they were off to watch it....think I said something like `Well, you might as well have just taken that money....and flushed it down the toilet!"

That is freakin' SICK!  


Michael Jackson's swan song movie "This Is It" was pretty good, all things considered.  His guitarist, the Aussie lass Orithani, was excellent. 
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Points: 7411 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 27 2013 at 15:24
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm My Yessongs vinyl is a tripple album - you need to take your's back and get a refund.

Cry  It's been a lonnnng time since I pulled that out of storage!  I never cared for the sound quality of the vinyl, and since I saw that show live (Sept. 22, 1972, Arie Crown Theater, Chicago) I feel I saw a superior performance.  They were simply amazing. 

It had a cool booklet as I recall...
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