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progbethyname 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
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 Posted: April 26 2013 at 09:39 |
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I agree with a lot of what has been said on this forum topic, but to label an album as 'most successful' just because it sold the most might be a mistake. 90125 of Yes's career was their commercial hit, but to say that album is more successful than Relayer or Close to the edge would be a mistake. We should be clear that on an artistic, defining moment in prog music's history those albums are the real 'successors.' As far as making $$ (if you wanna call that grand success) yes, 90125 takes it. Anyway. Let's be careful with our terms. :) Success of an album should not be defined by its sales or wealth. The album should be defined by its place and effect in prog music's history. Think of how bands attribute their success and influence to Yes and a lot will say it wasn't because of 90125!!! Lol. Prog was so incredibly popular in the 1970's. More popular than any other generation. :)
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 08:37 |
 Lord_Adon wrote:
If prog were popular it would have been called pop.
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It was but it wasn't.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 07:38 |
chopper wrote:
Cactus Choir wrote:
chopper wrote:
Cactus Choir wrote:
The likes of ELP and Yes were at their commercial peak as prog bands,
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but 90125 is Yes' most succesful album, I believe, and is hardly their most prog. |
Is it the biggest in sales terms?
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Yes. |
 love that album
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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chopper
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 07:22 |
Cactus Choir wrote:
chopper wrote:
Cactus Choir wrote:
The likes of ELP and Yes were at their commercial peak as prog bands,
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but 90125 is Yes' most succesful album, I believe, and is hardly their most prog. |
Is it the biggest in sales terms?
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Yes.
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
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Points: 2689
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 00:45 |
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Every genre of music is a fad, but some stick around longer than others. In the 50s when Harry Belafonte started having Calypso hits many thought that Calypso would replace Rock 'n' Roll
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Atavachron
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 21:28 |
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^ But, briefly, it was pop in the same sense that Led Zeppelin was pop. The fact that something is pop doesn't mean it has to be Seals & Crofts. I hate to say it but at its height of popularity, Prog rock was a fad. A good one, but a fad all the same. After the wave crashed it was left with a small but devoted fanbase, and was without doubt no longer a pop medium.
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Lord_Adon
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Joined: April 25 2013
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 21:21 |
If prog were popular it would have been called pop.
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silverpot
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 841
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 17:11 |
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The only other kind of music I was aware of at the time (apart from older genres) was disco. So, I suppose prog rock was rather mainstream.
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
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Points: 7865
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 14:04 |
richardh wrote:
progbethyname wrote:
Accessibility is a key term that should be closely attached to the 70's generation of prog musicianship. I look at GENESIS as the front runners for being absolute genius's by the way they shaped their sound to adapt with the times and create massive hits. You look at how much Genesis's overall sound changed from the years 1971-1976. Their was a reason for it. The album, TRICK OF THE TAIL ushered in a new, more accessible style of prog that people of the 70's gen really freakin' enjoyed. As much as we like to cut up and make fun of GENESIS for just how much their sound changed, especially in the 80's, but their was a big reason for it. Long story short, when I think of GENESIS I think of creative expression and accessibility. They are Geniuses and absolute masters by how they combined pop and prog so wonderfully together. I do not care what anyone says, but I think they are the titans of the prog world and still the big leaders. In 1976 they pretty much created the start of the Neo Prog genre. Then they took it one step further in the 80's by blending a new style of a more simple and stylized version of pop music by adding prog to the mix. MASTERS I SAY!!! MASTERS! |
I agree apart from the last sentence I love the prog/pop balance of those late seventies albums but in the eighties they became very inconsistent musically. Some tracks like Domino and Home By The Sea are absolute gems but then there was dross like We Can't Dance and Invisible Touch. I think Banks wanted to keep one foot in the prog camp while Phil and Mike were clearly balancing the band more towards pop . You can deduce this by what they were doing with their own side and solo projects.That was their choice of course and its been my choice to download the tracks that I like and avoid 80% of their output from 1980 onwards. |
Agreed. You have a good point here as usual, and I will agree upon the 80% figure of musical 80's output to avoid. Lol. I think I only 20% as well, but that 20% is so dam good regardless of its increased pop content. :) Anyway, good talking with you again. :)
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
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Points: 7865
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 13:58 |
Cactus Choir wrote:
Looking at the US chart positions for Genesis albums is pretty interesting. The likes of ELP and Yes were at their commercial peak as prog bands, but Genesis got more successful the less prog (and from my point of view less interesting) they got:1969 From Genesis to Revelation - 170 1970 Trespass — 1971 Nursery Cryme — 1972 Foxtrot — 1973 Selling England by the Pound - 70 1974 The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway - 41 1976 A Trick of the Tail - 31 1977 Wind & Wuthering - 26 1978 ...And Then There Were Three... - 14 1980 Duke - 11 1981 Abacab - 7 1983 Genesis - 9 1986 Invisible Touch - 3 1991 We Can't Dance - 4
Sad isnt it. WE CAN'T DANCE is their highest selling album. So many people out there, in my opinion, are such dorks and wouldnt gravitate towards prog because of its layered intricacies. A lot of people are lazy, especially when it even comes to listening to music. :(
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 29438
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 13:48 |
Going For The One was their biggest seller in the UK. I remember it being included on the top hundred selling albums of the seventies (UK) and there were very few prog albums in that list outside of Pink Floyd.
