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Topic ClosedForgiveness
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Poll Question: Who is the hardest to forgive?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [8.70%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [13.04%]
3 [13.04%]
15 [65.22%]
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Smurph View Drop Down
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 13:02
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Feeling awful about doing something so that you feel an unrelenting urge to do these things does not seem to be self-pity. The thought is not "I feel so sorry for myself." The thought is "The person that I have wronged should want to destroy me. I shall do it for them to ease the burden of guilt." I have never thought of that as self-pity.

I've never felt like that. If I've wronged someone then I want to make them feel better, not myself feel worse.
 
 
Guilt and shame are powerful creatures.
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 13:04
Also Dean you talk about onto others...what about wronging yourself?
Or am I, yet again, not normal and do people not treat themselves like sh*t as much as I do? Cool
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Smurph View Drop Down
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 13:08
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Also Dean you talk about onto others...what about wronging yourself?
Or am I, yet again, not normal and do people not treat themselves like sh*t as much as I do? Cool


 
 
I am completely not normal and you're in the same boat as me on this subject.
 
You should hang out in the shred. We are well versed in these ways.
http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/



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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 13:09
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Feeling awful about doing something so that you feel an unrelenting urge to do these things does not seem to be self-pity. The thought is not "I feel so sorry for myself." The thought is "The person that I have wronged should want to destroy me. I shall do it for them to ease the burden of guilt." I have never thought of that as self-pity.

I've never felt like that. If I've wronged someone then I want to make them feel better, not myself feel worse.
 
 
Guilt and shame are powerful creatures.
I imagine they must be for so many people to have voted "yourself".
 
However, based on these results since "we" can forgive family, friends and strangers, then they in turn would have no problem in forgiving "you", ergo, forgiveness is there for the taking once "you" can accept the guilt and shame as being part of the remorse.
What?
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wilmon91 View Drop Down
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Points: 698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 17:01
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

forgiveness is something you grant to others.
I think I agree with that.. What does it mean not to be able to forgive yourself? Does it mean that you did something you would never do again, and you can't forgive your "old" self which is now a part of history? Or is it something negative that is still a part of you, and by accepting that you can't change for the better, you think you are a bad person, and essentially the ideal "you" is not in control over yourself, therefore the lack of forgiveness.
 
When you think that you can't forgive yourself, it's just a way to judge yourself over something which you feel deep regret about. It's like thinking "what's done is done", and the harsh way of thinking is that "there is no excuse", therefore it can't even be forgiven.
 
But regret and denial of self-forgiveness is not the same thing. I think that in order not to forgive yourself you have to abandon yourself. It's like the bond between the person who makes all the choices and acts, and the person with ideals who judges the action will be broken, and then you are essentially dead, maybe?
 
Self-forgiveness , does it really exist? I doubt it.
 
And the other alternatives, it all comes down to events, actions and intents, it's not so much determined by who it is. 
 
Another interesting question is what requirements do you think need to be fulfilled in order for you to forgive someone.


Edited by wilmon91 - July 05 2012 at 17:04
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2012 at 17:04
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Also Dean you talk about onto others...what about wronging yourself?
Or am I, yet again, not normal and do people not treat themselves like sh*t as much as I do? Cool


 
 
I am completely not normal and you're in the same boat as me on this subject.
 
You should hang out in the shred. We are well versed in these ways.


You are new here?
I am a long time vet of the shred. It ballooned my post count from 9k to 30k
I am retired

This may sound even worse...I honestly do NOT try to guilt and shame myself. I sincerely have periods of self loathing, and I really do get struggle with forgiving myself.
I agree with Dean, it's better to make others happy than yourself bad. In fact I am probably too forgiving of others, and I do it because it's the right thing to do. I never try to make myself bad/wracked with guilt or shame. I find it slows me even more...I do better when I feel good.

But what can I say? I have a hard time forgiving myself, especially when I do things to myself...
Or how much of a bum I've been these past few years...living off my parents. I hate myself for it, and the negativity becomes self cyclical, ironically. Not till recently I've gotten over and started to better myself.



Edited by JJLehto - July 05 2012 at 17:08
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