When will 'Pop music' stop?
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Topic: When will 'Pop music' stop?
Posted By: Gerinski
Subject: When will 'Pop music' stop?
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 08:57
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More precisely without title length limitations: When will the 'contemporary music for the young' stop being called 'Pop music' and some new name will be coined and a new era started? What we today refer to as 'Pop music' started (I would say) with the British Beat and the modern (60's) Folk (Joan Baez, Dylan, Donovan, Neil Diamond, John Denver etc). Some might argue that classic American Rock&Roll was already 'Pop' but in my view it was just Rock&Roll and I normally do not associate it with the term 'Pop music'. We are in the 2010's and 'modern music for the young' has passed through many seemingly disparate styles, Glam, Hard-Rock, Heavy Metal, Punk, New Wave, Synth Pop, Techno, Trance, Rap, Hip-Hop... and (in my view at least) most people still include all of these in their definition of 'Pop music' (or perhaps not?). Of course the standard highly-commercial, easy and melodic Pop is still well alive (stuff like Celine Dion, Robbie Williams etc) but for the more different and newcomer genres such as the ones mentioned above, what do you think it will take to drop the term Pop and start a new era with some new generic name for the 'music of the young'? Or will the term 'Pop music' remain forever associated with 'contemporary music for the young' regardless of how different that music will have become from its original ancestors? |
Replies:
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:07
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Pop = POPular so I think that it will always be associated with whatever the media conglomerates tell the world is POPular. ------------- 
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:20
Charleston, Big Band music, Jazz Standards or classic Rock&Roll / Rockabilly were highly popular in their time are not part of what we today refer to with the term 'Pop music' (or 'Pop-Rock'). I agree though that probably it's up to the mass media to decide when they want to introduce a new term and make it the new fashion.
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rushfan4 wrote:Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:28
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maybe dubstep or gloss, disney gloss or disney/dance-hip-hop crossover fusion gloss. Modern Diney channel gloss with MTV gloss.
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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:31
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I have a book on the rise and fall of popular music, which starts with 18th Century garden parties and opines that the 60s/70s stuff that we all love was the downfall of popular music ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:55
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I have the feeling that we're close to a rupture between a Pop Music for "old people" (just like Gerinski said, artists like Robbie Williams or Celine Dion) and a Pop Music for "young people" which tends to be, most of the times, derivative - and b*****dised - forms of Funk and Rap/Hip-Hop, what we call R'n'B, Dance, "Urban music" or "Groove". I still think that Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Justin Timberlake and their likes just perpetuate the styles popularised by Michael Jackson and Madonna in the 80's, borrowing some elements to Electro or Rap (or other sources: I'm not sure if the evolution of Country in the 90's haven't had its influence on these young artists, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear a Banghra tune from them!), to create the sound that we have to bear everywhere, everytime for 15 years... |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 10:00
40 years on it tends to make one think that "the reports of Pop's death are greatly exaggerated". Whatever is popular at the time will be called Pop Music regardless of whether it bears any musicological relationship to any previous forms of Pop Music. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:44
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After about two and a half minutes, roughly. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:13
Pop will eat itself!  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:14
 
@Original q: Probably never. Let's just hope that the boundaries of what prog is don't loosen to include 8 minute pop songs.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:25
------------- What? |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:29
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All pop music will stop the day that finally an asteroid delivers us the same fate as the dinosaurs.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:37
Guru... ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:39
