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A Person 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
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Points: 65760
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 Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:58 |
 Triceratopsoil wrote:
Anyway, why are we talking about Leng T'Che when this thread should be about Delicior Ribbon Pink Beel (Music of Death)
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That album is pretty bad.
Negoba wrote:
What exactly makes this piece redeemable anyway? |
I just find it to be an enjoyable avant drone/doom album, although the vocals are somewhat off-putting.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:58 |
Anthony H. wrote:
I never said he did. I'm sure some people genuinely do like it, but I'm also sure that a lot of other people like it for the reasons I mentioned. |
Even with your qualification, I still find this accusation rather offensive and impossible to prove. Do you have any logical basis for it other than your dislike? And Marco was pretty clearly joking.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 6088
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:58 |
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I apologize for the pseudo flame war I started, but I had to defend myself there.
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The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 21795
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:58 |
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Guys, we listen to prog. Don't you realize that we're all the ones with bad taste?
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:55 |
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Anyway, why are we talking about Leng T'Che when this thread should be about Delicior Ribbon Pink Beel (Music of Death)
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 6088
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:55 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Anthony H. wrote:
My point is: don't say that I have bad taste simply because I don't like a certain album. |
That is the opposite of what I am saying. In fact, it is the Leng T'che haters who are saying that when they say anyone who says they like it must be lying.
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You didn't say it, Marco did. He chalked this whole thread up to subjective taste and then proceeded to pull the "bad taste" card.
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 6088
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:54 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Anthony H. wrote:
My point is: don't say that I have bad taste simply because I don't like a certain album.
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It sounded like your point was that nobody actually likes Leng Tche. Although yeah, Marco shouldn't say you have bad taste, but you shouldn't say he does either.
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I never said he did. I'm sure some people genuinely do like it, but I'm also sure that a lot of other people like it for the reasons I mentioned.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:53 |
Anthony H. wrote:
My point is: don't say that I have bad taste simply because I don't like a certain album. |
That is the opposite of what I am saying. In fact, it is the Leng T'che haters who are saying that when they say anyone who says they like it must be lying.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:52 |
Negoba wrote:
What exactly makes this piece redeemable anyway? |
It's probably redeemable because people have different tastes than you.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:52 |
Anthony H. wrote:
My point is: don't say that I have bad taste simply because I don't like a certain album.
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It sounded like your point was that nobody actually likes Leng Tche. Although yeah, Marco shouldn't say you have bad taste, but you shouldn't say he does either.
Edited by Triceratopsoil - July 06 2011 at 13:52
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:51 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
You were mocking, by saying something that other people obviously think is a masterpiece or near to one is "the most aversive music they can find." |
It's a piece about extreme pain and cruelty. Of course it's aversive.
Some of the music I like is extremely aversive as well. Strapping Young Lad comes to mind. It's about rage and internalized hate. Sadly, that's an emotion some of us have felt.
Leng T'Che is about the darkest parts of the human soul. Living hell. I object to the premise, and I don't think the execution completed the mission.
What exactly makes this piece redeemable anyway?
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 6088
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:50 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Haha, Tony's review is great. I hadn't read Bob's before either, that's pretty epic.
Anthony H. wrote:
I don't give a goddamn if it's "original." It's
unpleasant to listen to. It's pretentious bullsh*t that people only like
because it's "avant" and/or "artsy." I understand what they were trying
to do, and it still sucks. I have a lot of respect for Zorn; he's made
a lot of great music. But he's made a lot of sh*tty music as well.
Get
off of the "originality" high horse. Is the music good? Does it move
you in some way? If yes, then who cares if something slightly similar
has been done before? I could record myself throwing up and layer it on
top of the sounds of machine gun fire. I could say that the album is
meant to make the listener "feel like they're in the middle of the war
disease causes within the human body." It would be original. But it
would also suck. |
Congratulations, you have hit every terrible cliche of arguing against avant-garde music you don't like.
