Thoughts on my taste?

Logan wrote: I have only now read a little bit of this thread (starting on first page), but it was very soon that someone implied that dfle is a troll due to list and told to stop his trolling when I see nothing wrong with how he replied, nor his list which I think heavily progressive rock (if not Prog genre proper).  That was really disrespectful and uncalled for as far as I can see.  I'd be disgruntled if I was treated that way at a site by a collaborator, and If I'd been around at the time and noticed I would have deleted those posts and issued a warning..

Logan wrote: I wasn't even talking about you or to you, and it was in response to the post before mine.

TheGazzardian wrote: Logan - given your comment I read the first page of this topic again and agree that the OP can't be held fully accountable for how things have gotten out of hand here. I think no one is blameless, some of the OPs comments have been inflammatory as anything else said in this topic and I think that's why things have continued. But you are correct, he was accused of trolling unreasonably off the bat. A bit sad really that it has come to this, so much mud slinging on each side. I mean, it's just music, guys!

wtf has been going on in here

The Gazzardian  understands perfectly well what I was talking about.  See his last post (did you read it?)  Please read the first page to see which posts I thought out of line:

TheGazzardian wrote: Logan - given your comment I read the first page of this topic again and agree that the OP can't be held fully accountable for how things have gotten out of hand here. I think no one is blameless, some of the OPs comments have been inflammatory as anything else said in this topic and I think that's why things have continued. But you are correct, he was accused of trolling unreasonably off the bat. A bit sad really that it has come to this, so much mud slinging on each side. I mean, it's just music, guys!

The Gazzardian seems to be the only one to understand what I was talking about based on posts here, and it was not a criticism of his post but it did relate to points he was mentioning before he edited (it was because of his post that I started to read the thread).  He is nice, and intelligent to boot.








Edited by Logan - April 15 2011 at 14:48

Sorry for the digression.  I'll try to bring this topic back on track, albeit sans any intelligent comments:

dfle3 wrote: I've only recently been exploring Prog rock...it had been my impression that what I considered to be The Dead Zone in music - from about a year or so before The Beatles broke up to the rise of groups like ABBA - coincided with the Prog moment in music. So, basically 'forced' myself to check out prog acts. Generally found it easy listening without having true classics as such...King Crimson's "The court of the Crimson King" title track being an exception. Anyway I've been compiling a list of the prog albums that I've heard and rating them. Curious as to what you make of my tastes, if you identify yourself as a 'real' Prog fan. Here's my list: http://rateyourmusic.com/list/dfle3/progressive_art_experimental_rock_albums_rated___ I did have that the impression that many of my selections might not be considered 'real' prog albums...but browsing a thread here I see that I may not be so 'out there' as I thought I was being...what, with the Black Sabbath albums...and you guys are counting Metallica too? I was just thinking of having "...and justice for all" in my list, but you guys seem to go further. Anyway, appreciate any thoughts you have on my list...hopefully the link works!

I think it's a good list. Magaical Mystery Tour is a very progressive album.  I've been a proponent for Cream in PA since I got here.  I think Wheels of Fire to be suitable for a progressive rock list (even if not Prog genre so much): Pasing the Time is  a particular fave of mine.  The Velvet Underground is also suiable, I think.  Black Sabbath's Paranoid, sure.  Jarre, if I had my way, would be in Progressive Elctronic rather than related -- Oxygene is a great album and very suitable.  I could go on with Hendrix etc., but I think it  a very good progressive rock list, and happen to like all of the albums I know to some extent.  I'm not so keen on Genesis' Selling England by the Pound.

I actually don't care about Prog (as some kind of genre), and prefer to think of  amuch wider kind of progressive (adjective) rock.  I do think that the 70's wa svery fertile, bvut have in the past conidered the 60's to be much more interesting.

Nice to see Einstein on the Beach, even if not rock I relate it to certian art rock.  Great music.  Could do with some Art Zoyd, Magma, Tangerine Dream, Comus, Soft Machine, Hancock, and Faust though. ;) Unless I missed any of those.

Here is the >link< made linkable.