The shortness of popular songs was dictated by the duration of a 78rpm record, and then by the Jukebox companies (who wanted as many songs-per-hour being played on their machines, of course). They lost their grip on the music industry in 1965, and Bob Dylan immediately wrote "Like A Rolling Stone" ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 16:57
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The popular culture industry came in with capitalism. I suppose when there's a new mode of production, pop music could possibly wither away...? I don't see it happening soon though, even though the whole economic system seems pretty precarious these days... |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 17:24
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There are teenagers who like Sinatra, the Beatles, AC/DC, and who dislike Bieber, Gaga, and Nicki Minaj-- evidently good is almost always still good. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 19:11
I'd rather listen to Lady Gaga and Nicki Minaj. I don't trust or like kids who say they prefer older music; they're too young to be old fogeys. Seriously, have you heard Kanye West's Monster? I mean, *wow*. Nicki Minaj comes in at the 3:40 mark and elevates this track beyond belief. Like you said, good is good, whether it's old or new. If you don't want to watch the entire video, at least watch her section beginning at 3.40: |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 19:19
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I don't think pop music will ever die. It's like classical music, which has been going on for centuries; it will surely become less popular as time goes on, like classical music, but will always be appreciated by some, probably a lot of older people.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:06
No that song was not good. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:20
Nah, it's not any good. It had the New York Times, Robert Christgau, the Village Voice, NME, Pitchfork, the Guardian, Slant Mag, Tiny Mix Tapes and nearly every music publication in orgasmic throes of rhapsodic delight when this song dropped. Well, you'll never make it as a music critic. From Wikipedia: The song received general acclaim from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_critics" rel="nofollow - music critics , and was listed amongst the best tracks of 2010 by publications, with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NME" rel="nofollow - NME placing it at number 53 on its list of the "150 Best Tracks of the Past 15 Years". The song was applauded for its funky, bombastic beat, with West and Minaj's contributions to the song receiving particularly positive notices. The song debuted and peaked on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Hot_100" rel="nofollow - Billboard Hot 100 at position 18... Critical response"Monster" has received general acclaim from music critics, who praised Minaj's verse and rapping style, and West handling the production. Becky Bain of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolator_%28website%29" rel="nofollow - Idolator stated that while the song featured five distinct artists, Minaj actually had the brightest appearance on the song. Sara D. Anderson of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL" rel="nofollow - AOL gave the song a positive review, complimenting each artist on their contribution. Chris Ryan of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV" rel="nofollow - MTV positively reviewed West, Jay-Z and Minaj as the stand out rappers in the song, stating "on car stereos, computers and in clubs all over, nothing got more burn than 'Monster,' his new beastly posse cut. Kanye spits about his presence being a present to us all, Jay-Z comes through with what might be his strongest verse in years, and that's where Nicki comes in, more than holding her own against the bad boys." Pitchfork's Ryan Dombal reported that Minaj gave the verse of her life, and applauded the contributions by Ross, who added a "hallucinatory tone" to the song. Another Pitchfork writer, Tom Breihan mused that the track contained the "straight-up funkiest beat" West has made in years, while commenting that Minaj was the best in show. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Village_Voice" rel="nofollow - The Village Voice 's Sean Fennessey commented that "Monster" was the track that announced Minaj's "brilliance" to most people, stating that when the posse cut "crept up the Hot 100, the song became more than track six—it became an essential part of this album’s story, delivered months early." Alex Denney of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NME" rel="nofollow - NME mused that the track "proves a riotous bit of respite" and features West "sending up his rep with a self-mocking diatribe about drowning his pain in a blizzard of blow jobs and mass adulation while Nicki Minaj sets the dials to ‘ridiculous’ with a fire-breathing, raga-inflected verse." Embling of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Mix_Tapes" rel="nofollow - Tiny Mix Tapes felt that with "super-sized cipher cuts" like "Monster" and " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_Appalled" rel="nofollow - So Appalled ", West balanced out some of the more darker moments of My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, and that the song contained heavy "sh*t-talking." