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"The years from 1969 to 1976 have some of the highest concentrations of
critically acclaimed and popular rock music of all time, it's impossible
to believe you are being sincere when you say things like this"
and:
"Nobody cares about the radio. ".
I live in Australia. I listen mainly to the stations that play classic rock/hits...some sort of "classic...." format. Not sure how to convince you that I've NEVER heard King Crimson played on these stations. or ELP...MAYBE one station MIGHT play Fanfare...can't vouch for it. Yes never get played, unless it's "Owner of a lonely heart".
Sure, an album can be critically acclaimed...but popular? I can only speak for Australian commercial FM stations...if this prog moment in music history was popular, you'd think it would get played, yeah? Over here, Dark Side is the earliest Floyd music you'll hear.
Commercial FM music here is a reflection on what is popular. Going on that, Prog is just not popular...Floyd is pretty much the exception to that rule...but, like I've said, they're more accessible and mainstream. Bands like Rush are unplayed here too. You just don't hear these acts...whether you find me impossible to believe, that's another matter. I'd find it hard to believe that the UK or US would have much prog rock played on commercial FM radio...MAYBE acts like Rush are more mainstream in the US? Here they have virtually no presence...very underground.
"They might become more memorable if you listen a few more times. Prog songs can be incredibly catchy and fulfilling once you take the time"
and
"Not the point. And if they are anything but memorable (complex, inaccessible?) a lot of the time for you, how could it be easy listening?".
A track like "The court of the Crimson King" I liked straight off but after a few listens considered it a classic. Meddle does a have a bit of a lost classic on it, I think...something that SHOULD get aired on commercial FM radio...but, the fact I can't remember it's title speaks of how 'memorable' it is....I have no trouble remembering how good Floyd songs like "Flaming" and "Remember a day" are...neither of which gets played over here in Australia.
I see no contradiction in an uncatchy song being unmemorable...the arrangements are easy on the ear...it's the difference between a catchy easy listening song and a forgettable easy listening song. I remember finding Genesis' debut my favourite, but I don't remember any specific songs off it though. I don't usually think of the music as being "complex" or whatnot...I'll just note that it lacks a pretty melody or lick or hook. Gabriel's lyrics could be very unpoppy - i.e. no verse/chorus/verse structure) but he sings it in an easy listening way nonetheless.
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:43
Protip: 70's prog, outside of classic hits/singles, rarely gets played on radio anywhere these days, although I did hear Watcher of The Skies being played in a mall here (canberra) a few weeks ago. Radio is a reflection of what is popular at the time of broadcast, and not too many kids these days are running out to grab Close To The Edge or ITCOTCK like they were in the 70's. You know this.
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
Posted: April 10 2011 at 03:43
dfle3 wrote:
Commercial FM music here is a reflection on what is popular.
Not really.
Going on that, Prog is just not popular..
I'm not arguing that (although many of the big acts have sold millions of copies and yes Rush gets airplay in the US), and I don't even care if you don't like prog very much because your troll-worthy opinion is that it's too pleasant and easy listening and From Genesis to Revelation is your favorite Genesis album. The only thing I am trying to say is that it is an objective fact that there was an enormous number of well regarded and popular albums released in that time period that are not prog. I'm not making a list because I've already wasted enough time on this, but if you ever truly believed that 1969 to 1976 is The Dead Zone of music that is an opinion that can only be born of ignorance, not preference.
Edited by Henry Plainview - April 10 2011 at 03:46
Your opinion that "Not really" as far as commercial airplay is an
indicator of popularity carries absolutely no weight with me at all.
Compare ratings of popular classic rock stations with ones that play a
lot of prog music. I'll take a wild guess that the classic rock
stations/programmes greatly outrate the prog stations/programmes.
You don't think so? If you say so. You're "Not really" comment isn't winning me over. Pithy, but weightless point of view.
re my "Troll worthy opinion"...yuh...anyone who disagrees with you must
be a troll. Whatever dude. Do I care that you don't agree with me that
Genesis' debut is their best? No. But hey, I have to bow down to you oh
so superior opinion right? Not really.
