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Topic ClosedThe 80s..the worst era for prog.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2012 at 13:49
And bignoze, perhaps you'd appreciate the progginess of this from 1982:



And the 1800s were the best for progressive rocks.  The Till Family Rock Band (aka Harmonicum) for PA http://www.michaeltill.com/


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2012 at 14:01
Pretty interesting. Far out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2012 at 00:11
As a gigging musician throughout the '80s in the US, I can testify that prog was, in fact, very much alive, although going through a metamorphosis. 

The mellotron-drenched symphonic opuses like TFTO were, of course, dispatched.  ELP?  Gone.  Only the Moody Blues seemed to keep chugging along with the same unchanged formula (and they did it quite well).  

However, many prog musicians like Bob Fripp adapted to the changing tastes, embraced the times and prospered.  Bob's "League of Gentlemen" was an amazing foray that blended his fuzz-tone, no-holds-barred lead playing over new wave dance music!  And of course, the "Discipline" era of KC was born in the '80s, generating some of their finest work. 

Jazz-rock fusion also did very well throughout the '80s.  In Chicago, we had many audacious homegrown acts such as Apprentice, who channeled 1970's Brand X and took it to another level.  Al Dimeola had many of his biggest releases in the 80's, and like Fripp, he embraced the emerging Roland guitar synth technology and used it ably. 

Other fusion artists active in the '80s included Steve Morse, both with the Dixie Dregs and his jaw-dropping guitar-driven solo work; John McLaughlin, with his One Truth Band and other projects;  Alan Holdsworth, recording with both conventional guitar and SynthAxe; Pat Metheny and his fine band; Weather Report, who had SIX releases in the 80's, and so forth. 