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slant_Magazine" rel="nofollow - Slant Magazine 's Cole Matthew also commented that posse cuts "Monster" and "So Appalled" were amongst the hardest tracks ever produced by West. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGN" rel="nofollow - IGN 's Chad Grischow mused that the track featured great guest appearances from Jay-Z and Minaj, going as far as saying that Minaj's performance "clears up what all the hype is about for anyone still unsure". Robert Christgau of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSN_Music" rel="nofollow - MSN Music stated that West perfectly acknowledged his status as a rapper, and noted that his persona seems to be aware that his "bling-and-sex brag is about to get blown away by padrone Jay-Z's 'all I see is these niggaz I made millionaires/Millin about' and pink-haired Nicki Minaj's 'bitch from Sri Lanka-Willy Wonka-watch the queen conquer' trifecta." David Amidon of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PopMatters" rel="nofollow - PopMatters praised the production of the song, and stated that the track features "glass-shattering bass". Nitsuh Abebe of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_%28magazine%29" rel="nofollow - New York declared that Minaj gave one of the best verse of the year. Nathan Rabin of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_A.V._Club" rel="nofollow - The A.V. Club praised the guest picks on the album, musing that West trades verses with the "few superstars fit to breathe his rarified air, including Jay-Z, Rick Ross, and Nicki Minaj, who single-handedly justifies her deafening buzz with her verse on the song." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Empire" rel="nofollow - Kitty Empire of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian" rel="nofollow - The Guardian praised West's performance on the song describing it as "brilliant", but also noted that on the particular song Minaj and Jay-Z were superior to him, citing Minaj's verse as the a career best. Dan Vidal of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URB_%28magazine%29" rel="nofollow - URB stated that West milks the potential of his guest rappers to the most impressive degree, reporting that Jay-Z’s generally relaxed performance was "with a fiery growl on" and that it "features Nicki Minaj going even more bonkers with her flow than we’re accustomed to"... AccoladesThe song was named the "Collaboration of the Year" 2010 by HipHopDX. Minaj's verse for the song was named "Verse of the Year" by the same website. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Stone" rel="nofollow - Rolling Stone ranked it number 10 on its list of the Best Singles of 2010. Rap-Up declared the song the third best of 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTV_News" rel="nofollow - MTV News declared the track the 14th best of the year, with other West singles "Power" and " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_%28Kanye_West_song%29" rel="nofollow - Runaway " making the top 10. In October 2011, NME placed it at number 53 on its list "150 Best Tracks of the Past 15 Years", with the site's staff stating that while West had a good performance on the song, it was "star turns from Jay-Z (channeling his world-weary hip hop legend who just needed a cuddle) and Nicki Minaj (a show stealing turn from the heir apparent who was battling herself as much as the haters) that took this track over." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_%28Kanye_West_song%29" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_(Kanye_West_song)
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:31
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It seems well produced at least. But I don't think I'll ever purposely listen to it again. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:33
Let's face it since the dawn of man and mankind there has always been bad and good music. I don't think Pop music(in today's sense) will ever die because many people are exposed to terrible stuff like(Bieber, Gaga, Minaj) and because of the fact that they think that it's good it will continue to regenerate over and over again(that's a sad reality!). For bad Pop music to truly disappear we have to deal away with the US capitalist system and its big business/corporations because they are exactly what is regenerating and rehashing all the bad Pop music out there today.It's stuff like Bieber and Gaga that keep people calm and complacent on so many different levels. To me it's not even a form of music anymore it's just distraction after distraction. The little man has to rise up and say ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. We do that by boycotting bad products like (Bieber(god I hate that kid !!, Disney girls, sex(like Minaj and Gaga). WE(THOSE WHO CARE ABOUT REAL MUSIC!!) ALL HAVE TO RISE UP AND SAY ENOUGH OF THIS BULL !!!
