Thoughts on my taste?
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Printed Date: November 24 2024 at 21:48
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Topic: Thoughts on my taste?
Posted By: dfle3
Subject: Thoughts on my taste?
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:00
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I've only recently been exploring Prog rock...it had been my impression that what I considered to be The Dead Zone in music - from about a year or so before The Beatles broke up to the rise of groups like ABBA - coincided with the Prog moment in music. So, basically 'forced' myself to check out prog acts. Generally found it easy listening without having true classics as such...King Crimson's "The court of the Crimson King" title track being an exception. Anyway I've been compiling a list of the prog albums that I've heard and rating them. Curious as to what you make of my tastes, if you identify yourself as a 'real' Prog fan. Here's my list: http://rateyourmusic.com/list/dfle3/progressive_art_experimental_rock_albums_rated___ I did have that the impression that many of my selections might not be considered 'real' prog albums...but browsing a thread here I see that I may not be so 'out there' as I thought I was being...what, with the Black Sabbath albums...and you guys are counting Metallica too? I was just thinking of having "...and justice for all" in my list, but you guys seem to go further. Anyway, appreciate any thoughts you have on my list...hopefully the link works! |
Replies:
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:34
Your list is interesting. It's rather like you took a shotgun and aimed at a barn door, but you ended up killing a cow in the neighbor's pasture. That you considered the time period between The Beatles and ABBA (ABBA?) to be a musical "Dead Zone", and that you had to literally force yourself to listen to prog acts makes me wonder why you bothered at all, particularly considering that 9 of the top 10 albums on your list were never really considered progressive, or whatever hybrid categorization you were going for. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
dfle3 wrote:Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:35
| Seems like a bit of inverted snobbery at work here; so not very hopeful about what I will find on your list; but will check it out and report back. |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:39
| Your top ten is barely prog, therefore I smell a troll. |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:44
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Well, I'll admit to having mainstream tastes...I've gone out of my way to explore certain genres and acts that were out of my comfort zone...be it Black Sabbath, or Cream or early punk etc. I do plan on checking out more prog...give Yes and ELP a burl. However, in my defence, I did see many acts or albums which I included in my list appear in another thread here, concerning the most highly regarded prog albums based on how people voted for them or something.. Have found some gems in my explorations even for albums that I don't rate highly. E.g. for punk, if I hadn't of taken a punt, I wouldn't have discovered Stiff Little Fingers great debut album. And even though I'm not a big fan of thrash metal, I think Metallica has some absolute classics like "Fade to black" or "Welcome home". That's basically my issue re prog music...it doesn't really get FM play here in Australia and I think that's because the music isn't really memorable or catchy. Having said that, I think songs like "The court of the Crimson King" deserves to be a classic rock staple, and I'm very partial to Floyd songs like "Remember a day" and "Flaming". I've given many 'real' prog albums on my list a good score, but I'm not sure that most of them have truly memorable or 'killer' songs...to my tastes at least. That's the reason I find that period in music in a Dead Zone. |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:54
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In that other thread I mention here, here are some of the albums in my list which makes this forum's list: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46093 356 Wheels of Fire Cream 384 The Velvet Underground and Nico The Velvet Underground #266 Jimi Hendrix Experience – Axis: Bold as Love Okay, some of yous have criticised my list...but gee even I don't consider some songs in your forum's list to be prog! E.g. how on Earth is this prog? #248 Red Hot Chili Peppers – Blood Sugar Sex Magik That's just so completely bizarre! Back to your forum's list: #193 The Beatles – Magical Mystery Tour (#1 on MY list) #153 Jimi Hendrix Experience – Electric Ladyland #149 Neutral Milk Hotel – In the Aeroplane Over the Sea Personally, I haven't counted Led Zeppelin in my own list...yous have: #110 Led Zeppelin – Houses of the Holy To me, I don't find Led Zeppelin that progressive...Black Sabbath I do. Basically, I don't see how you can criticise MY list when this forum has MANY of the SAME albums in its list as I do! And SOME totally bizarre selections that I wouldn't consider in a list like mine. Weird. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:55
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I'm finding it impossible to understand why anyone would think 1969 to 1976 is "The Dead Zone" of music ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 01:58
Oh dear. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:00
That is people's favorite albums overall, not favorite prog albums. Also, only a relatively small number of currently activemembers participated in that because it was 3 years ago and a tremendous hassle. Look at the PA top 100 and top from each genre for a more representative list, although that still varies considerably from many members. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:02
| Henry, can you give a link to the list you mention? I'm assuming that there are a lot of such lists on this site...I'll check it out some time when I have time. Thanks. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:11
http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?salbumtypes=1#list" rel="nofollow - It's right on the front page... No Red Hot Chili Peppers here. ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:24
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Thanks. You're assuming that I came in through the front door! Actually,
looked on the home page and saw the list to the right, which scrolls
down...not sure how you linked to it...I didn't see anything stand out
for me on the home page in order to do that. Hmm...noticed Thick As A
Brick is #1...not a fan of that song on their compilation, and the album
is just basically one long song, yeah? Sort of sounds like a joke on
Tull's behalf...like you'd have to be thick as a brick to buy it?
Anyway, I'm a big fan of "Living in the past". Is the album that that
song comes off of the same quality as that song? Did notice Ommadawn in
the list too...I love Incantations...you know if the rest of the album
is of that quality. What's your top 10 prog albums? For the albums in my list which you think are legitimate, do you think I got the order mostly right or mostly wrong? |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:27
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One other thing...I've heard "Kind of blue" but never really thought of it as 'progressive'...so I'd have a question mark on that album on this forum's list too. Is this forum part of a publication or something? How big/mainstream is it? Just curious. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:28
Yes, that was precisely my thought. I could rattle off many releases from that time period that even someone that was tone deaf would consider the greatest rock albums of all time, and I'm not merely referring to the best progressive selections. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:37
Miles Davis is included for his fusion work, but PA's policy has always been to includes entire discographies. Per album genre tagging would be a herculean endeavor at this point, and individual album tags that would exclude them from the top lists would be the only solution. So we're stuck with this situation because Kind of Blue is a good album so people will rate it highly, even though it is not rock. This also happens on a smaller scale with some of the subgenres.
Well we're the top hit for Progressive Rock on Google after Wikipedia. I'm not sure how much the rest of the internet cares about us, most music forums are dire and I avoid them.