It was a chaotic, creative era, with punk rock, pop, early electronica and other forms all colliding into one another!  I have very fond memories of those times, and saw some of the finest prog concerts of my lifetime.   By no means were the 80's the worst era for prog.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 04:18
Many may disagree, but I personally think that "Momentary Lapse of Reason" by Pink Floyd was and still is an excellent album.Sax man
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 05:23
I think the main difference, and part of the dilemma here, is that the people who found themselves drawn towards the prog rock of the 70s in the 70s didn't necessarily think of it as belonging to any 'genres' or 'styles' per se, and therefore also were much more prone to explore beyond what they'd normally listen to on the radio. It genuinely was a revolution, and it was just as much about taking chances from the audience's viewpoint as it was from the creator of the sounds. I feel this thing has diminished with the years - and now the general 'prog rock' fan is merely out to confirm and cement his/her own tastes, which there is nothing wrong with, but it then irks me to the point of madness, when people start saying that prog was all but dead in the 80s. Why? Because they only want stuff that sounds like a replica of the big swingers of the preceding decade, and that was not the deal. Prog is a genre in itself, so much I can understand - and much of it I truly enjoy, but if we're unable or indeed unwilling to lend our ears to something progressive - be that from the 80s or current for that matter - then we've suddenly turned into the very same that the 'prog rockers' were rebelling against, when they once created Close to the Edge, Foxtrot, Birds of Fire and the likes.
I know what I like in my wardrobe and all - that's all very cool and dandy, but don't come running to the peeps out there who actually take chances with there music - yelling That's not prog rock dude, don't you know you're supposed to have mellotron in there somewhere!?!?!?! Because that is again not what it's all about -at least not from where I'm sitting, but yeah what do I know? I'm just a dumb Dane that just turned 30, and I wasn't around back when poppa looked like a girl and smoked weed....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 06:37
^ Perceptive post certainly. I think the important thing to remember is that the audiences in the 70's were receptive to musicians taking chances, being adventurous and exploratory (notwithstanding the talent required to replicate a studio recording in the live realm, that is NOT what they wanted to hear - they wanted a unique live experience distinct from the albums. Greg Lake expressed this idea quite well in an ELP documentary where he stated 'the studio albums are like a cheque, which is only a promise to pay, when you see us live, we deliver on that promise to pay'
How many times have we heard a fan regale us with the following dubious  testimony to quality: I went to see #### last night and they were completely awesome, it sounded exactly like the record. Why not Rent out a house, invite your mates round and play the album at maximum volume and cover yourselves in beer and snot?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 06:49
Hell, that's the whole thing isn't it? We are so used to hearing live relegations of tracks off of albums sounding pitch perfect and interjected with he right kind of tape - at the right time, that the room for musical gymnastics and fuel imagination is next to non-existent. A lot of the power and pomp that goes into recording sessions stem from being on the road with fellow minded musicians, but if the focus remains on metronomic and well-rehearsed versions of oneself doing impersonations of oneself - what does that leave for imaginative sprees and freedom within the music to advance - to progress? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 07:12
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I think the main difference, and part of the dilemma here, is that the people who found themselves drawn towards the prog rock of the 70s in the 70s didn't necessarily think of it as belonging to any 'genres' or 'styles' per se, and therefore also were much more prone to explore beyond what they'd normally listen to on the radio. It genuinely was a revolution, and it was just as much about taking chances from the audience's viewpoint as it was from the creator of the sounds. I feel this thing has diminished with the years - and now the general 'prog rock' fan is merely out to confirm and cement his/her own tastes, which there is nothing wrong with, but it then irks me to the point of madness, when people start saying that prog was all but dead in the 80s. Why? Because they only want stuff that sounds like a replica of the big swingers of the preceding decade, and that was not the deal. Prog is a genre in itself, so much I can understand - and much of it I truly enjoy, but if we're unable or indeed unwilling to lend our ears to something progressive - be that from the 80s or current for that matter - then we've suddenly turned into the very same that the 'prog rockers' were rebelling against, when they once created Close to the Edge, Foxtrot, Birds of Fire and the likes.
I know what I like in my wardrobe and all - that's all very cool and dandy, but don't come running to the peeps out there who actually take chances with there music - yelling That's not prog rock dude, don't you know you're supposed to have mellotron in there somewhere!?!?!?! Because that is again not what it's all about -at least not from where I'm sitting, but yeah what do I know? I'm just a dumb Dane that just turned 30, and I wasn't around back when poppa looked like a girl and smoked weed....


Great post.  Clap  I agree with most of this.  I recall that two years back, NearFest had to be called off because there were no classic prog rock acts or such others that could draw a crowd.  And somebody on the forum defended this, saying that as consumers they were entitled to pay only for what they wanted.   Well, guess what, it's Nearfest Apocalypse in 2012.   Where there would have at least been some prog festival, there will be nothing now for the consumers to buy. 

This kind of attitude threatens not only prog but music in general.  Some people refused to go to a Shakti concert earlier this year just because Shankar Mahadevan now contributes vocals and L Shankar is no longer a part of the group.  That he has been replaced by the genius U Shrinivas doesn't seem to count for much.  Thankfully, not enough people shared that kind of thinking and the concert was a rip roaring success which I was glad to attend.   But I wonder what does all this elitism and thinly veiled indifference to mass tastes count for if people are so close minded and rigid about music.  I can't force people to free their minds and it's not my business anyway but I just want to say that you can't have your cake and eat it too.  The listeners should participate in the experience and treat it as a journey of discovery, not some made to order entertainment programme, if they really do want to get the most out of music appreciation.


Edited by rogerthat - June 16 2012 at 07:13
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 09:50
< ="" ="text/" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> The thing is, I think, that what was really original in the 70's was well renown and what was really original in the 80's wasn't. It's all about the change in musical industry, the 70's had a musical scene wich was managed by artists wich wanted originality to come through and, in the 80's, business men took over it making the package more important than what there was inside. There are still incredible acts in the 80's and some were popular but I think the best from the 80's was what did not work in this era and that was purely original.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 11:12
Originally posted by The_Jester The_Jester wrote:

The thing is, I think, that what was really original in the 70's was well renown and what was really original in the 80's wasn't. It's all about the change in musical industry, the 70's had a musical scene wich was managed by artists wich wanted originality to come through and, in the 80's, business men took over it making the package more important than what there was inside. There are still incredible acts in the 80's and some were popular but I think the best from the 80's was what did not work in this era and that was purely original.