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:39
wat ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:40
Hate to break it to you, but 1) capitalism originated in Europe (banking in Venice, the merchant class getting rich and challenging the aristocracy, manufacturing in England, Adam Smith and all that), 2) prog music is also a product of capitalism and is closely related to pop music (it grew out of it, and most of the great proggers were in the Billboard charts). 3) Have you seriously heard Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance"? That's a great song, no matter what you say. 4) But I kind of think you're joking a bit. That first sentence gives it away, which I only hope is intentionally (rather than unintentionally) hilarious: "Let's face it since the dawn of man and mankind there has always been bad and good music." You kind of sound like some of those muslim fundies, raging against western culture, but I think you must be kidding around
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:40
Clarify please? ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:40
You first. ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:45
I) It did but it swelled over to the US and it soon created all this bad stuff. In essence Capitalism is good but it's been twisted around so much 2) I know that but it doesn't have to be 3) Yes, I've heard that song and it sounds like all her other crap!!! You kind of sound like some of those muslim fundies, raging against western culture No, I love my homeland and some of the freedoms that we have but we have to put a limit tp how much crappy products and supposed music artists sell. I enjoy baseball and a coke  but with limitsThis is for SOLARLUNA96: In order to stop the bad music that is being produced we have to boycott it and the places that produce it are things like Disney and other big businesses This is for jude111: What is wrong with Muslims? . I'm not religious by the way I just care a sh** load for music and people around my country and world------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:49
Two words: Boy Bands. Get ready for it, and learn to accept it. Asia's rising, and they *love* boy bands (and girl bands too). Chinese pop, Korean pop... It's already making in-roads here. I know I'm in the minority when I say, We have nothing to fear.  If you don't like Lady Gaga, you'll hate Korean Pop - she actually is strongly influenced by K-pop, and not the other way around. Anyway, our kids and grandkids will love it.  PS - I didn't mean to disparage Muslims. I meant to disparage fundamentalism, of all stripes.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:55
| If you don't like pop music, it's pretty easy to avoid IMO. |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:56
^^ I guess I sound pessimistic "but I fear tomorrow we'll all be  ". I love my little nieces to death(bless their hearts) but they are getting sucked by disney to the point in which they get angry with me . The way I'm seeing things people are losing themselves on so many levels. For Padraic: I do avoid it and as much as possible ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:57
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I'm consistently surprised at how fun a lot of k-pop/j-pop is to listen to. SNSD 4 lyfe |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:58
Me too!  |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:58
 ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:01
How else do we stop it then? ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:03
Ignore it. When you do that, it's eliminated from existence. ------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:05
That is exactly what I said but in different words  ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:12
Why would we want to stop people from enjoying what they like? My mother used to love Barry Manilow (okay, this was the late 70s mind); now she loves Josh Groban. As a teenager I used to try to change my parents and get them to listen to what I thought was "good" music. (I was so insufferable. Okay, I still can be, if I don't watch myself!) But now I'm just happy she has music she can enjoy. I'll tease her, but then she'll tease me about the music I like. If people like it, and it's not hurting anyone else, who am I to try to stop it...
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:17
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:17
Couldn't agree more! When you live/eat/sleep/breathe prog 24/7, you kind of live in a `proggy' bubble where you don't get much exposure to pop music. You create your own musical world around you, that shields you from all the latest pop fads and 15 minute wonders!
I don't lsiten to the radio, so I never turn it on to hear the latest pop songs. I play CD's in my car, which means I choose what I listen to. If I'm playing music at home, I play either a CD/LP/online stream of progressive/ambient releated music. Once in a while a pop song will have real exposure that you somehow won't be able to avoid hearing endless times, but it's pretty easy to ignore the rest! 
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:20
I'd rather boycott it, but in a way they are essentially the same thing. ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:24
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:27
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^^ Damn it, Andrey you're doing it again. There are some similarities
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:28
| . |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:28
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:31
You are hassling me again. Want a hint? Name one similarity. Edited by admin - keep this civil people. ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:33
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^ The only time when discussing pr%^ks is relevant is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-lw0Xf0ds#t=1m23s" rel="nofollow - this . Negligence =/= resistance. Anyway,
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:33
Oh, I don't know about prog musicians, I was more talking about myself as a prog music listener lol!
Unfortunately, it only takes watching a few minutes of a pop video music show to see that I'm totally the wrong demographic for what is being sold to kids/teens these days as popular music, and even worse when each song ends by telling us we can buy it as a ringtone for our phones, etc. |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:41
I had deleted my post, but I guess you caught it before that. Here I had just been saying that people can listen to what they like and enjoy, and then I contradict myself and tell you to change your listening habits.
 Sorry |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:48
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No problem Jude, I didn't think bad of it!
I really don't have a problem with kids/teens listening to that sort of pop music these days (although I find it a little depressing), they could get just as much enjoyment and satisfaction out of it as I do coming across some rare difficult unloveable demanding prog album! |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 21:50
It's kind of crazy how this thread, which was originally intended for discussing the terminology for the sake of dividing pop music as we know it into eras, descended into yet another environment about opinions on the marginal and mainstream musical poles ... in much less than 12 hours. ...  ... No, it's not crazy.
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 02:41
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Not soon enough. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 09:34
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What's pop music...?