Okay,back on track, here's the first page of the list:

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/dfle3/progressive_art_experimental_rock_albums_rated___

1		The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour (1967) November 27, 1967 5/5 This album neither appears in Prog magazine's readers poll nor Wikipedia with the label "progressive". It's probably not considered 'real' prog music, but it has lots of orchestral arrangements of songs...so I'll just plead ignorance of the genre and go with this as my #1. Many 'legitimate' prog acts have orchestral arrangements for their albums...so why doesn't this album count?
2		Black Sabbath Paranoid (1970) September 18, 1970 5/5 I'm on my own here, again. "Planet caravan" is a delightfully trippy, peaceful song...like a great King Crimson, Pink Floyd or Genesis song. "Rat salad" is a drum instrumental. "War pigs" had a proggy running time of over 8 minutes length. A highlight: Planet caravan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW3pZjmS3rg
3		Cream Wheels of Fire (1968) July 1968 5/5 Another "neither Prog nor Wikipedia" pick by me. Has a very English feel to it, not unlike, say, Genesis. That's why I'm listing it here. I love the spoken word track "Pressed rat and warthog". That's pretty progressive in my books.
4		The Velvet Underground The Velvet Underground (1969) March 1969 5/5 Wikipedia lists this album as "experimental rock" and "art rock". I love the spoken word track "Murder mystery"...that's pretty progressive in my view...but I'm not claiming any expertise in what constitutes the genre "progressive"...it does have some overlap, apparently with the genre "art rock"...so...broad definition here. Classic track: The murder mystery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReshXo9AJ_Q
5		Jean Michel Jarre Oxygene (1976) 1976 5/5 Another questionable addition by me...instrumental synthesiser tracks. Apparently led the synthesiser revolution in the 1970s, according to a Wikipedia for this album. The classics: Oxygene II http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q00HQwO2Sg Oxygene IV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DDEl7JnWvo
6		Patti Smith Easter (1978) March 1978 5/5 Commercial art rock type album. Hymnal to rock opera, with effective poetic lyrics...a quantum leap in accessibility and quality to her debut album, "Horses". I might be alone in thinking it belonging in a list like this.
7		The Velvet Underground The Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) March 12, 1967 9.5/10 Easy listening music but with lyrically challenging themes for the day. Genesis have made easy listening albums with less challenging lyrics but still get labelled "progressive"...why not this album?
8		Jimi Hendrix Electric Ladyland (1968) October 16, 1968 9+/10 Progressive guitar playing. I don't think that "Prog" magazine lists this album in its readers' poll, but Wikipedia does list it as being progressive rock.
9		Black Sabbath Sabotage (1975) July 28, 1975 9/10 Another unconventional pick by me. Black Sabbath always seemed to have really gobsmacking tracks on every album for a band with their name and playing the genre that they played. On this album it would be tracks like "Supertzar" (choral and strings) and "Don't start (too late)" with it's acoustic Spanish guitar.
10		Genesis From Genesis to Revelation (1969) March 1969 9/10 Their best album has a strong Bee Gees influence to it. Has orchestral instruments feature. Highlight: Am I very wrong? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hf8YBH-H2w
11		King Crimson In the Court of the Crimson King (1969) October 1969 9/10 #6 on "Prog" magazine's readers' poll. Took a punt buying this album. The title track is an instant classic. As with Genesis, it took them a few albums to approach this standard again. Classic track: The court of the crimson king http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGQHL0t_uyU