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dogen
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 09 2012
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Points: 43
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 10:21 |
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Yes it was popular. I was there!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 10:09 |
Bitterblogger wrote:
I feel, despite the POV of an earlier post, that significant numbers of the mainstream rock press did hasten the Prog genre decline in the '70's halcyon era. It never attracted enough chicks, and that is anathema to what rock critics think popular music should do. |
The critics have certainly played a stellar role in ensuring it remains dead and buried (in the mainstream). I guess when prog was popular, they couldn't really fight it but they were free to ignore it and pretend that a significant chapter in the evolution of rock never happened at all.
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 10:07 |
chopper wrote:
Cactus Choir wrote:
The likes of ELP and Yes were at their commercial peak as prog bands,
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but 90125 is Yes' most succesful album, I believe, and is hardly their most prog. |
Is it the biggest in sales terms? It got to number 5 in the US while both Fragile (3) and Close to the Edge (4) got higher and had lengthy stays on the chart. And it was a bit of a one-off on the back of Owner of a Lonely Heart being a hit. Unlike Genesis they didn't keep getting albums in the top 10 through the 80s, so I'd still argue their commercial peak was in the 70s prog era.
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 09:57 |
Cactus Choir wrote:
The likes of ELP and Yes were at their commercial peak as prog bands,
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but 90125 is Yes' most succesful album, I believe, and is hardly their most prog.
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1043
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 09:47 |
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Looking at the US chart positions for Genesis albums is pretty interesting.
The likes of ELP and Yes were at their commercial peak as prog bands, but Genesis got more successful the less prog (and from my point of view less interesting) they got:
1969 From Genesis to Revelation - 170
1970 Trespass —
1971 Nursery Cryme —
1972 Foxtrot —
1973 Selling England by the Pound - 70
1974 The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway - 41
1976 A Trick of the Tail - 31
1977 Wind & Wuthering - 26
1978 ...And Then There Were Three... - 14
1980 Duke - 11
1981 Abacab - 7
1983 Genesis - 9
1986 Invisible Touch - 3
1991 We Can't Dance - 4
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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sukmytoe
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 18 2013
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 291
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 01:36 |
richardh wrote:
progbethyname wrote:
Accessibility is a key term that should be closely attached to the 70's generation of prog musicianship. I look at GENESIS as the front runners for being absolute genius's by the way they shaped their sound to adapt with the times and create massive hits. You look at how much Genesis's overall sound changed from the years 1971-1976. Their was a reason for it. The album, TRICK OF THE TAIL ushered in a new, more accessible style of prog that people of the 70's gen really freakin' enjoyed. As much as we like to cut up and make fun of GENESIS for just how much their sound changed, especially in the 80's, but their was a big reason for it. Long story short, when I think of GENESIS I think of creative expression and accessibility. They are Geniuses and absolute masters by how they combined pop and prog so wonderfully together. I do not care what anyone says, but I think they are the titans of the prog world and still the big leaders. In 1976 they pretty much created the start of the Neo Prog genre. Then they took it one step further in the 80's by blending a new style of a more simple and stylized version of pop music by adding prog to the mix. MASTERS I SAY!!! MASTERS! |
I agree apart from the last sentence
I love the prog/pop balance of those late seventies albums but in the eighties they became very inconsistent musically. Some tracks like Domino and Home By The Sea are absolute gems but then there was dross like We Can't Dance and Invisible Touch. I think Banks wanted to keep one foot in the prog camp while Phil and Mike were clearly balancing the band more towards pop . You can deduce this by what they were doing with their own side and solo projects.That was their choice of course and its been my choice to download the tracks that I like and avoid 80% of their output from 1980 onwards. |