Gentle Giant and King Crimson were not wildly successful at that time either,  and certainly less so than some prog rock bands who were arguably not as adventurous as them, leave alone bands like Eagles, Aerosmith, Kiss, Foreigner, etc.   We have to thank the internet that brings music fans together and spreads the word about bands that might otherwise have been forgotten.  If business men did not put their money where the mouth is, there would be no music INDUSTRY, just musicians making their stuff and struggling to reach larger audiences.

As for the 80s, Master of Puppets eventually went six times platinum and was certified gold at the time of its release without any radio airplay.  I don't know if you like metal or not because that is likely to colour your views about this information (I guess it's called extreme for a reason, lol).   But in my view, MOP is a lot more daring than many, many mainstream rock albums from the 60s, 70s or even the 80s, forcing listeners to confront a harsh, dissonant wall of riffage while also utilizing extended sections surprisingly well for a metal album.  Metallica went on to become one of the largest rock bands of the 90s, so some of the most commercially successful music of the 80s was also pathbreaking, barrier-shattering stuff.  It is unfortunate if people choose to remember the 80s only for Michael Jackson or Madonna or A Ha because it is not the complete story.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 16:49
Ya know I was half ready to jump up and agree with the original post and say even though there were plenty of good albums in the 80s, that it was infact the worst... but then I got curious, looked through my collection of music.
Conclusion - Roughly 1/3rd of all my prog is from the 80s.... Shocked

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2012 at 19:08
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

As a gigging musician throughout the '80s in the US, I can testify that prog was, in fact, very much alive, although going through a metamorphosis. 

The mellotron-drenched symphonic opuses like TFTO were, of course, dispatched.  ELP?  Gone.  Only the Moody Blues seemed to keep chugging along with the same unchanged formula (and they did it quite well).  

However, many prog musicians like Bob Fripp adapted to the changing tastes, embraced the times and prospered.  Bob's "League of Gentlemen" was an amazing foray that blended his fuzz-tone, no-holds-barred lead playing over new wave dance music!  And of course, the "Discipline" era of KC was born in the '80s, generating some of their finest work. 

Jazz-rock fusion also did very well throughout the '80s.  In Chicago, we had many audacious homegrown acts such as Apprentice, who channeled 1970's Brand X and took it to another level.  Al Dimeola had many of his biggest releases in the 80's, and like Fripp, he embraced the emerging Roland guitar synth technology and used it ably. 

Other fusion artists active in the '80s included Steve Morse, both with the Dixie Dregs and his jaw-dropping guitar-driven solo work; John McLaughlin, with his One Truth Band and other projects;  Alan Holdsworth, recording with both conventional guitar and SynthAxe; Pat Metheny and his fine band; Weather Report, who had SIX releases in the 80's, and so forth. 

It was a chaotic, creative era, with punk rock, pop, early electronica and other forms all colliding into one another!  I have very fond memories of those times, and saw some of the finest prog concerts of my lifetime.   By no means were the 80's the worst era for prog.  

See, I can't look back harshly on the '80's because I got into prog in the late '70's for many of the reasons noted above.  Saw some big names in decline, disintegrate, and/or go commercial.  But there was still plenty of good things going on.  The Dregs unfortunately did come to a screeching halt in '82,which was a big bummer at the time even though Steve carried on solo.


Edited by Slartibartfast - June 16 2012 at 19:09
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2012 at 21:31
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

 
See, I can't look back harshly on the '80's because I got into prog in the late '70's for many of the reasons noted above.  Saw some big names in decline, disintegrate, and/or go commercial.  But there was still plenty of good things going on.  The Dregs unfortunately did come to a screeching halt in '82,which was a big bummer at the time even though Steve carried on solo.