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:10
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pop = dad, so pop music = dad music ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:24
Then, what music does mama listen to? |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:27
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when the universe has reached an even temperature very close to 0K. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:57
Wouldn't it be 'kid's music'? As in, "Back in my day, I walked to school barefoot through the snow, and music was good." I call this Old Fogeyism, when the Olden Dayzers reminisce about how much better everything used to be, and how everything's gone to sh*te since then, and the music of today is not as good as the music of yesterday, and how the kids have no taste anymore... |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 11:19
Last night, I heard my mama singing a song Ooh-We, Chirpy, Chirpy, Cheep, Cheep Woke up this morning and my mama was gone Ooh-We, Chirpy, Chirpy, Cheep, Cheep Chirpy, Chirpy, Cheep, Cheep, Chirp ... they don't write songs like that any more. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 13:42
Yes, my subconscious immediately reminded me of those words as well. Funny to see I'm not the only one.
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Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 14:24
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Funny but when pop music was young, there were lots of people who really detested these new acts, like The Beatles, The Kinks, The Moodies and others. The jazzers among my older relatives made fun of me because I had such bad taste in music as they saw it. Not to speak of my grandmother, who only listened to classical music, she couldn't even stand jazz.
Let the kids listen to Bieber, and the rest of todays popular acts. When they've grown up they'll either find something more interesting, or stop listening to music altogether because it wasn't their thing. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 19:38
I think some prog fans grumble about pop because pop doesn't have much to do with rock anymore (unlike the 80s) and is mostly dance music. Even then, I don't really see how Adele is more unpalatable than, um, Olivia Newton John. When I was growing up, they used to broadcast live shows of Celine Dion....and I liked it very much at that time. 
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 19:48
| I like Adele. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 20:21
| When i think of the future of music, and any label(s) we have attached to it, like "pop music", and what that means for us right now, you can safely say "Expect the Unexpected". Society, people and the affiliations they have with the arts are constantly evolving and i think the future holds more change than we can even fathom looking ahead right now, so i think years from now, it will not be the same. Of course, there will still be young and older people, but the way they interact and even view each other and their music will be altered. That's my guess. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 20:37
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When bubbles all bust. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 01:47
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Given that prog rock was very popular in the seventies, i would also include it under the generic label of 'pop music'. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:03
I also like Justin Timberlake's new album a lot and although Kanye West is not my style, he is talented. Gotye is great too.
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Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:04
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:55
------------- What? |
Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:03
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Pop will never stop because pop is simply short for popular so whatever is popular will always be pop. Forever. ------------- http://larree.ws" rel="nofollow - The Larree (dot) Website |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:05
Indeed. Caruso sold a million a century ago, and many more did the same since then. ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:11
Someone else wrote something similar: "Since the dawn of mankind, before time and recorded history, when man crawled out of the slime and began slithering away in the mud towards green pastures, man's been listening to Top 40 music on the radio," or something like that. No, pop music - indeed, pop culture - has a definite history, an origin in history and aligned with technological developments, social relations and economic development. It's not eternal. It's not even that old; it's relatively new in human history.
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:21
Opera is not popular culture, or should I say, it's not mass culture. High culture, defined as the culture of the elite, the aristocracy, the intelligentsia, historically stood in opposition to the "low" class, working class, mass-produced popular culture industry which arose in the last few centuries. We should be clear that when we're talking about pop music, we're not talking about symphonies or operas. Indeed, the term "culture" itself was historically seen to be something that belonged purely to the feudal classes - the masses themselves were seen to be *lacking* any culture. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:36
I'd say that was a mass-market pop(ular) record and not a high-brow culture recording. If you need to be pedantic about it, that was a crossover just as Katherine Jenkins or Vanessa Mae are crossover... and that's Pop Music.
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:43
I was trying to say this, but getting tangled up in my words
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 13:20
That can be alright from an academical point of view but it's distorting the meaning of the OP just for the sake of contradicting. When we informally talk about 'Pop music' we kind of know what we are talking about, at least more or less, even if it's surely not universally defined and not everybody will think exactly the same. But I don't think ELP's Toccata or Yes Close To The Edge will come to mind to most people when they think about the term 'Pop music'
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 16:53
I think anyone's endorsement of this statement though sincere, must represent the apex of Pedantry Archives. Perhaps it's our fault for lazy association of ideas etc but it serves no purpose to equate pop music
with anything that sold in large quantities that ain't academic music.