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My point is: don't say that I have bad taste simply because I don't like a certain album.
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The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 21795
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:50 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
The Truth wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
Although I enjoy a fair slice of John ZornŽs music, and it has recently gotten some kind words, I do really detest Leng TchŽe |
Oh you. 
I see what people hate in it though, I've just got weird taste.
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Yes me 
IŽve got some weird tastes as well, but this album just doesnŽt work for me. Give me Ummagumma, Trout Mask Replica, Dark Magus or some Residents and IŽll be whistling in your garden wearing a diving suit and a lava brassier. |
I love pretty much all those you mentioned.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:47 |
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Leng T'che isn't even particularly "avant-garde," it's about as close to run-of-the-mill dronedoom as a jazz musician could make.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:44 |
Haha, Tony's review is great. I hadn't read Bob's before either, that's pretty epic.
Anthony H. wrote:
I don't give a goddamn if it's "original." It's
unpleasant to listen to. It's pretentious bullsh*t that people only like
because it's "avant" and/or "artsy." I understand what they were trying
to do, and it still sucks. I have a lot of respect for Zorn; he's made
a lot of great music. But he's made a lot of sh*tty music as well.
Get
off of the "originality" high horse. Is the music good? Does it move
you in some way? If yes, then who cares if something slightly similar
has been done before? I could record myself throwing up and layer it on
top of the sounds of machine gun fire. I could say that the album is
meant to make the listener "feel like they're in the middle of the war
disease causes within the human body." It would be original. But it
would also suck. |
Congratulations, you have hit every terrible cliche of arguing against avant-garde music you don't like.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:42 |
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Okay, so Tony isn't a doom/drone fan either.
Those are some nice reviews.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:40 |
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 6088
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:39 |
Polo wrote:
I don't get these threads. It's all a matter of taste after all.
But bad taste does exist 
Anthony H. wrote:
Oh my god, I forgot about Leng T'che. I think that takes the take as the worst. |
Leng Tch'e is a pretty good album for doom-metal/drone metal/avant-garde enthusiasts. You can only pretend it's bad if you:
1) like neo-prog or Dream Theater or generic prog metal bands that try too hard to imitate DT 2) can't separate art with a sense of originality from meritless copies (see item 1) 3) have bad taste in music (see item 1)
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I don't give a goddamn if it's "original." It's unpleasant to listen to. It's pretentious bullsh*t that people only like because it's "avant" and/or "artsy." I understand what they were trying to do, and it still sucks. I have a lot of respect for Zorn; he's made a lot of great music. But he's made a lot of sh*tty music as well. Get off of the "originality" high horse. Is the music good? Does it move you in some way? If yes, then who cares if something slightly similar has been done before? I could record myself throwing up and layer it on top of the sounds of machine gun fire. I could say that the album is meant to make the listener "feel like they're in the middle of the war disease causes within the human body." It would be original. But it would also suck.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:39 |
Negoba wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Negoba wrote:
I personally think it's emperor's new clothes. People trying to fake being cool by pretending to like the most aversive music they can find.
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Your opinion isn't rendered any more potent by mocking the tastes of others.
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I wasn't mocking. Some people do, in fact, listen to certain music simply as a component of a personality and image they are creating for themselves. Some folks do this with reasonable intentions. But you can dive so deep that you lose touch with reality.
Leng Tche is at the far end of the spectrum at so many levels that making it work would have been a collossal achievement. The fact that the subject matter itself is on the extremes of human cruelty means that the piece is going to have to prove itself to me that it has earned drawing me in to a realm so dark. I don't want to be tortured personally. If there is something to be gained by exploring that piece of human experience, I'm willing to think about it.
And you must realize that if you say "I personally like representations of the extremes of human cruelty" some eyebrows are going to go up.
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Sorry bro but it's a good album.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:32 |
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You were mocking, by saying something that other people obviously think is a masterpiece or near to one is "the most aversive music they can find."
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