I don't know that I agree that it was Collins and Rutherford that took the band in a pop direction more than what Banks did - it must be remembered that Banks was essentially the "leader" of Genesis, a position which he very jealously guarded. Having watched many interviews with the band members I do perceive that it was Banks that took the band to where they ultimately went, more so than the other two. Looking at Banks's first few solo albums they were a lot commercially weaker than anything that Collins or Rutherford did but they weren't any less pop in flavor. I do also perceive that it was Banks who was the weaker musician taking into account any of the other members - he was very skilled with the use of keyboards but as a writer he never equalled any of those who left with his solo output. My sense is that his musical contribution to the band was massive however he was the weaker when it came to pure musicality in the end. I don't know it for a fact but I get the distinct impression that Gabriel's and Hackett's leaving of the band was very much engineered by Banks in a few ways.
Edited by sukmytoe - April 25 2013 at 01:57
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 29438
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 01:27 |
progbethyname wrote:
Accessibility is a key term that should be closely attached to the 70's generation of prog musicianship. I look at GENESIS as the front runners for being absolute genius's by the way they shaped their sound to adapt with the times and create massive hits. You look at how much Genesis's overall sound changed from the years 1971-1976. Their was a reason for it. The album, TRICK OF THE TAIL ushered in a new, more accessible style of prog that people of the 70's gen really freakin' enjoyed. As much as we like to cut up and make fun of GENESIS for just how much their sound changed, especially in the 80's, but their was a big reason for it. Long story short, when I think of GENESIS I think of creative expression and accessibility. They are Geniuses and absolute masters by how they combined pop and prog so wonderfully together. I do not care what anyone says, but I think they are the titans of the prog world and still the big leaders. In 1976 they pretty much created the start of the Neo Prog genre. Then they took it one step further in the 80's by blending a new style of a more simple and stylized version of pop music by adding prog to the mix. MASTERS I SAY!!! MASTERS! |
I agree apart from the last sentence
I love the prog/pop balance of those late seventies albums but in the eighties they became very inconsistent musically. Some tracks like Domino and Home By The Sea are absolute gems but then there was dross like We Can't Dance and Invisible Touch. I think Banks wanted to keep one foot in the prog camp while Phil and Mike were clearly balancing the band more towards pop . You can deduce this by what they were doing with their own side and solo projects.That was their choice of course and its been my choice to download the tracks that I like and avoid 80% of their output from 1980 onwards.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9080
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 23:20 |
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It was popular, and it was mismanaged on commercial radio for the most part, or it might have fared better in the long run commercially. The big big names got tons of airplay, but the obscure groups stayed obscure because they got little or no airplay. Among the few non UK/North American groups I ever remember hearing on Montreal's FM station were PFM, Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk. It became like another hit parade unfortunately. A glance here at the thousands of reviews for relatively few artists and the numerous artists with very few reviews shows that this is still the case. Luckily now at least one can largely one's own decisions about what to listen to
Edited by kenethlevine - April 24 2013 at 23:21
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elpprogster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2005
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 463
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Posted: April 24 2013 at 18:26 |
Just an example how Prog bands were sucessful in the 70´s: lokk at ELP charting: Emerson Lake & Palmer: #4 UK, #18 US; Tarkus: #1 UK, #9 US; Pictures at an Exhibition: # 3 UK, #10 US; Trilogy: # 2 UK, #5 US; Brain Salad Surgery: # 5 Uk, # 11 US; Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends: #5 UK, #4 US; Works, Vol. I: # 9 Uk, #12 US; Works, Vol. II: #20 UK, # 37 US; Love Beach: #48 UK, #55 US.
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Was prog actually popular in the 70s??
