Video & PC Game Discussion

Ah but you can sacrifice yourself at the end of Planescape: Torment and thus make the whole thing pointless too. 

So I've been reading comments on YouTube about the endings.  I think I may end up liking the endings for many reasons but mostly because it pisses everyone off so much!

And some of the comments on there are really quite daft.  People actually want the "live happily ever after, have babies with my chosen romance" option.

That'd be the last thing I'd want happen.  I like dark endings that make you wonder what the hell was going on.

Having watched the supposed "Shephard Lives" ending, it appears that there could indeed be some truth in the indoctrination theory.  It does make sense.  That's why there's so many holes in the ending, like why is the Normandy where it is and why does it have those specific crew on it and how did they get there?  As well as how did the supposed living Shepard end up there?

Many people seem to think the post-Harbinger part is the indoctrination and the Destroy ending (and thus Shepard living) is the paragon ending.

I haven't played the game, so am only reiterating what others are saying.  From what I have seen though, the VI is not with you post-Harbinger, which is when people are saying Shepard became indoctrinated.  Therefore the VI wouldn't detect it.  Unless I'm missing something, which I could well be.

I don't believe the ending is broken.  BioWare planned this, I'm sure.  If this is the case, then some may say it is genius, others may say it's foolish.  We'll see!

Perhaps all these upset fans have been indoctrinated themselves by BioWare and it was all planned in the first place?  That'd be hilarious.


Edited by James - March 15 2012 at 16:47

So you're saying that what's in game is a sort of compromise and suggests he is indoctrinated but they couldn't get the mechanics right, so just hinted at it instead?

The End Save is pre-TIM, so any DLC could easily answer the ending post-TIM and properly explain things.  So no need to have a post-ending DLC at all.

If it is the case it's an indoctrination ending, then everything could be explained post-TIM and you could also have a proper epilogue showing what happened to all the NPCs.  It could explain the current end, rather than negating it as a false ending.

Also, Chris Priestly on the BioWare forums recently said they'd answer questions once people have had time to finish the game.  I believe it's only just been released in Asia, so they need to have playthroughs.  So I'd say in a month or so we may get some answers.


Edited by James - March 15 2012 at 17:43

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they had it already made, or it's near to being finished.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see a "part 2", which wouldn't be a DLC but a full release.

Edited by James - March 15 2012 at 20:35

James wrote: To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they had it already made, or it's near to being finished.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see a "part 2", which wouldn't be a DLC but a full release.

The odds of an ending DLC is near zero. The odds of a full release regarding Shepard actually is zero. ME3 is the end of Shep's story.

I feel like I should be making spoiler warnings by now...

You can see where they're really going with the ending: tabula rasa. They completely undid the world they created. The decision that was made is completely irrelevant: synthetics will exist post-Destroy ending, making that ending pointless; people are unlikely to stay glowy forever in the synthesis ending, and the control ending just leaves everyone where they are. The fate of the Reapers is irrelevant as well: they are gone no matter what you choose, be they destroyed, controlled, or no longer interested in harvesting life. Time is advanced hundreds if not thousands of years, allowing time for events to become equivalent. New species appear, maybe. So on, so forth.

Henry Plainview wrote: Gamemako wrote: James wrote: Also, Chris Priestly on the BioWare forums recently said they'd answer questions once people have had time to finish the game.  I believe it's only just been released in Asia, so they need to have playthroughs.  So I'd say in a month or so we may get some answers. They want to see how it plays in other markets. They're probably hoping Asian markets to be more fond of both the sacrificial lamb aspect and the hybridization ending. It's not like they'd really be out of the planning stages of any ending DLC before word comes in anyway. Asia may have different perceptions of what a game should be, but I can't imagine them being happy with having to kill this whole world Bioware created for absolutely no reason. I remember when people like Yahtzee were complaining ME1 had too much dialogue and text saying that I could spend a whole game in the Citadel just talking to people and doing stupid fetch quests. Too bad that I guess that EA or Bioware doesn't agree.

They haven't killed the whole of the Mass Effect world.

James wrote: They haven't killed the whole of the Mass Effect world.

They just destroyed the homeworlds of all major races as well as the galactic hub, and then made sure everyone was good and isolated. Nearly every leader and scientist in the world is dead, and the few that are alive are marooned on Earth. Due to the possibility of total annihilation, the Rachni, Quarians, and Geth are almost certainly also going to be gone for good. Eezo still exists, but that's about it.

James wrote: Here's the Tweet: "Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning...you'd, we'll - hold onto your copy of me3 forever."

That was at least a week ago. They hadn't even really acknowledged the ending mess by that point.

//EDIT: Durr, failed to respond to third message.

James wrote: I think you missed my point.  I said it wouldn't be a post-ending DLC but would still properly end the Shepard story.

Wait, did you watch the ending? Shepard dies. Only with the 4000+ EMS Destroy option will he live, and that's likely to go... nowhere. Without undoing the ending, there's nothing more to add.

James wrote: Of course their plans are for other Mass Effect games not involving Shepard.  I suspect an MMO of some kind... What makes you think they won't make a full-release?  That's your own opinion.  Yes they've said there won't be any post-ending DLC but that's not the same thing.

They said that ME3 will end Shepard's story. And guess what? He's dead again, and not coming back unless the events of the ending didn't happen.

James wrote: Some are saying the Control ending doesn't destroy the relays but they're just basing that on the end movie. I am fairly sure though that BioWare planned this.  It may be a poor set of endings (most people say there's 3 but there's supposed to be 16 but they all look so similar, that 3 is what most people assume) but I don't believe BioWare screwed it up.  So wait patiently and all shall be revealed.

The control ending destroys the relays. It does not, however, destroy the Citadel. Shep still dies. There are effectively 6 endings: Destroy the Reapers and vaporize everything on Earth, destroy the Reapers and still leave Earth in shambles, destroy and save Earth, control and leave Earth in shambles, control and save Earth, and synthesis saves Earth.

BioWare screwed up massively with DA2. They've learned from their mistakes, and it shows, but that doesn't mean they can't screw up again. I honestly just don't think they planned for this kind of backlash.


Edited by Gamemako - March 16 2012 at 16:00

James wrote: This depends on whether the post-Harbinger part is real or not.  However, I gather the developers have confirmed the relays are destroyed and there won't be any post-ME3 games.  That therefore means any future games, books or comics will be in the timeline before the end of ME3.

I don't think they have said specifically that there won't be post-2186 games, only that there is a rich lore to draw on for more games. Still, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that there is indeed nothing after ME3. Related, something I just posted somewhere else:

Myself wrote: Because of the ending, I don't know that we'll ever see the future of the galaxy any time soon. They'll probably go backwards in time for future titles. It's just much easier. Trying to keep up with the difference between Destroy and Control and the state of Earth... the more I think about it, the more I think that the series is done moving forward. It will have to leap forward hundreds or thousands of years to make future development feasible at all. Then add in the horrible business with the races (3 races may be alive or extinct depending on your choices) and then the pain in the ass that is the synthesis ending and you pretty much have a recipe for end-of-the-line. The biggest problem, really, is the quantum tech which still allows instant communication across the galaxy. The world isn't even fully isolated. Consider 4 possible endings: Destroy, high-EMS: Reapers lying around everywhere for people to strip down and scour for tech. Yum! Earth isn't in the best shape, but it's still there. Alien warriors and scientists abound. FTL tech still operational. Quantum tech still operational. Shepard maybe even alive. Geth are not. EDI is not (though her ghost haunts some planet outside the old Charon relay). Rachni may or may not be around. Lots of resources for rebuilding relays on Earth. Maybe not anywhere else. Control, low EMS: Reapers leave. Earth in shambles. No Reaper tech to study. Situation makes rebuilding relays difficult. Also limited communication via entanglers. Geth alive. EDI is alive, but inaccessible . Barring Shepard using the Reapers to rebuild the relays, there aren't going to be any new relays. Isolation. Self-doubt. Destroy, very low EMS: Everyone on Earth is dead. A few survivors in ships, maybe, but very low EMS means there weren't many up there to begin with. Reaper tech around, but not many people to work on it. Hard to rebuild relays or communicate with so few people and resources left. Shepard clearly dead. Let's say the Quarians are dead here too. Giant cluster****. Synthesis, always ends well: Reapers leave. Earth not so bad. Organic life all now part synthetic. No Reaper tech around for study, though, which makes rebuilding the relays a challenge. Life is no longer equivalent in this case to the other options. Might be glowy, as it is in the demo. No reason to believe any species would die of age anymore. Have fun writing around that. Now, how do you reconcile these possibilities? Sure, you can move a few thousand years forward and say everyone became cybernetic of their own free will and some other such nonsense... but you're going to step on a lot of toes no matter how you do it. It's sad, really, because there are hundreds of billions of galaxies to explore, and the ME universe could have really accelerated by incorporating Reaper tech and expanding rather than dumping a classic population bottleneck on us.

James wrote: Yes, about 6 or 7 days ago.  However, it says there are things planned.  So it's still worth considering that they planned this all along.

Nobody plans bad press. They aren't going to completely undo their endings with DLC.

James wrote: I'm aware of that.  Again though if Shepard is Indoctrinated or Hallucinating, then none of that happened.

That is, they will have to undo their ending completely. That can't turn out well: you waste resources to undo your ending, and then all you get is more people pissed at you for undoing the bad ending you already did. I find it extremely unlikely that they'll do it, even with the backlash.

James wrote: It has ended Shepard's story.  Although he/she is still alive in one ending.  However, that doesn't stop them releasing DLC pre-ending that fleshes out the story somewhat.  It'd still be ME3-related.

Yes, but the ending will still be the same. They can't change it.

James wrote: I still think there will be a logical explanation and it was all deliberate.  We'll see.

I think they just dropped the ball.

Alitare wrote: I haven't played ME3, but am dying to. I'm glad I was able to skip over most of this without reading too much. Except for that whole 'Shephard dies or is indoctrinated, all the hub worlds are eliminated, life as they know it is thrown into catastrophe, blah blah'. That sucked. Now I dunno if I'll get it at all.

ME3's ending is really, really bad. Not from a bleakness standpoint, but from a sweet-Jesus-this-makes-no-damn-sense standpoint. If you play ME3, play it for everything else -- which is pretty good -- and steel yourself for the worst ending in memory. The worse you imagine it, the less disappointed you will be. When a game has an ending that generates $66,000 in charity donations (at time of this post) as a protest, you know you have something... special.