I hate music, you don't want to hear my opinion.
 ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 02:48
Welcome to this site and have a great time exploring progressive rock to vitalize your dead zone!  http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&syears=1976&syears=1975&syears=1974&syears=1973&syears=1972&syears=1971&syears=1970&syears=1969&scountries=&sminratings=0&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=50&x=56&y=5#list" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/top-prog-albums.asp?ssubgenres=&salbumtypes=1&syears=1976&syears=1975&syears=1974&syears=1973&syears=1972&syears=1971&syears=1970&syears=1969&scountries=&sminratings=0&smaxratings=0&sminavgratings=0&smaxresults=50&x=56&y=5#list (Edit: changed it to the years 1969-76 and limited to 50 entries to make it not too much.) |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:01
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re comments like: "I'm finding it impossible to understand why anyone would think 1969 to 1976 is "The Dead Zone" of music" and "Yes, that was precisely my thought. I could rattle off many
releases from that time period that even someone that was tone
deaf would consider the greatest rock albums of all time, and I'm not
merely referring to the best progressive selections" Just the fact that there's so few memorable songs...like I said I LOVE "The court of the Crimson King" (song), but there's really not a whole stack of songs I feel that strongly in 'real' prog music...a band like Pink Floyd are way more mainstream than King Crimson and I would LOVE to hear songs like "Flaming" and "Remember a day" on the radio. That you don't suggests that the music is not mainstream nor killer/memorable. A lot of the 'real' prog albums I've heard are nice enough...easy listening to my way of thinking, but they don't really contain songs that you feel mainstream FM stations SHOULD be playing. I LOVE Zappa's "Help, I'm a rock" but I get why it doesn't get played on mainstream FM radio. I'm sure that there are heaps of fans of death metal who think that certain bands or songs are absolute greats, but most people would not sure that view...so, for the guys who think that what I term the Dead Zone of music is wrong, are there songs that you REALLY believe SHOULD be played from them because they just deserve to be heard? And if you think that "Thick as a brick" deserves to be heard on the radio, then I think we are coming from completely different positions...it might be appropriate on a station devoted to prog rock, but the kind of songs I love are the kind of songs that I think SHOULD be played on mainstream FM stations...personally, I can't understand how "The court of the Crimson King" is NOT played there...I feel robbed...can't really say I feel that way for most prog music...is pleasantly easy listening, but nothing more. |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:11
| Stop, your trolling is painfully bad. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:18
The years from 1969 to 1976 have some of the highest concentrations of critically acclaimed and popular rock music of all time, it's impossible to believe you are being sincere when you say things like this. Nobody cares about the radio. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:18
They might become more memorable if you listen a few more times. Prog songs can be incredibly catchy and fulfilling once you take the time.
Not the point. And if they are anything but memorable (complex, inaccessible?) a lot of the time for you, how could it be easy listening? ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:35
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re: "The years from 1969 to 1976 have some of the highest concentrations of critically acclaimed and popular rock music of all time, it's impossible to believe you are being sincere when you say things like this" and: "Nobody cares about the radio. ". I live in Australia. I listen mainly to the stations that play classic rock/hits...some sort of "classic...." format. Not sure how to convince you that I've NEVER heard King Crimson played on these stations. or ELP...MAYBE one station MIGHT play Fanfare...can't vouch for it. Yes never get played, unless it's "Owner of a lonely heart". Sure, an album can be critically acclaimed...but popular? I can only speak for Australian commercial FM stations...if this prog moment in music history was popular, you'd think it would get played, yeah? Over here, Dark Side is the earliest Floyd music you'll hear. Commercial FM music here is a reflection on what is popular. Going on that, Prog is just not popular...Floyd is pretty much the exception to that rule...but, like I've said, they're more accessible and mainstream. Bands like Rush are unplayed here too. You just don't hear these acts...whether you find me impossible to believe, that's another matter. I'd find it hard to believe that the UK or US would have much prog rock played on commercial FM radio...MAYBE acts like Rush are more mainstream in the US? Here they have virtually no presence...very underground. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- re "They might become more memorable if you listen a few more times. Prog songs can be incredibly catchy and fulfilling once you take the time" and "Not the point. And if they are anything but memorable (complex, inaccessible?) a lot of the time for you, how could it be easy listening?". A track like "The court of the Crimson King" I liked straight off but after a few listens considered it a classic. Meddle does a have a bit of a lost classic on it, I think...something that SHOULD get aired on commercial FM radio...but, the fact I can't remember it's title speaks of how 'memorable' it is....I have no trouble remembering how good Floyd songs like "Flaming" and "Remember a day" are...neither of which gets played over here in Australia. I see no contradiction in an uncatchy song being unmemorable...the arrangements are easy on the ear...it's the difference between a catchy easy listening song and a forgettable easy listening song. I remember finding Genesis' debut my favourite, but I don't remember any specific songs off it though. I don't usually think of the music as being "complex" or whatnot...I'll just note that it lacks a pretty melody or lick or hook. Gabriel's lyrics could be very unpoppy - i.e. no verse/chorus/verse structure) but he sings it in an easy listening way nonetheless. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:43
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Protip: 70's prog, outside of classic hits/singles, rarely gets played on radio anywhere these days, although I did hear Watcher of The Skies being played in a mall here (canberra) a few weeks ago. Radio is a reflection of what is popular at the time of broadcast, and not too many kids these days are running out to grab Close To The Edge or ITCOTCK like they were in the 70's. You know this. ------------- 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:43
Not really.
