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AllP0werToSlaves 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 29 2009 Status: Offline Points: 249 |
 Posted: February 28 2011 at 10:55 |
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Oh I definitely agree rogerhat! That's actually what I was getting to; most modern bands stagnate and don't do much to progress. You will always hear me reference GORGUTS because their progression leaves most of the early 90's death metal acts in the dust; they are a shining example of genre transcendence without losing any integrity in their sound. My main grip is these modern metal acts signed to huge labels who are all image and no substance, but hey, that's the (sinking) music business!
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40footwolf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010 Status: Offline Points: 651 |
Posted: February 28 2011 at 18:47 |
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Of course if you only pay attention to mainstream metal you're going to find a bunch of garbage. Mainstream everything is garbage. You can't make a judgement call on an entire genre of anything if you're only going to scrape the surface. Salome put this album out in 2008. Tell me, does it sound "tame" to you? |
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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AllP0werToSlaves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 29 2009 Status: Offline Points: 249 |
Posted: February 28 2011 at 20:32 |
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Yes, but try having a conversation regarding metal from beneath the surface with someone who only listens to bands from said surface lol. People who claim to like metal yet only reference the surface bands make for quick conversation.
Edited by AllP0werToSlaves - February 28 2011 at 20:34 |
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40footwolf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010 Status: Offline Points: 651 |
Posted: February 28 2011 at 20:35 |
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I agree, I wrote that before I noticed the first post you wrote on this page. My bad.
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011 Location: internet Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 09:51 |
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I think the answer to the question of whether growls are a legitamite musical device is somewhat dependant on your answer to the question "what is music?" Those who define music in a more traditional sense tend to dismiss growls as "noise," while those more broad in their definition tend to accept them and their emotional value. This doesn't mean that growl-haters are somehow close-minded; we have to draw the line somewhere between music and noise. It seems that line is being pushed farther and farther toward the "noise" side of the spectrum. But that might not be totally a bad thing; the original rock artists (those we call oldies and classic rock today) were called "noise" by their dectractors. Maybe in another fifty years, growls will be generally accepted and we'll be debating about some other abrasive technique.
Still, I don't know that growling will stand the test of time. In the future, I think that people will be able to artistically respect progressive metal bands that used growls but I wouldn't say that growls will still be used 100 years from now. I understand the emotional value of harsh vocals; sometimes the music is so agonizing and the theme so heavy that artists almost have to use growls to accurately portray the emotion of the music. But I think that in the future, musicians will find other ways to portray these emotions and growls, though accepted, will become less prominent. That's just a theory, though.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 09:56 |
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^^^ One point I would like to make in that respect is dissonant or extreme music finds a parallel in the sounds of the modern, industrial world. I am not sure what part of human existence growls are supposed to parallel. I like growls...in extreme metal, which is mad, over the top music and I like it because, well, it's so different from conventional notions of music. But growls are still generally over the top and are best used to convey horror or evil and not much else. Harsh vocals as a whole is a different ballgame; shrieks, screams, moans, shouts etc all serve a purpose to project uncomfortable emotions in a way that mirrors reality more rather than filtering it through a romantic prism.
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Cimnele
Forum Newbie 
Joined: December 26 2011 Status: Offline Points: 39 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 11:08 |
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I find it hard to make a choice between one of the two - both have been employed to stunning, unforgettable effect in the music that I love.
Having said that, screams, grunts and growls are as dead as the arena rock macho singing voice - like it or not, they have become adopted gimmicks, mostly perpetuated by musicians who just wanted to be in a band and who did no thinking at all about why, or about what they wanted to achieve. When you hear a modern album featuring either you should realise that you're listening to depersonalized, half-hearted novelty music. Hopefully the practised listener eventually tires of all the assumed, propogated, hereditary non-artist gimmicks and seeks the bands and performers who have found vocal methods which actually lend personality to the music - it can't be found in any band which employs a given vocal approach simply to identify more with the genre they're aiming for. |
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008 Location: Somewhere Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 11:34 |
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I don't listen to a single band with death growl vocals, I haven't come across one that does good prog. The closest thing is Payne-era Asia, but he's not really growling that much.
