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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: August 13 2012 at 00:40
King of Loss wrote:
From what schools tell us, both wars could have been avoided entirely.
More so the first one though. The first one was the biggest stupid blunder of all times. The second one was just its natural consequence. Though it could have also been avoided (much more difficult though).
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 6673
Posted: August 13 2012 at 00:51
Being an amateur military historian , I am fascinated and disturbed by both events and YES, WW2 was a direct consequence of Versailles and the blindness of Clemenceau, no historian will doubt that. On the other hand, WW1 was the direct result of the French Revolution and the colliding concepts of monarchy and republicanism. Lest we forget that neither were particularly democratic as Britain was an Empire that tolerated little dissent.
The saddest reality is that nearly 80 million Europeans died in WW2 for a just cause, the rooting out of the most evil of regimes. In the 90s, the tremors were still being felt (Srebenica, Kosovo and the collapse of the USSR) .
Today, economic uncertainty looms once again, the root cause of the unrest in 1914. Let us pray........
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Online
Points: 16544
Posted: August 13 2012 at 07:34
The T wrote:
King of Loss wrote:
From what schools tell us, both wars could have been avoided entirely.
More so the first one though. The first one was the biggest stupid blunder of all times. The second one was just its natural consequence. Though it could have also been avoided (much more difficult though).
Let's hope the same mistakes are not repeated again! I think experienced and common sense leaders are needed, but unfortunately history shows that these so called wise leaders are not to be seen at crucial moments.
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Online
Points: 16544
Posted: August 13 2012 at 07:49
tszirmay wrote:
Being an amateur military historian , I am fascinated and disturbed by both events and YES, WW2 was a direct consequence of Versailles and the blindness of Clemenceau, no historian will doubt that. On the other hand, WW1 was the direct result of the French Revolution and the colliding concepts of monarchy and republicanism. Lest we forget that neither were particularly democratic as Britain was an Empire that tolerated little dissent.
The saddest reality is that nearly 80 million Europeans died in WW2 for a just cause, the rooting out of the most evil of regimes. In the 90s, the tremors were still being felt (Srebenica, Kosovo and the collapse of the USSR) .
Today, economic uncertainty looms once again, the root cause of the unrest in 1914. Let us pray........
After 4 years from 2008, most of us are still waiting for the "recovery"
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
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Points: 15784
Posted: August 13 2012 at 09:08
Personally I prefer WWI because I find it to be rather unexamined and criticized despite being what I think to be the more significant of the two in terms of its influence later in the century.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
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Points: 8581
Posted: August 13 2012 at 09:33
^I tend to agree. I think the primary reason it goes unexamined is it was a very "unsexy" war. WWII had everything going for it as far as a "freshness" factor. Full use of moving pictures, better long distance communication, full mechanization, high profile despots and more. WWI, while certainly more interesting in its roots, was basically a dawn to dusk muddy slug-fest across far fewer fronts. And really, Versailles being the bung trap of a treaty that it was, WWI can be argued as never really ending. Seriously, the ramifications of the event are still being played out today. One could argue that the only real reason there was a break at all between the two was the flu.
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Joined: October 21 2005
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Posted: August 26 2012 at 21:35
WW1 is quite interesting: it started as a typical conflict of kings and royal houses, just like had happened for more than 800 years in Europe (and parts of Asia too) and finished as a total war, that saw the end of some big empires: Otoman, Austria-Hungary, Czarist Russia.
After WW1, the USA became a major power, and we saw the rise of the Soviet Union. Also the events in Germany, Italy, Portugal, Turkey, Spain, etc, were indelible and marked the decades to come.
Much of the world we live today was shaped in the WW1.
Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
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Points: 933
Posted: August 29 2012 at 11:43
I am fascinated by WW1. 19th century strategies were often disastrously employed in a 20th century war. eg cavalry charges up hill towards machine gun emplacements had no hope of success, but this tactic was often employed. Ordinary soldiers were regarded as nothing more than cannon fodder as they stepped 'over the top' trudging towards unassailable machine gun emplacements. Massive casualties were deemed acceptable for the smallest military gains. Never before or since has the life of an ordinary soldier been so utterly disregarded. Never before or since has military incompetence been played out on so vast a scale.
Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
Posted: August 29 2012 at 12:05
I've had an interest in both since middle school. I've always found reality more interesting than fiction. I am particularly fascinated by the aircraft of WW2. Used to build models when I was a kid. Of course we wouldn't have had 2 without 1.
I found one photo that survived the flood:
I had a Stuka model that was big scale, something like a 2 foot wingspan. Our white cat Snowball knocked off the dresser and broke it. Also had a really cool B-17. Any surviving models were destroyed in a house fire in 1984 when I was at college.
The Peachtree Dekalb Airport in Chamblee sometimes gets a visit from one of the surviving B-17s and they have rides but the ticket price is a bit too high for me.
Edited by Slartibartfast - August 29 2012 at 12:32
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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King of Loss wrote:
Also had a really cool B-17. Any surviving models were destroyed in a house fire in 1984 when I was at college.
