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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: When will 'Pop music' stop?
    Posted: April 23 2013 at 08:57
More precisely without title length limitations: When will the 'contemporary music for the young' stop being called 'Pop music' and some new name will be coined and a new era started?

What we today refer to as 'Pop music' started (I would say) with the British Beat and the modern (60's) Folk (Joan Baez, Dylan, Donovan, Neil Diamond, John Denver etc).
Some might argue that classic American Rock&Roll was already 'Pop' but in my view it was just Rock&Roll and I normally do not associate it with the term 'Pop music'.

We are in the 2010's and 'modern music for the young' has passed through many seemingly disparate styles, Glam, Hard-Rock, Heavy Metal, Punk, New Wave, Synth Pop, Techno, Trance, Rap, Hip-Hop... and (in my view at least) most people still include all of these in their definition of 'Pop music' (or perhaps not?).

Of course the standard highly-commercial, easy and melodic Pop is still well alive (stuff like Celine Dion, Robbie Williams etc) but for the more different and newcomer genres such as the ones mentioned above, what do you think it will take to drop the term Pop and start a new era with some new generic name for the 'music of the young'?

Or will the term 'Pop music' remain forever associated with 'contemporary music for the young' regardless of how different that music will have become from its original ancestors?
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Points: 66290 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:07
Pop = POPular so I think that it will always be associated with whatever the media conglomerates tell the world is POPular.
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Points: 5154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:20
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Pop = POPular so I think that it will always be associated with whatever the media conglomerates tell the world is POPular.
Charleston, Big Band music, Jazz Standards or classic Rock&Roll / Rockabilly were highly popular in their time are not part of what we today refer to with the term 'Pop music' (or 'Pop-Rock').
I agree though that probably it's up to the mass media to decide when they want to introduce a new term and make it the new fashion.
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Points: 34055 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:28
maybe dubstep or gloss, disney gloss or disney/dance-hip-hop crossover fusion gloss. Modern Diney channel gloss with MTV gloss.
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Points: 2689 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:31
I have a book on the rise and fall of popular music, which starts with 18th Century garden parties and opines that the 60s/70s stuff that we all love was the downfall of popular music
 
 
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Points: 10841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:55
I have the feeling that we're close to a rupture between a Pop Music for "old people" (just like Gerinski said, artists like Robbie Williams or Celine Dion) and a Pop Music for "young people" which tends to be, most of the times, derivative - and b*****dised - forms of Funk and Rap/Hip-Hop, what we call R'n'B, Dance, "Urban music" or "Groove".

I still think that Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake and their likes just perpetuate the styles popularised by Michael Jackson and Madonna in the 80's, borrowing some elements to Electro or Rap (or other sources: I'm not sure if the evolution of Country in the 90's haven't had its influence on these young artists, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear a Banghra tune from them!), to create the sound that we have to bear everywhere, everytime for 15 years...
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 10:00
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

I have a book on the rise and fall of popular music, which starts with 18th Century garden parties and opines that the 60s/70s stuff that we all love was the downfall of popular music
 
 
40 years on it tends to make one think that "the reports of Pop's death are greatly exaggerated".
 
Whatever is popular at the time will be called Pop Music regardless of whether it bears any musicological relationship to any previous forms of Pop Music.
What?
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Points: 20883 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:44
After about  two and a half minutes, roughly.
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:13
Pop will eat itself!
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Points: 4339 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:14
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

After about  two and a half minutes, roughly.
 LOLClap

@Original q: Probably never. Let's just hope that the boundaries of what prog is don't loosen to include 8 minute pop songs. Tongue


Edited by HemispheresOfXanadu - April 23 2013 at 12:16
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:25
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Pop will eat itself!
Grebo!
What?
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:29
All pop music will stop the day that finally an asteroid delivers us the same fate as the dinosaurs.

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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Pop will eat itself!

Grebo!


Guru...
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Points: 2689 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:39
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

After about  two and a half minutes, roughly.
 
The shortness of popular songs was dictated by the duration of a 78rpm record, and then by the Jukebox companies (who wanted as many songs-per-hour being played on their machines, of course).  They lost their grip on the music industry in 1965, and Bob Dylan immediately wrote "Like A Rolling Stone"
rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 16:57

The popular culture industry came in with capitalism. I suppose when there's a new mode of production, pop music could possibly wither away...? I don't see it happening soon though, even though the whole economic system seems pretty precarious these days...


Edited by jude111 - April 23 2013 at 16:58
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Points: 65269 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 17:24
There are teenagers who like Sinatra, the Beatles, AC/DC, and who dislike Bieber, Gaga, and Nicki Minaj--  evidently good is almost always still good.
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 19:11
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

There are teenagers who like Sinatra, the Beatles, AC/DC, and who dislike Bieber, Gaga, and Nicki Minaj--  evidently good is almost always still good.


I'd rather listen to Lady Gaga and Nicki Minaj. I don't trust or like kids who say they prefer older music; they're too young to be old fogeys. Seriously, have you heard Kanye West's Monster? I mean, *wow*. Nicki Minaj comes in at the 3:40 mark and elevates this track beyond belief. Like you said, good is good, whether it's old or new. If you don't want to watch the entire video, at least watch her section beginning at 3.40:




Edited by jude111 - April 23 2013 at 19:17
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Points: 14169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 19:19
I don't think pop music will ever die. It's like classical music, which has been going on for centuries; it will surely become less popular as time goes on, like classical music, but will always be appreciated by some, probably a lot of older people.
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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:06
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

There are teenagers who like Sinatra, the Beatles, AC/DC, and who dislike Bieber, Gaga, and Nicki Minaj--  evidently good is almost always still good.