The consumers who made Prog mainstream and popular in the 70's were not
also buying Donny Osmond, David Cassidy and Bay City Rollers records
were they?Cue a montage of some erudite Progster's album collection at around this time which encompasses Alvin Stardust (the Godfather of nested septuplets) and Gentle Giant  ------------- 
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:07
Are you sure? Top Billboard hits in 1975 include songs by Jethro Tull, 10cc, Paul McCartney & Wings, Queen, Electric Light Orchestra, Styx, Earth, Wind & Fire, Elton John, David Bowie, Al Green, Rod Stewart, Ringo Starr, the Eagles, the Bee Gees, Stevie Wonder, Bachman–Turner Overdrive, Average White Band, Linda Ronstadt, KC and the Sunshine Band, Doobie Brothers. I think I've bought records by nearly everyone above at some point in my life (used most often, or at least checked them out at the library ). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1975" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_singles_of_1975
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:16
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RE my post : I remember once when I went to see L'Image (Tony Levin, Steve Gadd, Warren Bernhardt, Mike Mainieri and David Spinoza) in the famous jazz venue New Morning in Paris, there was a guy (around 55 y.o.) who used the tag "pop" to qualify all pop/rock Tony Levin was involved in previously (that included his collaborations with Peter Gabriel and King Crimson). I suspect progsters to be allergic to the word "pop", I don't know why because prog rock is part of pop culture. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Even if it can draw influences from classical music, one has to admit that it remains pop/rock music. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:22
When the thin line between what is a pop tune and what is a prog tune can send people into pyramids of pointless quotes arguing back and forth with no immediate sign of ending then it is safe to assume that that same thin line seperates progressive rock from pop music regardless of any academic musicological classification. Popular does not have to sell in large quantities or to all demographics, it just has to be more popular than the previous fad and the next available fad. ------------- What? |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:29
Neil Diamond's OST for 'Jonahtan Livingston Seagull' is full of orchestrations and certainly more "symphonic" than anything ELP or Yes released. So the argument of classical music influences is not valid. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 20:35
Maybe they wouldn't like to acknowledge that pop also draws from classical music (e.g. ABBA) at times and a lot from jazz. The difference is mainly in terms of form but rock music of the early 70s was shaped by the mid-late 60s psychedelic rock wave so they were more or less part of a common culture rather than originating from completely different sources. This trend continued into the 80s and 90s and prog metal became the genre of choice for lots of new bands because metal was ruling the waves either in its full blooded form or in the form of hair/glam metal. Maybe with retro becoming more and more popular, there is a disconnect now between popular culture and prog.
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 21:02
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 22:14
| Yeah, I meant that retro prog is becoming a popular niche within prog. Even Wilson and Akerfeldt want to go back to the 70s. And so prog is a bit out of touch with pop, for better or worse. |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 02:32
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Is 'retro prog' an oxymoron? Should it be called Regressive Rock, or Reg for short? ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 02:44
| ^ Chuck (cstack3) has once brought up that one Wetton quote regarding progress and regress about a month ago. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 03:20
I'm not really sure if anyone here is strenuously pushing this argument but Keith Emerson's adaptation of the 4th Movement of Ginastera's 1st Piano Concerto is what? an example of the sort of bowdlerization of the classics in the same vein as Nutrocker? (which ELP covered as a tongue in cheek encore of course) Is Toccata 'pop' because it was released when classical adaptations were a fad? Apres le fad, what is Toccata if judged on its own terms? I enjoy Neil Diamond's music for Jonathan Livingston Seagull certainly, but you are deluded as far as symphonic orchestral writing is concerned - these are pieces that obey to the letter pop song forms and structures albeit augmented by orchestral forces e.g. Scott Walker's songs will remain brilliant pop writing irrespective of the orchestral arrangements. I really don't believe you are gauche enough to believe that musical composition that obeys the strictures of symphonic form is invalidated by being realised on Hammond Organ and Moog synth. Practically the whole of Brain Salad Surgery was constructed in this fashion and the musical ideas and themes are treated and developed in the same manner as they might be approached by Sibelius, Bartok, Stravinsky, Copeland et al. (Electricity appears to have much to answer for) -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 05:18
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Shirley you mean practically the whole of Karn Evil 9, and I'd probably dispute that if I could muster the energy. ------------- What? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 05:41
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There was me thinking I typed that verbatim but hey ho, perish the thought, you must not spread your brilliance too thinly
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 05:43
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piss off Iain. X2 ------------- What? |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 11:02
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When will the pop stop??? God. I hope right now. Genesis used up all my love for a pop sound in music. I'm spent. Invisible touch is the most I can take. :) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 05:00
Sountrackery is not pop...
