The most intriguing conspiracy theory

Dean wrote: GaryB wrote: I know that many people do not believe in conspiracies. Wasn't the Watergate cover-up a conspiracy? What do the doubters say about that? Watergate was not a conspiracy theory - it was a conspiracy that was uncovered.

Satanic murder cult hoax!  In the 80's, supposedly Devil worshippers were posed at daycare centers in San Antonio. Young people performed ritualistic killings across the U.S. and it was linked to the influence that "Heavy Metal" music had on their minds. I find all of that to be farce when Senator Gore's wife (who threw a hissy), put "Heavy Metal" artists on the stand..while sitting and rubbing shoulders with the record executives who forced bands to use disturbing album covers...for example the famous Norman Rockwell painting with a mother serving dinner to the family..except in this case she would be serving a dead baby.

Wonder of wonders, I agree with Dean.

^ That's fair enough - I'm not interested in getting into discussions that don't exist, just that when people say conspiracies don't exist they are implying "conspiracy theories" - not proven conspiracies or cases such as the Barclay's bank  traders conspiring to rig interest rates which (based on current findings) looks like amassing enough evidence for criminal prosecutions. When you say "...that many people do not believe in conspiracies. Wasn't the Watergate cover-up a conspiracy? What do the doubters say about that?" in a thread about conspiracy theories the only assumption I can draw is you are referring to real and imagined conspiracies - I merely pointed out that Watergate does not fall under imagined conspiracies.

Edited by Dean - July 25 2012 at 14:17

Hey Dean

GaryB wrote: The JFK assassination is one of the most popular conspiracy theories because there were so many unanswered questions about the actual shooting. Could one shooter get off the number of shots fired in just a few seconds using a single-shot bolt action rifle and hit a moving target?   -Yes; especially a Marine trained in sharpshooting and rapid bolt-action as Oswald was. Is the "single bullet theory" (magic bullet) believable?   - It's well within the realm of possibility, but frankly it's not as important as we tend to think; the fact that one bullet may have passed through both men tells us little about how many shooters there were.  Oswald could easily have gotten off four shots and the Warren Report simply guessed wrong. By the way, that bullet was not dug out of Connally's thigh by a doctor. It was found on the gurney, laying next to Connally after he arrived at the hospital.   - This was odd, but again tells us little about what actually happened. Oswald - or just someone shooting from the Book Depository - could have, and likely did, get off more than three shots. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an "Oswald Did It" person, but the handling of JFK's body was so poor and the autopsy so limited, the massive parietal and frontal damage seen in Bethesda and the fact that it conflicts with the very simple large hole in the rear skull seen in Dallas may only indicate the head was damaged in transit (a good reason for the Feds to cover-up a botched autopsy)

Edited by Atavachron - July 25 2012 at 18:38

Of course he was questioned but no recordings were made and the few notes taken are unaccounted for.   Oswald was absolutely trained in sharpshooting as all Marines are, unlike Army (he even trained on moving targets shaped like men in cars).   We know from his wife that he would practice rapidly working the bolt, and though not a great shot by Marine standards, was a good one.

As for ballistics, it is a more complex subject than it appears and a lot of researches assume they understand how bullets behave and what kinds of wounds they create based on previous misinformation.   If the question is could a bullet pass through two people causing multiple wounds, the answer is without a doubt yes.  If the question is;  is that what actually happened, we don't know, but again it tells us little about how many shooters or who they were because the Warren Commissions findings were a theory as stated up front in the Report, and they simply could've been wrong about Oswald only being capable of firing three shots.  

If you don't buy the Report, than how can you buy the 'Only three shots were possible' scenario?





Edited by Atavachron - July 25 2012 at 23:21

Conversely, there is also evidence that no one was shooting from the Depository; the police who checked the whole building just after the shooting reported no smell of gunpowder in the building including sixth floor, which presumably would've been noticeable on a warm Texas afternoon.   Several of the ear-witnesses who's Warren report testimony says they heard gunshots from the sixth floor have now stated their testimonies were altered and misrepresented.  Many of them were black and didn't want to make a fuss about it when the Report came out in '64.   Only one person standing directly across the street said they actually saw a man (vaguely fitting Oswald's description) with a rifle in the sixth floor window, and the Commission used it as one of their cornerstones.  An excellent example of highlighting evidence that supports a predetermination, rather than weighing all of the empirical evidence to come to a conclusion.

Here's the really difficult aspect of the case: Oswald had to have been involved or known something was afoot, because he fled the Depository, went home, got a loaded handgun and left again.  This is suspicious and not the behavior of an innocent man.  It would also appear quite likely that he was both a true Communist and an informant for the FBI/ATF; highly intelligent with a mastery of Russian almost unheard of for a young American; broke, depressed, confused and gullible; and had married a woman whose uncle was a Russian Intelligence officer.

Something very bizarre was going on with this young man and I suspect the truth behind the case lies somewhere between the theories--  Oswald may've been a knowing player in the crime and at the same time monitoring the plotters for the Feds.

Atavachron wrote: Of course he was questioned but no recordings were made and the few notes taken are unaccounted for.   Oswald was absolutely trained in sharpshooting as all Marines are, unlike Army (he even trained on moving targets shaped like men in cars).   We know from his wife that he would practice rapidly working the bolt, and though not a great shot by Marine standards, was a good one. As for ballistics, it is a more complex subject than it appears and a lot of researches assume they understand how bullets behave and what kinds of wounds they create based on previous misinformation.   If the question is could a bullet pass through two people causing multiple wounds, the answer is without a doubt yes.  If the question is;  is that what actually happened, we don't know, but again it tells us little about how many shooters or who they were because the Warren Commissions findings were a theory as stated up front in the Report, and they simply could've been wrong about Oswald only being capable of firing three shots.   If you don't buy the Report, than how can you buy the 'Only three shots were possible' scenario?

GaryB wrote: Dean wrote: ^ aren't we all - you just have to temper things that can and do happen with things that are highly improbable.   I think it would be very foolish to categorically state that aliens do not exist - mathematically the odds are in favour of life existing somewhere in the Universe as well as on Earth, however I find it highly unlikely that a race of beings with the advance intelligence and technology necessary to traverse astronomical distances in space would come here just to mutilate cattle and make a few interesting geometric patterns in crop fields. I was raised in a Christian family. When I was a young boy, if had asked my parents about aliens (or spacemen as we called them) I would have been given a look that could only be interpreted as saying "We want a DNA test". My pet theory is that there is a strong chance that aliens exist and they have been monitoring us for years. They just feel that we are too stupid to bother with. Don't give up hope though because maybe in another thousand years they may consider us worthy of contact. Maybe.

Ah....no. That is so highly improbable it tends towards being practically impossible.

Edited by Dean - July 26 2012 at 01:40