12		Pink Floyd The Wall (1979) November 30, 1979 9/10 #9 Prog readers' poll. A concept album with a discernable concept? Check. A progressive rock album with catchy hits? Check. A winning combination. A highlight: Run like Hell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySO-gryuO-c
13		Midnight Oil Red Sails in the Sunset (1984) October 1984 9/10 Another unconventional pick by me. Tracks like "Harrisburg" and "Sleep" would be standouts and fit in well with the sounds of albums by King Crimson, Pink Floyd or Genesis...for starters. A highlight (would post up more, but only live performances seem available): Jimmy Sharman's boxers (live) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0OPPUGJAj4
14		Coldseed Completion Makes the Tragedy (2006) June 30, 2006 9/10 If being 'progressive' is mixing up your sounds, this heavy metal album has that quality. The trippy bonus track "Strike the nerve" is the most experimental track on the album. A highlight: Strike the nerve http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDtNflgLixI
15		Radio Birdman Radios Appear (1977) July 1977 9/10 Australian punk band, with jazzy leanings on tracks like "Man with golden helmet" and "Love kills".
16		Frank Zappa Hot Rats (1969) October 10, 1969 Easy listening...cheesy listening, jazzy, funky. Best track: Willie the pimp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgReuKYsnG0
17		King Crimson Islands (1971) December 1971 9/10 Bumped up my score of 8.75/10 on first listen. Mixes classical, avant-garde and raucous music to jazzy style on the record and within one song too. Best track is "Formentera lady". I've got the 40th anniversary edition of this album and a couple of the bonus tracks are notable too, like "Islands" and and "A peacemaking stint unrolls".
18		Pink Floyd The Dark Side of the Moon (1973) March 24, 1973 8.75/10 Pink Floyd have released prettier songs on earlier albums but despite that lack of songs that really grab me as much as those, this album really gels as an album experience...more so than those earlier albums which had songs that I liked better. That being said...I suppose that the best song off this album is: Us and them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJJJ7ec1eAo
19		Frank Zappa Cruising With Ruben & the Jets (1968) November 1968 8.75/10 To get the album in its original form you need to buy "Greasy love songs" on cd...cds out now with the original title are actually altered from the original with some new instrumental parts recorded. Anyway, whilst Zappa is labelled a progressive rock musician, this album is an earnest homage to do-wop music of the 1950s.
20		Frank Zappa We're Only in It for the Money (1968) March 1968 8.75/10 No doubt a more acceptable pick than my first Zappa listing. Plays like an accessible "Trout mask replica". Highlight: Mom & dad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq7QL8fYBkc
21		The Clash London Calling (1979) December 14, 1979 8.75/10 Not as arty as "Combat rock" but slightly shades it overall.
22		Wire 154 (1979) September 23, 1979 8.75/10 Their 3rd album and their first to have no traces of punk. Art rock territory. Highlight: The 15th http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV9MIQGgTEo
23		Wire Pink Flag (1977) December 1977 8.7/10 Debut album. Lot of variety to it. Literate post-punk territory, musically speaking. Highlight: Three girl rhumba http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QykauA8p14
24		The Clash Combat Rock (1982) May 14, 1982 8.5+/10 Has art rock elements to it, which is why I'm putting it here. Has a variety of moods to it. Relevant songs "Ghetto defendant", "Sean Flynn" and "Straight to Hell".
25		Jimi Hendrix Are You Experienced? (1967) August 23, 1967 8.5/10 A terrific debut for Hendrix.

 And the second page:

	Frank Zappa Freak Out! (1966) June 27, 1966 8.5/10 Good debut by Zappa. Poppy and experimental...jazzy at times too. Highlight: Help, I'm a rock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhWv3Db2aas
27		Black Sabbath Master of Reality (1971) July 21, 1971 8.5/10 Jaw dropping tracks are "Embryo" and "Orchid". Both instrumentals, and the first features orchestral instruments. Chuck them on a lot of Genesis, Pink Floyd or King Crimson albums and they'd be the standouts!
28		Wire Chairs Missing (1978) October 1978 8.5/10 A variety of sounds to it and a bit experimental. Post punk territory. Less punk than their debut but not as art rock as their following album, "154". Highlight: I am the fly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnIXXe83fe4
29		Pink Floyd Meddle (1971) October 30, 1971 8.25/10 #38 Prog readers' poll. Pleasant, mellow, agreeable Pink Floyd take on US genres...wasn't so keen on The Rolling Stones' "Let it bleed" when they did the same thing. Lost classic in "One of these days". "Fearless" isn't too bad either. Highlight: One of these days http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLMYwT3taAI
30		Genesis Selling England by the Pound (1973) November 1973 8.25/10 #1 on Prog magazine's readers' poll. Bumped up my score from 4/5 on first listen. Has some exquisite melodies on the strings at times but I feel that the lyrics let the music down at times. Has a bit of a Simon and Garfunkel feel to it at times too, but in a proggy way. The second half of the album is better than the first. Best tracks are "After the ordeal", "Aisle of plenty" and "Firth of fifth".
31		Genesis Nursery Cryme (1971) November 12, 1971 8.25/10 #47 Prog readers' poll. On first listen I was leaning towards a score of 8.5/10 but I knocked it down on second listen. Pleasant music which veers towards rock at times but is always melodic. Lyrics are not of the verse/chorus/verse variety.
32		The Saints Prehistoric Sounds (1978) October 1978 8.25/10 Australian punk band. They got progressively less punk after their most seminal punk debut album "(I'm) Stranded". On this, their 3rd album (after their 5/5 2nd up effort "Eternally yours"), they sound like a punk big band and get jazzy at times too.
33		King Crimson Lizard (1970) December 11, 1970 8.25/10 Pleasant, melodic music with a little rock and much jazz.
34		Neutral Milk Hotel In the Aeroplane Over the Sea (1998) February 10, 1998 8.25/10 Ranges in style from acoustic folk to heavy fuzz rock. Tending to view this as more art rock due to the elusive lyrics. Melodic music, without the verse/chorus/verse structure of traditional pop or rock.
35		Pink Floyd Soundtrack From the Film More (1969) 1969 4/5 Mostly instrumental, genteel, but also has their two heaviest rock songs in "The Nile song" and "Ibiza bar".
36		King Crimson Larks' Tongues in Aspic (1973) March 23, 1973 4/5 Pleasant music, jarring rock, classical style music, jazz style music, bongos, kitchen sink... Album is nice and bassy at times and Bill Bruford's drumming can be ferocious at times too.
37		Richard Hell & The Voidoids Destiny Street (1982) July 07, 1982 4/5 Hell normally gets lumped in with the punk movement, but he is more of the arty American kind of punk than the loutish English kind. This is a varied album with some jazzy elements to it...funky at times too.
38		Richard Hell & The Voidoids Blank Generation (1977) 1977 4?/5 Bohemian punk...a bit-avant garde in other words.
39		Genesis Foxtrot (1972) October 1972 7.75/10 #7 Prog readers' poll. On first listen I gave this 7.25 and bumped it up on second listen. It's a concept album...not exactly sure what of though.
40		Pink Floyd The Piper at the Gates of Dawn (1967) August 05, 1967 7.5+/10 A strangely alluring album despite the low score...a real grower. "Flaming" is the lost classic on it...quirkily English...and better than most prog songs from 'real' prog albums. The classic: Flaming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A9iPFF5Yrs
41		Pink Floyd Atom Heart Mother (1970) October 10, 1970 7.5/10 Might have scored this 7.75 or 8/10 if not for the rather naff final track.
42		Jimi Hendrix Axis: Bold as Love (1967) December 01, 1967 7.5/10 Modern sounding but moody, bluesy, experimental album.
43		Genesis Trespass (1970) October 23, 1970 7.5/10 An album to put you to sleep...which isn't necessarily a bad thing. In other words it's very peaceful type music. "The knife" closes the album...verging on heavy metal, it is sure to wake you up!
44		Philip Glass Einstein on the Beach (1979) 1979 7.5/10 Wikipedia lists this album as an opera. I've heard the 2003 version of the original album on Sony Classical (i.e. not the one whose image I've linked to for this entry). Have heard tracks from this opera played on Radio National...not sure, but they may have used the music from the later performance of this opera...I will want to check that out...may like it more than the original version. It has the full opera too...vinyl records of the time couldn't fit the entire opera on the number of discs it ended up being on. I do enjoy many of the "Knee play" tracks on this album. Highlight (especially for the slow part later): Knee play 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK7gg8gbMxE
45		Pink Floyd Ummagumma (1969) October 25, 1969 7.5/10 Interstellar space folk-rock...and plonking noises.
46		Pikelet Pikelet (2007) May 21, 2007 75/100 A better track: They call it love?...Wow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEjH6CxdjnQ
47		Pink Floyd Obscured by Clouds (1972) June 03, 1972 7.25/10 On first listen I was tending to score this 6.5/10 but slightly bumped it up on second listen. Bit of a mixed bag...pleasant tracks to more rock tracks to "meh" easy listening tracks.
48		King Crimson In the Wake of Poseidon (1970) May 15, 1970 3.5/5 Solid, pleasant album. On first listen I gave it 4/5, but on second listen wasn't feeling so generous. Jazzy at times and has an instrumental track on it.
49		Twink Think Pink (1970) 1970 3.5/5 Has the absolute classic song "Ten thousand words in a cardboard box". At times, this odd album sounds like it may have been the soundtrack to some Italian zombie/horror/porno movie or something! The album is innovative in any case for the kinds of lyrics it has (ranging from pagan to psychedelic) to the kind of sounds it utilises...sexual moanings and pained groans in some tracks. The classic Ten thousand words in a cardboard box http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-F7QyeGNSY
50		Pink Floyd A Saucerful of Secrets (1968) June 29, 1968 3.5/5 Mellow 2nd album, with Wright and Waters doing a line in Syd Barrett kind of songs at times. The classic: Remember a day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeCyVmhvN8w