I'm not arguing that (although many of the big acts have sold millions of copies and yes Rush gets airplay in the US), and I don't even care if you don't like prog very much because your troll-worthy opinion is that it's too pleasant and easy listening and From Genesis to Revelation is your favorite Genesis album. The only thing I am trying to say is that it is an objective fact that there was an enormous number of well regarded and popular albums released in that time period that are not prog. I'm not making a list because I've already wasted enough time on this, but if you ever truly believed that 1969 to 1976 is The Dead Zone of music that is an opinion that can only be born of ignorance, not preference. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 04:08
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Your opinion that "Not really" as far as commercial airplay is an
indicator of popularity carries absolutely no weight with me at all. Compare ratings of popular classic rock stations with ones that play a lot of prog music. I'll take a wild guess that the classic rock stations/programmes greatly outrate the prog stations/programmes. You don't think so? If you say so. You're "Not really" comment isn't winning me over. Pithy, but weightless point of view. re my "Troll worthy opinion"...yuh...anyone who disagrees with you must be a troll. Whatever dude. Do I care that you don't agree with me that Genesis' debut is their best? No. But hey, I have to bow down to you oh so superior opinion right? Not really. And I'm saying that I don't rate prog that highly because it doesn't have many memorable/killer tunes. And since I've listened to a fair bit of prog music recently, I think my view is valid...I had the Dead Zone view before I listened to prog albums, but it's a fair characterisation of the genre as far as radio worthy songs go. I'm assuming that you bag me because I disagree with you. Does it bother me that our views don't co-incide? Not really. But I don't go around calling you a troll. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- progkidjoel re
Have to disagree with you if you mean that classic format radio stations don't play what was popular at the time...the reason why you hear Bon Jovi a lot on these stations is because people liked those songs THEN and NOW. So, the fact that no one plays prog songs now is a reflection that those songs aren't popular NOW NOR THEN. So, it's not a case of kids not buying CTTE or ITCOTCK now...it's a case that not enough people bought these albums THEN. There is NO demand for songs off these albums being played...it's just the mainstream DSOTM which gets played in place of 'real' prog rock. I have no idea about Watcher of The Skies...whoever sung that should count themselves lucky to be heard by you...are you arguing that that song is popular NOW? It's the critically acclaimed AND popularly acclaimed music that gets played now...which is why we get no prog rock on the radio. It's that simple.And I've already said that there is SOME prog rock which I think is good enough to get played nowadays...just not as much as fans of the genre would like to believe. |
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 04:43
 Sorry, people on this forum will laugh at you if you go on posting like this. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 06:48
It is hard to believe that you'd be blissfully unaware of the changes that swept through the music industry at the end of the 70s, which has a lot to do with some of the popular stuff of the time not being popular today. That does not mean it was not popular then or does not reflect the popular music of the time.
Ok, I'll give you an example and from outside prog rock. My aunt has lived in America for 25 years and she is not aware of many of Stevie Wonder's songs from the 70s because she hasn't heard them on the radio. Maybe they do get played on the radio there, I wouldn't know, but not as much as his 80s hits. Does that mean albums like Innervisions were not popular at the time of their release? Of course not. But reasoning with someone who believes that what is played on the radio necessarily reflects what is good enough to be is difficult.  |
Posted By: ten years after
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 07:01
| I suggest that people stop feeding the troll |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 08:26
 ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 08:48
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If I was trolling this subject I'd have been banned already. Such a weak troll. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 08:50
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Marquee Moon deserves 5 stars... ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 09:01
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Holy mother of Toby Driver, I don't think I've ever seen an amount of derp so big
Ditto. And most of us don't give a rat's ass if the band is popular or not; we care about the music. Justin Bieber gets airplay, yet Kayo Dot doesn't.
------------- 
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 09:25
Again, this incessant mention of music that is "not mainstream nor killer/memorable". What exactly do you mean?
I noticed you had the band Television on your list. That you enjoy punk elevator muzak tells me all I need to know about your "tastes". But I suppose Television did have some "killer" songs because the composer committed suicide after playing them too long. I suppose it was much like Monty Python's "world's deadliest joke".
Then you are the problem, and the solution is not to listen to you or FM radio.
Yes, we are coming from different positions. And our viewpoints are irreconcilable. I have FM radios in my cars that I use to get the weather, traffic updates and sports news. I certainly don't use it to listen to the tripe that is played on your precious "mainstream" stations. In any case, FM radio is virtually a dead letter. With the advent of CDs and MP3 players, only the truly insipid would listen to FM radio for musical content -- in any genre. Why would anyone with any sense listen to a medium that dictates what you listen to, interspersed with inane commercials?
Enjoy your trolling trip. Come back when you have something worthwhile to offer. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 09:58
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dfle3 - the reason you are getting accused of trolling is because you came to a forum for progressive rock fans, and essentially said, "your music is easy listening and it's not popular because it's not good." Of course that's going to raise eyebrows. It also gives off the impression you haven't listened to much prog music, because the genre is well known for being more challenging than what is played on the radio, and requiring multiple listens to truly uncover. If you are serious about trying to figure out what progressive rock is all about, these tips might be useful: 1) Not a lot of prog is played on the radio, as you know, and not a lot of prog fans care a lot. So don't listen to prog expecting to hear a radio hit. 2) A lot of prog music sounds much better as albums then as individual songs. So try giving a full album a few spins before coming to a conclusion. 3) A lot of what is on your list is not considered prog. Even that Genesis album you have in your #10 slot is sort of borderline ... the bands widely acknowledged + celebrated "prog" period actually runs from their next album, Trespass, until ... well, that depends on who you ask, but at the very earliest, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. If you really want to get a feel for what prog is, do what has been recommended: listen to the albums in the top 10 list. Those are what are widely regarded as the classics of progressive rock. It is a wildly disparate genre with a lot of bands that sound nothing alike. Rush is closer to Hard Rock while The Enid is closer to classical; Karda Estra has elements of new age, while Universe Zero has elements of chamber music. Psyche, Jazz, Blues, World Music, and many other genres of music have all been incorporated into one prog bands sound or another. There's even a band called Magma famous for not inventing only a new genre (called Zeuhl), but a new language (where the word Zeuhl came from)! Their music, to my ears, is like a combination of jazz, opera, and rock. It is not precisely "easy listening" If you want a quick overview of prog rock, here are ten songs ... rather than go for the most famous, I tried to go for the most varied, using as many famous tracks as I could. A couple modern bands: Happy listening!