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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 05:17
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Soundtrackery is not pop?
In the 50s the soundtrack album of "South Pacific" was Number One for 115 weeks (including the whole of 1959) In the 60s the soundtrack album of "The Sound Of Music" was Number One for a total of 70 weeks. (twice in '65, 3 times in '66, 5 times in '67, and twice in '68) In the US, the best selling album of the 60s was the soundtrack album of "West Side Story" In the 70s, the soundtrack album of "Saturday Night Fever" was Number One for 18 consecutive weeks and spawned lots of hit singles. etc etc etc ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 05:22
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Pop is a song form that goes back to early jazz and before. In a way, that post early on in this thread saying that the 60's / 70's killed it off is true: the main thing about prog is its dispensing of that song form, and yet still retaining its identity as "rock", which was a type of pop. Sure, there was pop after that, but the psychedelic era pushed the form as far as it could go (the 80's squeezed the last juice from it, by adding synths to the mix). It is all retro from there on, and consequently gets replaced. For example, disco is often not pop. It's an even simpler form. Hip hop / edm are even further in that direction. Music keeps getting simpler. I'm not sure you actually want to hurry the death of pop. Then again, the post about retro being popular now is kind of true. It guess it has to be, if you get me.
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 09:24
"Music keeps getting simpler." I don't buy it. Can you rap like Jay-Z? Can you evoke the same moods using the same tonal palette and pastiche style as Burial? Can anyone be another Brian Eno, or Thom Yorke? Rapping has its own skills set, and not many are great at it. It's like saying that literature devolved and became simplistic when the novel replaced epic poetry, or that no one writes like Shelley anymore. Ways of reading change; in a similar way, ways of making music, and listening to music, change as well. There's been a lot of talk the last decade or more about how the DJ and the music producer has replaced the instrumentalist as the locus of creativity. These are innovations in music, related to technological advancement. I find all this rather interesting... If you're a music lover, then we live in exciting times.
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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: May 05 2013 at 22:43
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Skill doesn't necessarily have to do with musical complexity (plus Jay-Z isn't even technically good). Coming up with lyrics is where most of the skill in rap is anyway. IMO Burial evokes the mood of doing a bunch of cough syrup, so I would probably never gravitate to that. Novels are more complex in most ways than epic poetry. Length is not equal to complexity. The DJ is a technological innovation, not a musical one. There were ways to sample and tamper with pre-existing music before then. It just wasn't as easy. Hip hop is a style partly born from that ease. The instrumentalist being replaced is terrible, imo, because music "producers" don't usually bother to learn theory (and consequently understand how composition has worked throughout history).
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 06 2013 at 09:29
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^^^ Re music getting simpler, it depends on what you call pop music. Muse's 2nd Law album has already 1.6 million copies worldwide. Everything Everything's sophomore effort has done well on British charts. Irrespective of how aesthetically elegant they may or may not be, they are not particularly simplified (esp not Everything Everything). |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: May 06 2013 at 18:07
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Pop music itself can only compress to a certain degree without losing its identity. I'm saying it largely gave way to a new, different, but simpler thing. Each new movement is simpler than the last: Classical --> Jazz --> Rock/Pop --> Dance/Hip Hop --> One-Note Throb (2025) --> *raw sinewave* But no, I don't think it will go any further in this direction. The most popular music will remain a mix of pop and dance music, at least until the revolution.
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