Joni Mitchell for Fusion or Crossover - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Svetonio

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Topic: Joni Mitchell for Fusion or Crossover
Posted: June 14 2011 at 03:32

Joni Mitchell did do alot of nice fusion stuff and colaborated with many great jazz artists as for example Jaco Pastorius, Pat Metheny, etc.

Edited by Svetonio - June 14 2011 at 06:43

Bonnek

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 03:42

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43043&KW=joni+mitchel&PID=2675607#2675607

Svetonio

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 03:56

Bonnek wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43043&KW=joni+mitchel&PID=2675607#2675607

"Only members with sufficient permission can access this page" Must be some big secret...

Edited by Svetonio - June 14 2011 at 04:11

Bonnek

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 05:21

Oh I hadn't checked the forum origin, no secrets anyway, just a 4 year old discussion explaining she would be no fit for prog folk nor jazz rock

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 05:53

Bottom line seems to be that if you are well known and your body of music doesn't neatly fit in to a particular subgenre, it's like pulling teeth to get in. Crossover then? Tongue

Edited by Slartibartfast - June 14 2011 at 06:41

Svetonio

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 06:22

Slartibartfast wrote:

Bottom line seems to be that if you are well known and your body of music doesn't neatly fit in to a particular subgenre, it's like pulling teeth to get in. Crossover then? Tongue

Crossover - why not?

For me (the guy from another corner of the world), Joni Mitchell always was a part of that U.S. Prog (Joni as the subgenre per se).

Edited by Svetonio - June 14 2011 at 07:16

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 06:41

Actually, I threw out the Crossover suggestion only partially joking. That run of albums she did from Court And Spark to Mingus are the ones I'd put forward. Possibly Dog Eat Dog and Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm also. I don't care so much for the earlier stuff. I'd be surprised if this hasn't come up with the team already.

Svetonio wrote:

Bonnek wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43043&KW=joni+mitchel&PID=2675607#2675607

"Only members with sufficient permission can access this page" Must be some big secret...

Oh yeah, I actually started that one in 2007 and it didn't gain any momentum. Fizzled rather quickly.

There are a couple of access by collaborators only sections in the forums. Let's see if this one garners any more attention in the open forums.

Oh, keep an eye out for this thread to get moved as she isn't really new. Wink

Edited by Slartibartfast - June 14 2011 at 07:01

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 07:02

If you are interested, Joni is already on the jazz site, in fact there is a nice review of one of her albums on the front page.
www.jazzmusicarchives.com

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 07:30

Easy Money wrote:

If you are interested, Joni is already on the jazz site, in fact there is a nice review of one of her albums on the front page.
www.jazzmusicarchives.com

Thanks for the tip. I haven't visited the site yet.

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Posted: June 14 2011 at 07:44

Slart, have you ever made the case for PR, based on the albums from Hissing through Mingus? Could be worth a shot. Smile

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Posted: April 18 2013 at 20:34

May not make music that most people would call 'prog', but absolutely a progressive artist in the broadest sense of the word.

chopper

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Posted: April 19 2013 at 08:13

sl75 wrote:

May not make music that most people would call 'prog', but absolutely a progressive artist in the broadest sense of the word.

Yes, but progressive does not mean the same as "prog".

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Posted: April 19 2013 at 12:36

chopper wrote:

sl75 wrote:

May not make music that most people would call 'prog', but absolutely a progressive artist in the broadest sense of the word.

Yes, but progressive does not mean the same as "prog".

Yes it does. Prog is short for progressive, or it certainly used to be when I was at school, and listened to the stuff in the old days.

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Andy Webb

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Posted: April 19 2013 at 13:26

Look at my last.fm sig - Joni is one of my favorite artists out there. I'd have a hard time justifying her being on PA though. Prog Related perhaps, due to her collabs with Jaco and Mingus and Metheny and the like, but it'd be a slim shot.

lucas

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Posted: April 19 2013 at 13:31

Let's 'see : Steely dan is in PA and their jazz-pop is in the same vein as some Joni albums of the seventies.

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Svetonio

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Posted: April 20 2013 at 02:19

lucas wrote:

Let's 'see : Steely dan is in PA and their jazz-pop is in the same vein as some Joni albums of the seventies.

IMHO both acts are genres in themselfs, long established and accepted by progresive rock audience, both are magnificient examples of the best of American progressive rock what have nothing in common with English progressive rock movement in late '60s - early '70s, but I could not suggested Mrs. Mitchell for "American Prog" because it does not exist as a PA genre as RPI as well. So, I suggested Mrs. Mitchell for Fusion or Crossover because, if I remember well, Steely Dan is already in Crossover.

BTW, I don't think that PR is a good idea; IMHO, Mrs. Mitchell would be in full prog category - Jazz Rock/ Fusion or Crossover; PR would be a perfect section for i.e. Steve Miller Band, or some other American act like that.

Just my opinion, of course.

Dean

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Posted: April 20 2013 at 05:08

^ Steely Dan is in Jazz-Rock/Fusion, not Crossover.

Folk-Jazz is not Jazz-Rock/Fusion (just as Jazz-Pop is not Jazz-Rock/Fusion) and it isn't Prog-Folk (just as Folk-Rock is not Prog-Folk). The addition of Mitchell into any Prog subgenre would be stretching the definitions of those genres beyond breaking-point. There is a line past which being inclusive becomes too inclusive. Mitchell is way beyond that line.

What?

Dayvenkirq View Drop Down

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Posted: April 20 2013 at 05:30

Then I only wonder why Pentangle and Bert Jansch are here. Ermm

Snow Dog

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Posted: April 20 2013 at 05:31

lazland wrote:

chopper wrote:

sl75 wrote:

May not make music that most people would call 'prog', but absolutely a progressive artist in the broadest sense of the word.

Yes, but progressive does not mean the same as "prog".

Yes it does. Prog is short for progressive, or it certainly used to be when I was at school, and listened to the stuff in the old days.

I think he is saying that "Progressive Music" is not the same as "Progressive Rock" and Prog is short for the latter. So progressive music is not neccesarily "Prog"

Dean

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Posted: April 20 2013 at 06:10

Dayvenkirq wrote:

Then I only wonder why Pentangle and Bert Jansch are here. Ermm

While you're at it, wonder why Fairport Convention and Fotheringgay (and Steeleye Span to a lesser extent) are in Prog Related then perhaps you'll get some measure of where the line between Prog-Folk and Folk-Rock lies.

What?