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Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 10:01
| PS. Pro tip: hit play on all 10 at the same time for some madness. |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 10:09
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Those are all awful songs, Gazzardian. Except maybe for Magma and Zappa. -------------
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Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 10:11
XD It's all a matter of taste, my friend. As an ironic twist, the Zappa one is my least favorite off that list too 
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 10:17
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The UZ one isn't bad either. -------------
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 10:35
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I wonder why this guy thinks we give a toss for whats on the radio? And why he seems to be obsessed by it? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 11:04
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That sig is too tall, Snow Dog. -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 13:40
| Ian's signature image reminde me of Udu Wudu's cover. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 13:55
^
I would rather think about Gong's 'You'
 ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 14:34
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dfle3, you wrote: I have no idea about Watcher of The Skies...whoever sung that should count themselves lucky to be heard by you...are you arguing that that song is popular NOW? If you don’t know Watcher of the skies, how come you could write this about Foxtrot: 7.75/10 #7 Prog readers' poll. On first listen I gave this 7.25 and bumped it up on second listen. It's a concept album...not exactly sure what of though. It seems the problem is that you listen to an album only twice before you rate it. That’s also why Magical Mystery Tour is your favourite here – it’s full of hits you’ve heard over and over again (still an excellent album, though). ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 01:16
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When I've got more time I'll respond to the small number of intelligent posts here (really, I have no time for people who think anyone who disagrees with them is a troll...such an idiotic viewpoint)...but I'll just respond to one of the less intelligent comments here: "I noticed you had the band Television on your list. That you enjoy punk elevator muzak tells me all I need to know about your "tastes". But I suppose Television did have some "killer" songs because the composer committed suicide after playing them too long. I suppose it was much like Monty Python's "world's deadliest joke". Firstly, Television is in my list because my entire list is of albums that I have listened to. If I've listened to an album and it fits on my list, I'll list it. Simple. If you'd actually checked my score for that Television album, you'll notice that I didn't score it that highly nor be very positive towards it in my brief comment for it. And, irony of ironies, you call Television "punk elevator muzak"...presumably punk elevator muzak is oh so inferior to prog elevator muzak? From memory, I scored Marquee Moon similar to Genesis' Trespass...i.e. not the best on my list and not the worst on my list...just rather forgettable, that's all. I'll get back tomorrow, hopefully, for the small number of people who don't call someone who disagrees with them troll...I've noticed that the people who say that don't really have anything much else to say...nothing intelligent anyway. P.S. and what makes the person here who went out of their way to call someone's suggestions here terrible - re what prog to listen to - as not a troll? It's just bizarre. It seems that here that if you disagree with someone's tastes that makes you a troll. P.P.S. I still think it's ridiculous that a jazz album is in this forum's top 100 prog albums. Bizarre.
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Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 01:18
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Refugee...re: "If you don’t know Watcher of the skies, how come you could write this about Foxtrot" This relates to my point about me finding prog amiable without being memorable. My score reflects that the album is a nice listen, but that I didn't know that the song mentioned was off of it confirms my point that the album does not have memorable songs. And why is my reply in italics? And how do I stop it being so? Til tomorrow.
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Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 01:26
I feel like the point that most people here are trying to make is that prog is not necessarily meant to be memorable after the first listen. It's not meant to have immediately memorizable hooks, if it did it would be pop. That's the same reason prog doesn't get radio play; it's not about the immediate gratification, it's about deeper enjoyment. One wouldn't expect a classical composition to be immediately memorable after the first listen; prog is the same way. Also, re: the italics... there's a button right there at the top of the reply box... ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 01:27
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 01:38
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You admit to having mainstream tastes...."forced" yourself to listen to prog and consider the golden age of prog a dead zone in music? This is a progressive rock/music site, why are you here? The interesting title you chose for this thread adds some fuel to the fire. If you are not a troll, then you are a very confused person! |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 04:48
First, I don't think you're a troll. You just don't seem to get that some musicians are artists, and not at all trying to create something catchy enough to get airplay on FM stations in Australia. You're also confusing instantly satisfying with memorable. Who knows, if you gave one of your progalbums a third and even a fourth spin, maybe your favorite track would change from Flaming to Interstallar Overdrive? Maybe you'll grow tired of Genesis naive orchestral pop-debut, and discover that Supper's Ready has more to offer in the long run? Surely you've outgrown some music you used to love as a kid? Its a similar thing.
I'm sorry but, some of what you write on your RYM-list is pure comedy gold. Especially these two: http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/the_beatles/magical_mystery_tour/" rel="nofollow - Magical Mystery Tour (1967)5/5 This album neither appears in Prog magazine's readers poll nor Wikipedia with the label "progressive". It's probably not considered 'real' prog music, but it has lots of orchestral arrangements of songs...so I'll just plead ignorance of the genre and go with this as my #1. Many 'legitimate' prog acts have orchestral arrangements for their albums...so why doesn't this album count? http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/the_velvet_underground/the_velvet_underground_and_nico/" rel="nofollow - The Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) 9.5/10 Easy listening music but with lyrically challenging themes for the day. Genesis have made easy listening albums with less challenging lyrics but still get labelled "progressive"...why not this album? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 05:18
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^Yeah..he's a laugh a minute. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:15
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Please, try to be a little bit polite. This is obviously not a troll. At least he deserves some credit for trying to find out what this obscure phenomenon is all about. And remember: Aller Anfang ist Schwer. Maybe, because of the reference to Watcher of the Skies, he’s listening to Foxtrot again right now.
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:18
Nope. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 14:17
Most people agree that flogging a horse is not the right way to train it. Some of the reactions here only serve to confirm his prejudices about prog fans – that we are arrogant elitists (and if he didn’t think so from the start, he probably does now). And, frankly, Ian, we are old enough to know better, aren’t we? I found my way to prog through ABBA(!), ELO, 10cc and Supertramp. Maybe this man has tried to run before he could walk but if we don’t scare him off, he might see (or rather hear) the beauty of the music we love. [Admittedly written after a few glasses of wine] ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 15:57
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ADMIN NOTE.
Looks like someone got off on the wrong foot here and has made a few erronious assumptions that have upset and angered just about everyone present.
Perhaps education is better than admonishment.
So firstly, welcome to the PA forum Mr "Not Given", I'm Dean - I see you've already met a lot of the other misfits and characters around here. Please avoid upsetting them and calling them names until you know them better.
Secondly - when replying to posts use the "Quote" button, it makes life so much easier, and that means you don;t have to use the itallic BBcode at all (BBcodes are cool, they are what "powers" the text formatting in posts) :
 Thirdly, a "Troll" is not someone who disagrees - a "Troll" is someone who deliberately posts something inflammatory to piss people off. Now, it is clear that a few people are pissed, whether that is deliberate on your part is something we cannot say for sure. If you continue on this tack you've been following then I'll say yes you are; if you relax, sit back and re-think what you are saying, I'll say it was all a big misunderstanding.
Your choice mate. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 16:07
I guess your right, I was just being an arse.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:01
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Okay...back again... Firstly, this thread was asking about comments on my list...my list was initially intended as my ratings of prog albums but I pretty much decided to add art rock type albums to my list right away. If you want to comment on my list great...just don't prattle on about it not being 'real' prog...I've already said that my list is broader than that...just comment on the stuff that you think IS prog...I dunno, if you can't agree with my scores for albums, just maybe comment on whether you think my order of albums within or between groups is good or bad or whatever. Try not to get hung up over one album...I know you'll feel the temptation to. Also curious, if I've expressed doubt in my own list as to how prog an album is, give your opinion...would you count the album in my list as prog or whatnot or not? As for the 'spirit' of this forum...I'll engage with it on your own terms here... TheGazzardian...is your list of You Tubes kind of like "Ten prog songs to change your life"? How much value should I place on it? I mean, since this forum has a lot of grand poo-bars, I'd be wanting such a list to come from the Grande Poo-Bar, yeah? BUT...Polo says...quothe... " Those are all awful songs, Gazzardian". So, by the conduct/philosophy of this forum, you must be trolling, yeah? Or maybe it's Polo? Honestly, I don't know WHO to believe!! Can you maybe get your people to get the Grande Poo-Bar to give their top 10 prog tracks? Is it the guy who says anyone who disagrees with their view is a troll? From my point of view someone must have a REALLY WORTHLESS opinion if they have to have that rider...the one which says..."These are the greatest prog songs of all time...and anyone who disagrees with me is a troll".' Speaking of trolls, I think I had a "Eureka!" moment last night on trolls...people who call me that bug me...here's my insight...people who bandy the term "troll" are, in fact, morons. They're morons because their tiny little minds can't conceive that anyone who disagrees with them could in fact be genuine...like...dude...how could you say that a 45 minuted drum solo is not THE greatest song EVAH? Anyway, TheGazzardian, as for your list of ten songs, I'm only familiar with the Zappa song...I had to check my notes on that album...the only song that I singled out as being particularly likeable was "Willie the pimp". However, I still rate the album highly...probably my pick as or around the best Zappa album. I gave it 9/10 and will put it in my list some time. RogerThat states that: " Does that mean albums like Innervisions were not popular at the time of their release? Of course not". I don't know about this album...if songs off it don't get played now on the radio, maybe that suggests that the album isn't a true classic? I mean, if it's forgotten, maybe there is a good reason for that? refugee writes: "It seems the problem is that you listen to an album only twice before you rate it. That’s also why Magical Mystery Tour is your favourite here – it’s full of hits you’ve heard over and over again (still an excellent album, though)." Okay, so what arbitrary number of listens would suit you? Just a rhetorical question as I'm not really interested in your answer...which would be just as arbitrary as my reviewing practice...I give albums a second chance. If I gave them a dozen chances before I reviewed I could get sick of them! Interesting last comment too...you're saying that Magical Mystery Tour is an excellent album...despite having hits...hmm. What am I meant to make of that? Am I meant to think "Gee, you are soo broadminded!"? Or, "Wow! You are SO open minded!"? I take it I am meant to prefer albums without hits or songs that I repeatedly want to listen to?...um...isn't that, like, you know, the definition of a bad album? VanVanVan says: "I feel like the point that most people here are trying to make is that prog is not necessarily meant to be memorable after the first listen. It's not meant to have immediately memorizable hooks, if it did it would be pop." ...righto...but "The court of the Crimson King" IS memorable first listen with immediately memorisable hooks...and it's poppy. So...not prog then? Refugee's line holds? I mean, it's a good album, despite the title track? And Dark Side Of The Moon...not real prog? The grand poo-bar here said: "The years from 1969 to 1976 have some of the highest concentrations of critically acclaimed and popular rock music of all time". I had a look at Rolling Stones list of the 500 greatest albums of all time...counts as critically acclaimed, yeah? "Thick as a brick" isn't on that list, I don't believe...it's number 1 here. Aqualung made the list. Genesis and King Crimson don't make the list. "Kind of blue" is #12, I believe...but that's a jazz album. No Yes. No ELP. Pink Floyd make the list three times. The "criticallly acclaimed" part of their equation doesn't seem to be holding up. What? These albums sold millions, thus confirming the second part of the equation? Well, I know that DSOTM did. More from VanVanVan: "That's the same reason prog doesn't get radio play; it's not about the immediate gratification, it's about deeper enjoyment. One wouldn't expect a classical composition to be immediately memorable after the first listen; prog is the same way." Ah, so prog is "deeper"...not really amiably pleasant easy listening music then? If you say so. Classical music not immediately memorable first listen? Really? Ludwig Van's 5th and 9th not immediately memorable? Ok. I'll take your word for it. But I would have thought they were regarded as "classics". And other Beethoven works aren't considered classics because...they're just not that memorable? Saperlipopette! writes: "Maybe you'll grow tired of Genesis naive orchestral pop-debut" ...that would be your opinion, yeah? When King Crimson sings "I talk to the wind"...that is some kind of super advanced perspective, right? Sort of like he occupies the same intellectual space as Prince Charles, yeah? Charles talks to the trees, yeah? Sequel for King Crimson? Talking to trees? And you have done absolutely no analysis on why you think my comments are funny for some albums in my list...in one of them I ask a philosophical question...whilst you...make snobbish comments about Genesis' debut...as if you are some sort of being from a higher plane...would we all be able to attain your lofty heights! Okay, general chit-chat...over "Kind of blue" being in this forum's top 100 prog albums...it seems that the grande poo-bar here says that Miles Davis did prog music. I'm happy to take their word for it. It seems we both agree that KoB is NOT prog. Are too many idiots constantly voting for it here and it's too much of a hassle to not count it? I mean, you do want to promote PROG, yeah? ...so...why are you promoting jazz? Are there not 100 prog albums? Are there not 100 decent prog albums, so you have to pad out your list with jazz albums? Honestly, I can't do all of your work for you...I haven't had heard most of your top 100 list...at least 1% of the albums doesn't belong on such a list...have you thought about fixing your list so that it's actually prog music? Dean...on the page I write this on now, I see no icon for "quote". When I did the other day and I highlighted text, everything I wrote after that was in the same form as the highlighted text. It's annoying...I'm not an icon geek or anything...just be good to not have your system assume I want to write in a certain style merely because I quoted something...issue is one of user friendliness. As for narkiness on this board...hey, quit calling me a troll just because I disagree with yous...that's my main gripe. And it's not flattering to my view of yous if you come across as pseudo dwellers of a higher astral plane because you don't share my taste. I don't buy it...the bit about yous being super intelligent beings from a higher plane. Believe it or not, prog artists want to make money. Pink Floyd's Dave Gilmour characterised the early Floyd sound as "Plonking noises"...but for the dwellers of a higher astral plane here, I suppose there is untold depth to those plonking noises that you have to 'evolve' to notice? Discussion without the attitude would be appreciated...if I think that your taste in music sucks, I won't try and pretend it's because you're not smart...coz, you know, Trespass works incredibly well as a soporofic. Did I miss anything? file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5Cpublic%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml" rel="nofollow - |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:08
| Eh, at least Islands, Ummagumma and Meddle are on your list |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:13
| This is gold. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:15
Delicious |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:29
One more time, because I'm an idiot.
