Rapper El-P Samples Tom Sawyer

The Dark Elf wrote: SolarLuna96 wrote: The Dark Elf wrote: Hey look! I stole someone else's song, chopped it into tiny bits, added a drum machine, and mumbled doggerel verse over it!   That must make me a musician! That's not at all what he did...   Really? That's all I heard. Sadly for the rapper, the best parts were whenever he didn't interrupt Rush.

Somehow I doubt you could do better. I sure couldn't.
Look, I don't like rap at all and but get its appeal and I respect it as an art form as good as any other. No need to be a snob about it. That's where the negative stereotypes of prog fans come from.

The Dark Elf wrote: You speak of some generic "prog fan" as if I fit in some neat little demographic. I am a fan of a wide array of music, and I happen to enjoy certain prog bands, not all prog bands.   I don't consider rap to be music. Sorry if that offends your tender sensibilities. If it is "snobbery", I can live with that quite contentedly. I don't really care what might be construed as "negative stereotypes"; as a matter of fact, rap is one big ball of self-perpetuating negative stereotypes. I don't respect it, don't consider it an art form, and if I could live the rest of my life not having that bilge forced on me, so much the better.   Your opinion may differ. C'est la vie.

I didn't say anything about you or judge you as a person. I said that the kind of attitude you showed in that particular post is the kind that contributes to prog fans in general being stereotyped as elitist.
It doesn't offend me in the least. I didn't mean to offend you either. But I think it's close minded to say that it's not music and not art. That's elitist and snobby by definition.
I don't know what bilge you're talking about either - if you don't like it, don't listen to it.


Edited by The Miracle - November 09 2011 at 22:58

The Dark Elf, nobody cares that your personal definition of music is so ludicrously twisted that rap does not fit in it, please stop.

Also, by claiming that all rap is "one big ball of self-perpetuating negative stereotypes" it becomes clear to me that you've only really heard what is popular.  One of my friends introduced me to some underground rap/hip hop which he enjoys, and not only are the groups musically more interesting than mainstream hip hop/rap artists, but they're also lyrically more interesting, not conforming to the stereotypes which you appear to be assuming all rap conforms to. 

I still haven't explored most of it as it's still not quite my cup of tea, but I've heard a few artists who I really enjoy. 

npjnpj wrote: It's NOT music! And please don't ask me what it is then, or I might have to elaborate and probably get banned.

You have our undivided attention

Music, as defined by a dictionary:

npjnpj wrote: It's NOT music! And please don't ask me what it is then, or I might have to elaborate and probably get banned.

/facepalm

I cannot make claim to Rap Music being music at all unfortunately due to my experience as a music teacher/instructor. The other side of the spectrum weighs me down and I can't join forces with Rap in giving it that kind of credit. I've seen Rap performed on poetry night at Barnes & Noble and Borders Books. The improvisation aspect to it is amazing. To actually have the ability to perhaps jump ahead of yourself during word thought and improvise rhymes off the top of your head is a very difficult task to perform. As you rap,...you are also thinking of another word that will rhyme with the one you are currently speaking. So you are seperating your thoughts from your performance like a machine that has boxes of words stored in your mind and you're just pulling them out like a magician pulls a rabbit out of a hat. The same method applies to sight reading music. When you're playing the 2nd measure of a Classical piece...your eyes are reading and your mind is memorizing the 5th and 6th measure. So you are always ahead of yourself. I have noticed over the years that Rap Music doesn't put much emphasis on the work of harmony. Although over the years some Jazz musicians have recorded Rap albums and included diverse elements that were more directly rooted from instruments themselves and not constant drum machines and samples of other artists pieces. My personal deal is that everytime the 60's and early 70's is represented through all T.V broadcasts, radio, Rap Music, etc.....it is just sooooooo wrong. It's like going on youtube to look up some 60's band that is unknown today perform. A band that most people in the world believe is obscure where in my life during 1967 they were bigger than sliced bread. This sort of representation through the publications industry has been dead wrong since the mid 70's with the promotion of artists like Robin Trower the Hendrix copycat and forming this idealogy for people in life that all of these "Classic Rockers" like Frampton, Rush, and the later Pink Floyd are the cream of the crop for the quote on quote "Classic Rock" generation and even the early 70's generation. This is ridiculous and is insulting. It's like hiding the truth from the younger generations of today who might be interested in investigating the 60's and because they trust in the media they follow the life of Jimi Hendrix and dismiss everyone else that played great guitar in the 60's except for the 3 guys in the Yardbirds. If everyone wants to believe that way fine, but it is not honesty. 

TODDLER wrote:  It's like going on youtube to look up some 60's band that is unknown today perform. A band that most people in the world believe is obscure where in my life during 1967 they were bigger than sliced bread. This sort of representation through the publications industry has been dead wrong since the mid 70's with the promotion of artists like Robin Trower the Hendrix copycat and forming this idealogy for people in life that all of these "Classic Rockers" like Frampton, Rush, and the later Pink Floyd are the cream of the crop for the quote on quote "Classic Rock" generation and even the early 70's generation. This is ridiculous and is insulting. It's like hiding the truth from the younger generations of today who might be interested in investigating the 60's and because they trust in the media they follow the life of Jimi Hendrix and dismiss everyone else that played great guitar in the 60's except for the 3 guys in the Yardbirds. If everyone wants to believe that way fine, but it is not honesty.  At any rate most of the kids I taught who were interested in Rap Music thought immediately that because of my age..that would equal my interest in music to be the usual suspects from the 60's and 70's. It's because they are being educated wrong. The radio used to educate people to "Rock Music" and that concept started to die in 1972 around the time of developing "Stadium Rock' which was cheap and contrived. . How can people ever learn anything when they have  falsehood representation from the media? That's why when the local rap student observes that his dad is a Clapton or Rush fan.....that  X equals square and the end. They simply define other generations with the representation that the media has for them on a silver platter. What's up with that? Hasn't anyone ever notice the vast quanity of people in society who are brainwashed to believe in this way of thinking?

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with this. Bands like Glass Harp, Focus, Wishbone Ash, etc. were a lot more talented and better than a lot of the popular "Classic rock" but they're pretty much forgotten these days...