I'd rather listen to Lady Gaga and Nicki Minaj. I don't trust or like kids who say they prefer older music; they're too young to be old fogeys. Seriously, have you heard Kanye West's Monster? I mean, *wow*. Nicki Minaj comes in at the 3:40 mark and elevates this track beyond belief. Like you said, good is good, whether it's old or new. If you don't want to watch the entire video, at least watch her section beginning at 3.40:



No that song was not good. 
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Points: 1754 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:20
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

No that song was not good. 

Nah, it's not any good. It had the New York Times, Robert Christgau, the Village Voice, NME, Pitchfork, the Guardian, Slant Mag, Tiny Mix Tapes and nearly every music publication in orgasmic throes of rhapsodic delight when this song dropped.

Well, you'll never make it as a music critic. LOL

From Wikipedia: The song received general acclaim from music critics, and was listed amongst the best tracks of 2010 by publications, with NME placing it at number 53 on its list of the "150 Best Tracks of the Past 15 Years". The song was applauded for its funky, bombastic beat, with West and Minaj's contributions to the song receiving particularly positive notices. The song debuted and peaked on the Billboard Hot 100 at position 18...

Critical response

"Monster" has received general acclaim from music critics, who praised Minaj's verse and rapping style, and West handling the production. Becky Bain of Idolator stated that while the song featured five distinct artists, Minaj actually had the brightest appearance on the song. Sara D. Anderson of AOL gave the song a positive review, complimenting each artist on their contribution. Chris Ryan of MTV positively reviewed West, Jay-Z and Minaj as the stand out rappers in the song, stating "on car stereos, computers and in clubs all over, nothing got more burn than 'Monster,' his new beastly posse cut. Kanye spits about his presence being a present to us all, Jay-Z comes through with what might be his strongest verse in years, and that's where Nicki comes in, more than holding her own against the bad boys." Pitchfork's Ryan Dombal reported that Minaj gave the verse of her life, and applauded the contributions by Ross, who added a "hallucinatory tone" to the song. Another Pitchfork writer, Tom Breihan mused that the track contained the "straight-up funkiest beat" West has made in years, while commenting that Minaj was the best in show.

The Village Voice's Sean Fennessey commented that "Monster" was the track that announced Minaj's "brilliance" to most people, stating that when the posse cut "crept up the Hot 100, the song became more than track six—it became an essential part of this album’s story, delivered months early." Alex Denney of NME mused that the track "proves a riotous bit of respite" and features West "sending up his rep with a self-mocking diatribe about drowning his pain in a blizzard of blow jobs and mass adulation while Nicki Minaj sets the dials to ‘ridiculous’ with a fire-breathing, raga-inflected verse." Embling of Tiny Mix Tapes felt that with "super-sized cipher cuts" like "Monster" and "So Appalled", West balanced out some of the more darker moments of My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, and that the song contained heavy "sh*t-talking." Slant Magazine's Cole Matthew also commented that posse cuts "Monster" and "So Appalled" were amongst the hardest tracks ever produced by West.

IGN's Chad Grischow mused that the track featured great guest appearances from Jay-Z and Minaj, going as far as saying that Minaj's performance "clears up what all the hype is about for anyone still unsure". Robert Christgau of MSN Music stated that West perfectly acknowledged his status as a rapper, and noted that his persona seems to be aware that his "bling-and-sex brag is about to get blown away by padrone Jay-Z's 'all I see is these niggaz I made millionaires/Millin about' and pink-haired Nicki Minaj's 'bitch from Sri Lanka-Willy Wonka-watch the queen conquer' trifecta." David Amidon of PopMatters praised the production of the song, and stated that the track features "glass-shattering bass". Nitsuh Abebe of New York declared that Minaj gave one of the best verse of the year.

Nathan Rabin of The A.V. Club praised the guest picks on the album, musing that West trades verses with the "few superstars fit to breathe his rarified air, including Jay-Z, Rick Ross, and Nicki Minaj, who single-handedly justifies her deafening buzz with her verse on the song." Kitty Empire of The Guardian praised West's performance on the song describing it as "brilliant", but also noted that on the particular song Minaj and Jay-Z were superior to him, citing Minaj's verse as the a career best. Dan Vidal ofURB stated that West milks the potential of his guest rappers to the most impressive degree, reporting that Jay-Z’s generally relaxed performance was "with a fiery growl on" and that it "features Nicki Minaj going even more bonkers with her flow than we’re accustomed to"...

Accolades

The song was named the "Collaboration of the Year" 2010 by HipHopDX. Minaj's verse for the song was named "Verse of the Year" by the same website. Rolling Stone ranked it number 10 on its list of the Best Singles of 2010. Rap-Up declared the song the third best of 2010. MTV News declared the track the 14th best of the year, with other West singles "Power" and "Runaway" making the top 10. In October 2011, NME placed it at number 53 on its list "150 Best Tracks of the Past 15 Years", with the site's staff stating that while West had a good performance on the song, it was "star turns from Jay-Z (channeling his world-weary hip hop legend who just needed a cuddle) and Nicki Minaj (a show stealing turn from the heir apparent who was battling herself as much as the haters) that took this track over."
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