IMO, a singer should sing in a natural voice, that keeps with the music but is close to the correct enunciation of the language. It is supposed to be a form of communication. |
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 11:37 |
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Beardfish makes good prog.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 11:43 |
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growls < black metal shrieks, anyway
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 11:50 |
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All clean vocals should be replaced with death growls, there is no other option.
   Edited by Slartibartfast - December 26 2011 at 11:51 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011 Location: internet Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 13:22 |
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Yeah, I kind of mixed up growls with harsh vocals in my last post. I think harsh vocals in general will continue to be used in music, at least for effect. But I don't think growls can only be used to convey evil or horror; I'm a musician, and when I delve into the depths of the human soul I often find agonizing emotions that to me, seem to warrant a stanza or two of growling. I think it depends on the musician/singer and the way in which he expresses himself. Everyone experiences the emotions of love, grief, sadness, and many others in different ways, and I could see why two musicians in similar emotional situations might express themselves in two different ways, be that clean vocals vs. growls, screaming vs. yelling, or any other difference between the vocal style. That's all part of what gives the world of music it's vast diversity; we were all created differently, we all express our emotions differently, and we all relate to different types of expression. I would agree with you, though, that growls can often become over-the-top and used just to be brutal for brutality's sake, rather than to convey emotion. They are also overused in modern metal music, which is one of the reasons I only use them sparingly in my own music.
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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1029 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 15:37 |
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All of you oldies who don't like death growls are not fans of Piltdown Man on Tubular Bells part 2, then? ;)
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2601 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 15:45 |
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Also the over use makes this technique seem like a trend (bandwagon jumping) and unless it's done truly effectively can make for comedic moments. Unintentional perhaps but I've heard a lot that make me smile.
But excessive vocalising in metal is nothng new. David Coverdale used to scream (wordless) encouragement between Deep Purple numbers. This was not only not funny but annoying and embarrasing I think he's stopped that now. I suppose the growl kind of originated with Gene Simmons and his God of Thunder thing... then it went (downhill?) from there. There was an unreleased P Tree number performed about the time of Blank Planet which featured SW trying the growl. It is not unreleased for good reasons... That's an experimental number and SW is to be commended for both seeing what works or not, but given credit for his courage - I do not want to put this guy down. His example is that he undertsands that such overt techniques need to be expressed as an effect and / or with taste. This last quality is not necessarily a characteristic common to metal... I think it was Korn who did an extreme metal version of the Rod Stewart number D'Ya Think I'm SExy. Now this (I think) was meant to be funny (as well) and it worked... |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 18:02 |
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3 years from now (maybe less) growls will be consigned to the dumpster of passing fads where they will rub dusty shoulders with slap bass, syn drums, fake Jamaican accents, gated drums, spandex, phased drum fills, tb303s, n-n-n-nineteen samples and female diva goths in gloves irrespective of the weather.
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DreamInSong
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 18:08 |
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If you asked me two years ago, I would have said "Clean vocals, no contest." However, in recent times, I've grown accustomed to screams and growls, and in some cases, I actually like them. Then again, you can't sing much of a melody with growls and screams, so... Clean vocals, no contest... I guess nothing has really changed
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12724 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 18:43 |
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I also think the over use of growls makes it less atractive to me. If it was only a few very good songs using growling or harsh vocals I might even find them very atractive, but as it is used, the concept isn't tasteful for me. Now I can tolerate them more because I've been listening to some music with growls which I really like, but the growling as such is not one of the elements I like. There are very few songs in which I actually like the harsh vocals. Imagine if Pink Floyd had started a whole sub-genre of music based on the screams they used on "Careful with that axe, Eugene"... I really love that song, but one song is more than enough for that scream. |
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005 Location: hell Status: Offline Points: 28427 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 18:51 |
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No they won't. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 19:00 |
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Yeah, I think harsh vocals per se are here to stay and rock tends more towards harsh rather than clean vocals because we don't have all that many imposing clean singers in rock now. |
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Dean
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 26 2011 at 19:04 |
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Did we really need to have this thread revived after being dead for 300 days
People who like growls like growls and those that don't don't, people who don't mind them don't mind them and those that like them in moderation like them in moderation. Nothing will change.
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What?
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Clean Vocals or Death Growl? (Modern Prog)
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AllP0werToSlaves wrote: