Clean Vocals or Death Growl? (Modern Prog)

King Crimson776 wrote: Bonnek wrote: At least growls ain't cheesy. You're kidding, right

bucka001 wrote: Dean wrote:   Not all growls are the same, they are not all used to portray anger or demonic possesion, they carry emotion as well as any other form of singing, and more importantly, they fit the music, just as Jon Anderson could never sing "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and Ian Anderson could never sing You and I - there are plenty of Prog singers who are unable to sing of lambs frolicking in the hills, rainbows or the beautiful side of life... Peter Hammill for a start, nor would we ever want him to.    I get where you're coming form and agree with what you say, but just to nitpick for a sec...   Hammill wouldn't sing of lambs frollicking or unicorns, etc, but he has (successfully) sang some very positive and beautiful lyrics that rejoice in just being alive. "A Better Time," for example. He's one of those singers who sound like two completely different people depending on what song you're listening to (he can offer up harsh, grating vocals for darker subject matter, and sweet "clean" vocals when that suits the subject matter -- and he's one of the few vocalists who has the chops to do it). Rarely have I heard a man overdub to be his own convincing chorus, ala A Better Time   http://youtu.be/FJwhI4ewnfs

Fair point well made.  Hammill's softer vocals have always been a favourite of mine - there are quite a few prog vocalists whose harsh and grating vocals have a softer side - Michael Chapman, Ian Anderson and Peter Gabriel could also switch vocal styles effectively.

DavetheSlave wrote: Imagine going back in time and a mistrel deciding that to use death growls in his material was the way to go - I kind of think that the witch hunters would have been quite excited and that the stake would have had an immediate new victim. That kinda says it all for me. You can't sing about lambs frolicking in the hills, rainbows or the beautiful side of life using death growls and I tend to vector onto the positive energy side as well as the beautiful side. I also enjoy the opposite side being sadness in music. I've never heard of sadness being portrayed properly by growling. Extreme Anger - now there's an emotion where I can imagine Death Growls could have a place - why on earth would I want to hear some guy vent an albums worth of anger? The Demonic?  - ya of course - Death Growls would apply - then again I aint to enamored with the idea of listening to some guy imparting his demonic wetdream to me in music.   To me I can handle growls provided they are used in an operatic or a dramatic sense where it is demanded in the story that the music is trying to portray and thus growls have a place - albeit small - in music as far as I'm concerned. Hell when I was younger I was the vice leader of a renowned bike group here in SA for a time and even in that environment if some guy approached us in a bar death growling a greeting I think he would have been smacked upside of the head. So - in essense I do not enjoy certain extreme metal bands at all - and that coming from a guy raised on Black Sabbath, Budgie, Judas Priest may sound a bit off but it is the way it is. Huge difference between Halford, Gillian, Byron, Osborne etc and some guy who invariably can't sing to save his life and thus prefers to growl all the time. Love Opeths new album - why?  - any guesses?

CPicard wrote: What about death vocals and clean growls?

Both.

Really just depends on the music and more importantly the vocalist. I'm 100% fine with either, and both can sound like crap.
Growls for the sake of it (something which plagues many many metal bands) are no good. It needs to fit the music, when you get used to it...if done well growls are great. While it may sound silly to some, it is a lot like clean singing in that there are different styles and some are better than others at it.

I love Opeth, one of my favorite bands and part of the reason is Mikael. If you don't like growls that's fine and I totally get it...but you mentioned Opeth and isn't that one example of how someone who CAN actually sing does growls?  There are others, and not even "big" names but local bands I heard where kids can do both well.

As it was said above that was a very lazy stereotype. If you don't like it fine but please realize it's an acceptable form of vocals that if done right and fits, can be great and does NOT mean the person can't sing clean for crap.

Besides, I love Opeth's new album because musically it is also very good. I liked it more than Damnation because that album was not quite as good, and both feature clean vocals. Likewise his growly albums hold different places in my heart. People that say "ugh this band is good minus the growls" or "I like this Opeth because its growl free" make no sense to me and I question how intently they really listen or care to try it.

DavetheSlave wrote:  why on earth would I want to hear some guy vent an albums worth of anger?

Edited by Redug - January 13 2012 at 08:15

Bit late to the party, but I'll throw my ten pence in, for a giggle...

I'm a pretty well versed metalhead so I don't mind them at all, I'd imagine my ears pick up on the subtleties in the different vocalists styles a lot more than a prog fan who's only experience with this style is Opeth and BTBAM (and they use a form of hardcore vocals, not death growls, for the record). I'm somebody who can pretty clearly understand Cannibal Corpse's lyrics, to give you an idea (even though Cannibal Corpse sucks). I'm also somebody who usually doesn't care about lyrics.

This discussion has sadly been completely flawed by the silly thread title - of course nobody will want growls in "prog". The OP specifies that the question is in fact about tech/extreme metal not any "prog", but unfortunately too many posters only look up the thread title and go directly to "Post Reply" (I know I do it too sometimes ).

Yeah, I do like and want some proper growling in my extreme progressive metal. The only problem I have with growls is that I can't take my girl to such a concert.