 And the third:

51		Patti Smith Horses (1975) November 8, 1975 3.5/5 A poetic album with disturbing imagery at times. At its least interesting when Patti covers other's material. Best tracks are "Birdland" and "Land".
52		Pikelet Not So Still (2009) [EP] February 2009 EP. 3.5/5 A better track: Accordion to the accordion
53		Vanilla Fudge Vanilla Fudge (1967) 1967 3.5/5 Psychedelic rock weds Church of England & Harlem church music.
54		Mastodon Crack the Skye (2009) March 23, 2009 3.5/5 Highly polished, melodic, mid-tempo metal. Others describe this as a "concept" album. Maybe the lyrics washed over me too much or I couldn't make out the lyrics enough to get this characterisation of the album.
55		Television Marquee Moon (1977) February 8, 1977 3.5/5 Television get described as a punk band. Based on this album, their debut, I don't really see why...it is, however, sophisticated/alternative pop/rock. Arty, not really punk.
56		Frank Zappa Uncle Meat (1969) March 1969 3.5/5 Score knocked down by "Uncle Meat film excerpt Part I", which runs to 37:34 minutes in length. Not sure how close my double cd is to the original release, but a track of this length of on set and off set chit chat is a big self-indulgence. The highlight: Tengo na minchia tanta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEIxfbfJE38
57		Deep Purple Concerto for Group and Orchestra (1969) December 1969 3.5/5 I've got the double cd of this which has some live versions of their better known rock songs on the first cd. The second cd is why I'd list this album here...fuses classic arrangement with rock arrangement. This classical type music comes across as a film score at times. The Third movement (from around 6:25 - 8:10 minutes) and then the introduction to the Encore has something for fans of Deep Purple's drummer, Ian Paice...interesting drumming and extended solos.
58		The Velvet Underground White Light/White Heat (1968) January 30, 1968 6.5/10 Unlike anything else they recorded. Quite experimental. Let down especially by "The gift" which is really like Bob Dylan at his worst...Lou Reed could often surpass Dylan in his word-smithery. Title track is the best...quite catchy for this album.
59		Frank Zappa Lumpy Gravy (1968) May 1968 6.5/10 A wide variety of sounds and experimental. Let down by the annoying Cheech and Chong type voices/chatter in "White ugliness", I think the track is called. The cd does not differentiate tracks, so you only get two songs listed for the entire cd on your lcd display as opposed to the 22 tracks listed on Wikipedia. Sure, all 22 tracks are on the cd, but you can't choose ones you like or avoid ones you dislike with ease. Not that any tracks stand out though...apart from all the wrong reasons.
60		Frank Zappa Absolutely Free (1967) April 1967 3/5 Zappa's humour is more self-indulgent here, which marks it down in my books...how many songs about prunes is too many? However many songs there are about prunes on this album. One is too many. "Plastic people" could have been written about President George W. Bush. It's timeless in that way.
61		Pikelet Pre-Flight Jitters (2008) [EP] February 2008 2.5/5 A bit too experimental and self-indulgent to me. "Bryson" is an okay song.
62		Captain Beefheart Trout Mask Replica (1969) November 1969 2.5/5 Arty, undergraduate, self-indulgent, avant-garde album which is held in the highest esteem by many venerable sources. Best track is "The blimp". "Sugar'n'spikes" is ok as is "Veteran's day poppy". Minor classic: The blimp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW3ZzsP3XPI

I don't want to repost everyhting without the OP's permission, but he did provide an interesting blurb about his picks as well.  I really like the list.  EDIT: If Dean's hyperlink worked for you then i can delete this list.  I thought you might have had a problem accessing rateyourmusic (worked for me just copying and pasting the address in my browser)


Edited by Logan - April 15 2011 at 16:24

Why are some albums rated out of 5, some out of 10 and some out of 100? This isn't rym system which is x/5 in half steps.

The list is controversial but not outright dubious and, whether it is by accident or intention, I commend his willingness to pick albums that are not called prog because that reflects that he's at least prepared to engage with the music and deduce whether or not he feels it is prog.  With that said, let's not forget the debate really was more over his referring to the period between 1969-1976 as The Musical Dead Zone and coming up with mostly weak arguments to defend it.  Perhaps, things wouldn't have gotten out of hand in the thread without the rather unconvincing, and unnecessary, justification of his tastes in the OP.