5-7 is the generally accepted number around here.
I'm flattered you appear to think I have a position of authority. First of all, nobody in the entire world still cares about Rolling Stone, and even if they did, one magazine's best 500 albums of all time is not remotely a large enough sample for "critically acclaimed". Secondly, I am not, and never have been, talking about prog! I am talking about all rock music from that period, and if you think it was an unproductive time for music you don't know anything about the music of the period. You know Led Zeppelin, Paul McCartney, Santana, Johnny Cash, The Rolling Stones, Janis Joplin, John Lennon, Neil Young, Elton John, Chicago, Cat Stevens, The Allman Brothers, Eric Clapton, The Beach Boys, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Jefferson Starship, BTO, and I don't feel like typing any more. Please at least acknowledge what it is I am actually saying.
You completely missed the point of my post and it's too late for me to re-explain it, try again.
The quote button. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:29
| Oh Henry |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:34
Hey, I'm just copying from Wikipedia. Somebody else can deal with the blatantly attention-seeking insults of prog and its fans on a prog website. Trying to get the conversation to be what I'm actually talking about does not count as feeding the troll.  ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:36
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Even though it is quoted later (I have no problem with that) I'm going to remove this message. It was meant to be funny but maybe it was misjudged by me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:39
? Come on, have some respect for the wall of text, it's a PA tradition. ;-) ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:42
Having read his post following my "being an arse" post, I wish to formally withdraw that statement. It was he being the arse all along. It was a foolish weakness on my part. :-( ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:46
Right...you're not trolling at all, are you? You're quite the decent, respectful one, aren't you? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:50
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Really, he gives himself away in his opening gambit. If this is no troll then I'm a Dutch auntie. t
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:51
He's got 5 stars, he can do whatever he wants. Your one star does not provide much of a buffer for admin wrath if you keep baiting people. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:51
I have no issue with an artist's FUSION work being included in this forum's top 100 albums. But "Kind of blue" is NOT progressive. If Davis does not have a proggy album which is popular enough to make the list here, do NOT include it. Simple. But your issue is that the solution to the problem is too hard. How hard is it to delete ONE album from the list of 100 here? I'm not a techie, but I wouldn't have thought it wasn't that hard...you just highlight the album and...press "Delete?" yeah? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:52
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.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:56
Oh right, me defending myself from the accusation of trolling is "baiting"...and you brainlessly quote people who swear at me approvingly. If you didn't give attitude you wouldn't get it from me. Stop giving me attitude and I won't give people attitude in return. That being said most of the mindless comments are from people with multiple stars to their name...if prog is meant to have intelligent fans it doesn't take much for people to quote offensive comments approvingly or to quote mind-numbingly inane comments approvingly..."Oh Henry". Yes Henry, Oh. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:56
Well......I wouldn't go that far. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:57
And you are being obscene and offensive because you want to get a reaction from me. It's overkill. Just be smug instead...you know, like you are some superintelligent being from another dimension...maybe call Genesis' debut "naive" or something...you know, pretend to be smart. That's all it takes to bug me. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:00
Kind of Blue actually is progressive, just not prog rock, but that's beside the point. Deciding what artist's albums to include and not include was long ago decided to be unnecessary so all albums are included. You can't stop people from rating an album highly because it's a good album. I am pretty sure you cannot just highlight the album. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:01
Actually he's not. That is Snow Dog in 100% honest form. Trust me |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:01
It's the reaction you wanted. But it was meant to be funny, so I guess I failed on that one. I'll just pretend to be smart then.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:06
You are still not gracing me with your response on rock music of the early '70s, it makes me sad.