Hey thanks, Slarti!  You are right, the Dregs did screetch to a halt in the 80's.  

However, I had the AMAZINGLY good fortune to see the renewed Dixie Dregs at the Chicago venue "Park West"  in the early 1990's!  (I've seen everyone from Discipline-King Crimson to Porcupine Tree to Al Dimeola to Brand X etc. etc. at this place!).

The amazing Jerry Goodman, ex-Flock and Mahavishnu Orchestra, was on violin!  I was so close to the guy that I could have pulled the cord out of his wah-wah pedal! 

I'd put that gig right about late '93 or early '94.  Steve Morse put on a guitar clinic with his recently-adopted guitar synth skills, and SHREDDED the life out of his axe!!   Andy West held down the bass spot, and Rod Morgenstern did the drum (I met a guy who came to the show primarily to see Morgenstern). 

These prog acts seem to come and go, don't they?  Right now, the big barrier to a LOT of bands coming back around is access to funds, they are all talking about it.  John Goodsall would love to restart Brand X, but getting the backing is elusive.  He ends up having to play four-hour sets with cover bands at county fairs and casinos in Minnesota.  Sick.  

Anyway, prog seemed to go more underground....and the pop of the 80's did have a progressive flavor to it.  I was fond of Big Country, U-2, China Crisis, Men At Work, Devo etc. during those years, there was some very good music being made all over.  I had fun, anyway!!  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2012 at 23:31

I think what really happened in the 80's is that the musical tastes of the wide public had gradually shifted away from the 70's-style progressive rock. Whereas it's true that many titans from the 70's had run out of steam (ELP, Jethro Tull), others morphed into less-, or non-proggy entities (Yes, Genesis), but many continued to soldier on, and many more joined the movement - as discussed above.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2012 at 09:54
Ahhh, the 80's, yea, there was still great prog being produced by the familiar faces of Eno, Fripp, Gabriel, Mac n' Cheeze...
Thanks Salty Jon, yea! Try some Thinking Plague on yer cereal, Lindsay.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2012 at 17:27
The eighties were awful, and I don't accept all the bright spots people have tried to pull out of it. It seems to me the best amounted to:

1980s
Steve Hackett - Defector (other good stuff too e.g. Momentum, but not progressive)
Marillion - Script for a Jester's Tear only (the others were sell outs)
Rush - Moving Pictures only (the others were sell outs)
King Crimson - red, blue, and yellow (for short) Discipline especially
Adrian Belew's solo work
Frank Zappa (if he's progressive. He never used to be called that.)
Steve Vai - Flexable (is this progressive?)
Peter Gabriel - Security only (I like So, but it's not progressive) ...oh and Passion too
Jethro Tull in the eighties? ...well, the concerts were good

Musical eras don't nice and neatly into decades, though. The decline into the dark ages I think began in the late seventies. The nineties and the 2000s are better. Made so for me by Steve Hackett, who has never been better. Otherwise, I'm trying to catch up on what's out there now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2012 at 19:24
Originally posted by Lindsay Lohan Lindsay Lohan wrote:

Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

Er... Marillion? Rush? Anyone?

Nah i think rush best time was in the 70s and i don't fancy marillion that much but perhaps marillion was the best prog band in the 80s...

 
Not better than IQ, in my book.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2012 at 03:16
Fates Warning had some great albums released throughout the latter part of the decade, such as No Exit and Perfect Symmetry! Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2012 at 23:30
Originally posted by Lindsay Lohan Lindsay Lohan wrote:

I personally think that the 80s is the worst era of prog and does not got any really incredible fantastic albums.


Edited by Nerd42 - July 03 2012 at 23:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2012 at 09:54
Strange how, when prog was declining in the late 70s, RIO was just getting started...
Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...
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