We all have to pretend. :( ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:07
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I'm quoting Dean here as his post was largely ignored.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:07
------------- What? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:10
Either he is a troll or he doesn't consider anything that isn't a big "hit" worth considering. Until Abba came along nothing of merit was done in the seventies. Abba is his guide. Let it be ours! And if the radio doesn't play it it isn't worthwhile somehow?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:13
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dfle3...if you are genuine...stick around......I'm sure we can iron out any differences. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:22
I've never thought of using Trespass as a chill out album - I guess The Knife would spoil that soporific moment for me somewhat. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 02:40
------------- What? |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 03:29
I am quite well versed in British humor, not that I have a mastery of it...but I'm not sure anyone can! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 04:12
"Well, Baldric, I would just like to say how much I enjoyed your company and friendship but we both know that that would be an utter lie, so Sod Off and if I ever see you again, it will be a billion years too soon." ------------- What? |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 05:14
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 05:24
^A very reasonable reply. Thank you for being bothered to do it. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 09:59
Hey man - let's not fight - I just wanna have a discussion, friendly like  The list I gave you is not "grand poo-bar" approved, nor is there any guarantee that you will even like it. The point was simply, show you a few songs of various styles. You probably won't like all the songs, or all the styles - Polo is a perfect example, even though he is a prog fan, he only likes 3 of the tracks on my list. It's because prog is a hugely disparate genre; you might listen to Dream Theater one minute (metal guitars, keyboards, drum fills, etc.), and then the next track may be be Solus3 (a combination of jazz and world music with harp being one of the main instruments), followed by some DAAU (minimalistic chamber-style music with accordion), and finally end up on some Gnome-era Gong (spacey, psychadelic music with jazzy touches and a lot of humour). And you won't even be scratching the surface of what all prog has to offer, but you will experience 4 very different things. Not everyone will like all 4 of those things. I don't think there are many prog fans who like all it has to offer, so instead of guessing what you may like, I gave you a varied sampling of prog so you could figure it out. Hope you like some of it; if you let me know which tracks you liked, I (and others) may be able to make recommendations that suit your tastes a bit more.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 11:34
And, therefore, In Square Circle, is a classic? I Just Called To Say I Love You is Stevie's best song simply because it gets played the most often? I understand that everybody has to start somewhere, but why do you presume to judge that which you don't know? Why not listen and judge for yourself, why not maintain some healthy skepticism towards what the radio or magazines say (because it's just their own opinion, ultimately, and not the final word on an album or artist)? I mean, who on earth told you that the radio plays only the best pop/rock music ever made? Seriously, if you had at all heard Innervisions and compared it to Stevie's 80s output, you'd yourself find the statement you just made amusing. |
Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 12:41
I didn't say that prog cannot be immediately memorable, I merely said it's not necessarily meant to be. "Memorable" and "good prog" aren't mutually exclusive, but neither are they synonymous. Also, I wouldn't really call ITCOTCK "poppy," but that's just me, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  As for the second bit, no, it's not amiably pleasant easy listening music, not in my opinion at least. I despised Gentle Giant the first time I heard them, but as I've listened to them more I am able to find the greatness in their music. Much the same for quite a bit of prog music which I now count among my favorite stuff... Again, not saying that all prog has to follow this patter ( indeed, much doesn't), but, in my opinion, to dismiss any music (but particularly prog) after only a listen or two is a bit shortsighted. Again, though, feel free to listen to music however you please, this is just my experience. As for Beethoven, other than the main themes that everyone knows, I would say that they are no more immediately memorable than any other music. The 5th is about a half hour and the 9th is over an hour; how could they be? I don't think anyone could listen to it once and get everything there is to get out of it. And again, I would take issue with the idea that they are classics merely because they are "memorable," but you are of course free to disagree. As I have tried to make clear, I am not attacking you or your opinion, merely disagreeing and giving you mine. While there are some on this forum who are certainly... hotheaded, please understand that not every disagreement is a personal attack. No need to get defensive; civil discussion is usually much more productive.  ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 13:12
No. That's just my humble opinion.
Trolls are people who like to piss off other people for their own amusement.
Miles Davis was only included for his more adventurous (aka progressive) rock fusion. And KoB is a pretty good album, therefore it was highly rated and ended up on the list. You should know that one of the site's rules is to include the entire discographies of each artist, which is why that album is here.
You missed a sh*tload by not paying attention to the responses you got.
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 16:08
While I appreciate that you considered my comments to be among the "small number of intelligent posts here", I would say that "damning with faint praise" is the operative term in this case. As I noted previously, 9 out of the first 10 albums on your list were never considered progressive, which leads me (and others here) to consider your posts to be troll-bait. But I will cast aspersions to the wind and take the position that you really have no clue about progressive rock. That being said, and in a matter of fairness, since you obviously don't know the first thing about progressive music, let's ignore progressive rock altogether for a moment. Let's instead concentrate on your lack of knowledge regarding music as a whole.
Regarding your confrontational and confounding comment that the period between 1970 to 1976 was a "Dead Zone" musically speaking (the period between The Beatles disbanding, which was actually the end of 1969, and 1976, which was the point where ABBA reached #1 in the UK and top 50 in the US). I don't think you adequately explained yourself, particularly when Mr. Plainview brought the subject up in several responses. And, since you repeatedly refer to popularity or acclaim as milestones for what you consider proper music, I will use your own reference to The Rolling Stones 500 Greatest Albums as a yardstick (as much as I despise the puerile magazine).
Of the top 100 albums on RS's 500 Greatest, 32 albums were released in the time period you claim to be a musical "Dead Zone". THIRTY-TWO ALBUMS between 70-76, approximately one-third of the total. The only other 6 year period with more in the top 100 was 1963 to 1969 with 37 albums. The selections get rather sparse after 1976 and becomes negligible after 1980. This apparent brain fart on your part calls into question your ability to judge music overall, let alone comment on genres you have little experience with.
Again, I consider Rolling Stone magazine to be a critical travesty and a literal joke, but since you obviously read it and consider it worthy of mention, I thought I would share the punch line.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 17:32
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Thank you, Dark Elf, for being bothered to answer!
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Posted By: dfle3
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 04:39
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These are the things that greatly bug me...I'll note two kinds of poster on this forum...with examples: Type 1: Henry Plainview Their working assumption: To disagree with them is to be a troll. Maybe on this forum that counts as sophisticated analysis. To me it is just plain stupid. I've already commented on my take of people who use the term "troll"...but the view expressed by Henry is meant to signal that this person's opinion is like, you know, THE most important opinion in the world. To me, it has the opposite effect...you think disagreeing with you makes someone a troll? Okay...bye. Type 2: Saperlipopette! An annoying quote of theirs: " Maybe you'll grow tired of Genesis naive orchestral pop-debut, and discover that Supper's Ready has more to offer in the long run? ". They describe Genesis' debut as "naive". What's the opposite of "naive"? I'd say "sophisticated". Ok, so they're positioning themselves as "sophisticated". I wonder if it's a tragedy that Genesis never got the benefit of their 'sophisticated' views...e.g. think how GREAT their debut could have been if the Type 2 could have uttered pearls of wisdom like "Pete...less naive, yeah?", "Tony...can you tone down the naivety?", "Mike...go for sophisticated, yeah?". Do any serious critics say that Genesis' debut was "naive"? It's such an odd expression...like the type 2 is some sort of 10th dan Thetan waxing lyrical on humans. Maybe the type 2 believes that Bee Gees are 'naive', therefore anyone playing like them must be too? Here's the clincher...another quote: "Who knows, if you gave one of your progalbums a third and even a fourth spin, maybe your favorite track would change from Flaming to Interstallar Overdrive? "... Their working assumption: You are naive. I am sophisticated. Once you become a 10th dan Thetan like me, you too will see how naive your tastes in music are and you will come to agree with me. Can you see how might find such views funny? Another assumption of this forum: "Hit" is a genre of music. E.g. "Oh my God! The album has a hit on it! Hits suck, man!". Yes, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about...sheesh...I just know EXACTLY what you mean by "hit"...something to be avoided at all costs! Obviously there's no difference in style between a hit Eminem song and a hit Metallica song...I mean, they're the SAME genre! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dean When I highlight text to quote on your site I've found that a whole slab of OTHER text gets included and I have to edit what is on the reply box. Other sites aren't such a pain...you don't have to deal with that kind of stuff...you highlight the text you want, it appears, no dramas. Or you can just add the mark up or whatever it is called and do it yourself...I'd rather see that option that a whole slab of emoticons I have no intention of using. And if by deleting "Kind of blue" from your list of top 100 prog albums is liable to kill the internet, then maybe the site admins are doing something wrong? re you're comment that: "I've never thought of using Trespass as a chill out album - I guess The Knife would spoil that soporific moment for me somewhat." One song - the final song - makes you think that the album rocks? What can I say? I've listened to the album and falled asleep during it...maybe on this forum that counts as a bad reason to call it "soporific"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TheGazzardian I wasn't fighting you...just pointing out the contradiction...if I'm trolling for suggesting that Genesis' debut is their best album, then the fact that someone thinks your ten songs are rubbish should count for something on this forum. I made no comment on your list. Didn't ask for a list, and would have been more impressed if it was compiled with attention to my taste in music, as expressed in my RYM list. Which is another bug of mine...this thread isn't about me being "schooled" into the "right" prog to like...though many have taken it upon themselves to make it about that...like Type 2. Yeah, I just luuuurve people implying that my taste in music is naive and that their opinion is the last word in the 'right' prog to like. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- re support for Snow Dog... Yes, I'm afraid I'm sooo naive as to totally miss their English drollery. Perhaps once I attain 10th dan Thetan-hood I can better appreciate their comments? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Dark Elf It wasn't me who brought up the topic of prog albums being critical and commercial successes. I never vouched for Rolling Stone's opinion being superior to Henry Plainview's opinion...I hold them equal regard. Rolling Stone is regarded by some as a "bible" for contemporary music. So, I just used to illustrate that by one 'bible' of music, prog rock is noticeable for it's manifest absence. I then commented on prog albums not being big sellers. That's two planks of Henry's OWN view contested. Of course, if Henry totally disregards Rolling Stone's view, then am I suppose to infer that when they say that prog albums are critically praised, he means by such publications as "Prog" magazine? "Prog!" magazine"? "Prog! Prog! Prog!" magazine? Is that meant to carry more weight than Rolling Stone's opinion? As for my RYM list...you didn't bother to read my note at the top of the list...the bit about art rock and experimental music being included. Do you want me to congratulate you on noticing that not all the albums on it are prog? Good luck with that. Again, like so many people on this forum you make soooo many assumptions when you say: "Again, I consider Rolling Stone magazine to be a critical travesty and a literal joke, but since you obviously read it and consider it worthy of mention, I thought I would share the punch line." As for my Dead Zone comment...well, I personally don't rate albums like "Let it bleed" at all, and don't find Zeppelin albums other that IV to be particularly great...they're alright. But hey, you're view is the right view yeah? You're a 10th dan Thetan because you like prog, yeah? I really don't think that liking prog makes you smart. And listening to prog will not make you smart. I get the feeling that people on this board think the opposite. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have noticed some replies sort of like Snow Dog's comment that: "Until Abba came along nothing of merit was done in the seventies. Abba is his guide. Let it be ours!" Please see my comment about Type 1 and Type 2 people on this forum. And it also smacks of snobbery..."Ooh ABBA! Gosh...they are sooo awful! EVERYBODY knows that!". I'm guessing that some artists who even people on this forum admire are on record as admiring ABBA. And I seriously doubt that people who bring them up disparigingly have even heard their albums...kind of like the faux pas you'd get stuck into me about, yeah? If it wasn't for prog, there wouldn't be punk, or grunge. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 05:11
That "whole slab of OTHER text" are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBCodes" rel="nofollow - BBCodes that are used to format the text after it is posted onto the site. Deleting this text removes the formatting. These BBCodes create the neat little boxes that contain the quote and tell the rest of us who wrote the original quote, removing the OTHER text removes these neat little boxes.
the words QUOTE=Dean surrounded by square braces [ ] tells the forum engine to convert that into a quote-box with the heading Originally posted by Dean until it reaches the closing statement of /QUOTE surrounded by two square braces [ ].
This isn't unique to Prog Archives forum, most BBS systems use BBCodes. I suggest you read the Wikipedia article I linked or follow one of the many links from that page for more information.
Sorry, you've lost me. This is the owner's site and we run it the way he wants it running. If you don't like that there are other prog sites you can go and play with.
It was a joke - The Knife ends with distorted guitars, chaotic drumming and gunfire. But nevermind.
------------- What? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 06:57
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I have two things to say: 1. ABBA is awesome. 2. How can you not think that Trout Mask Replica has loads of instantly memorable classics that should be on FM radio all the time? I just don't understand people sometimes. ------------- 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 06:59
Yep, nothing wrong with Abba. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 07:20
Like most of your views: only in your head. Btw: No one thought you were a troll because they were disagreeing with your opinions (Well, lack of knowledge doesn't really qualify as opinion, but you know what I mean). They/we just couldn't believe you were being serious. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 11:58
Has it REALLY not occurred to you at all that you are making very many assumptions about the people on this forum, including that the few who actually bothered to get into an argument with you represent the views of everybody here? |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 12:17
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Let's try and bring this back to the original topic. My thoughts on your taste in music? I don't agree with a lot of it, but ... it's yours. You will like what you like, and that's all that really matters. Music is about enjoying it, not worrying what others think, listening to the "right" music (which is a fruitless effort anyways as what is right to some will be wrong to others) or any other such noise. Just listen to what you like. Cheers. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 12:33
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I have only now read a little bit of this thread (starting on first page), but it was very soon that someone implied that dfle is a troll due to list and told to stop his trolling when I see nothing wrong with how he replied, nor his list which I think heavily progressive rock (if not Prog genre proper). That was really disrespectful and uncalled for as far as I can see. I'd be disgruntled if I was treated that way at a site by a collaborator, and If I'd been around at the time and noticed I would have deleted those posts and issued a warning.. |