And I'm saying that I don't rate prog that highly because it doesn't have many memorable/killer tunes.
And since I've listened to a fair bit of prog music recently, I think my
view is valid...I had the Dead Zone view before I listened to prog
albums, but it's a fair characterisation of the genre as far as radio
worthy songs go. I'm assuming that you bag me because I disagree with
you. Does it bother me that our views don't co-incide? Not really. But I
don't go around calling you a troll.
Protip: 70's prog, outside of classic hits/singles, rarely gets played on radio anywhere these
days, although I did hear Watcher of The Skies being played in a mall
here (canberra) a few weeks ago. Radio is a reflection of what is
popular at the time of broadcast, and not too many kids these days are
running out to grab Close To The Edge or ITCOTCK like they were in the
70's. You know this.
Have to disagree with you if you mean that classic format radio stations
don't play what was popular at the time...the reason why you hear Bon
Jovi a lot on these stations is because people liked those songs THEN
and NOW. So, the fact that no one plays prog songs now is a reflection
that those songs aren't popular NOW NOR THEN.
So, it's not a case of kids not buying CTTE or ITCOTCK now...it's a case
that not enough people bought these albums THEN. There is NO demand for
songs off these albums being played...it's just the mainstream DSOTM
which gets played in place of 'real' prog rock.
I have no idea about Watcher of The Skies...whoever sung that should
count themselves lucky to be heard by you...are you arguing that that
song is popular NOW?
It's the critically acclaimed AND popularly acclaimed music that gets
played now...which is why we get no prog rock on the radio. It's that
simple.And I've already said that there is SOME prog rock which I think
is good enough to get played nowadays...just not as much as fans of the
genre would like to believe.
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: April 10 2011 at 06:48
dfle3 wrote:
Have to disagree with you if you mean that classic format radio stations
don't play what was popular at the time...the reason why you hear Bon
Jovi a lot on these stations is because people liked those songs THEN
and NOW. So, the fact that no one plays prog songs now is a reflection
that those songs aren't popular NOW NOR THEN.
It is hard to believe that you'd be blissfully unaware of the changes that swept through the music industry at the end of the 70s, which has a lot to do with some of the popular stuff of the time not being popular today. That does not mean it was not popular then or does not reflect the popular music of the time.
dfle3 wrote:
It's the critically acclaimed AND popularly acclaimed music that gets
played now...which is why we get no prog rock on the radio. It's that
simple.And I've already said that there is SOME prog rock which I think
is good enough to get played nowadays...just not as much as fans of the
genre would like to believe.
Ok, I'll give you an example and from outside prog rock. My aunt has lived in America for 25 years and she is not aware of many of Stevie Wonder's songs from the 70s because she hasn't heard them on the radio. Maybe they do get played on the radio there, I wouldn't know, but not as much as his 80s hits. Does that mean albums like Innervisions were not popular at the time of their release? Of course not. But reasoning with someone who believes that what is played on the radio necessarily reflects what is good enough to be is difficult.
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13054
Posted: April 10 2011 at 09:25
dfle3 wrote:
Just the fact that there's so few memorable songs...like I said I LOVE "The court of the Crimson King" (song), but there's really not a whole stack of songs I feel that strongly in 'real' prog music...a band like Pink Floyd are way more mainstream than King Crimson and I would LOVE to hear songs like "Flaming" and "Remember a day" on the radio.
That you don't suggests that the music is not mainstream nor killer/memorable.
Again, this incessant mention of music that is "not mainstream nor killer/memorable". What exactly do you mean?
I noticed you had the band Television on your list. That you enjoy punk elevator muzak tells me all I need to know about your "tastes". But I suppose Television did have some "killer" songs because the composer committed suicide after playing them too long. I suppose it was much like Monty Python's "world's deadliest joke".
dfle3 wrote:
A lot of the 'real' prog albums I've heard are nice enough...easy listening to my way of thinking, but they don't really contain songs that you feel mainstream FM stations SHOULD be playing.
I LOVE Zappa's "Help, I'm a rock" but I get why it doesn't get played on mainstream FM radio.
Then you are the problem, and the solution is not to listen to you or FM radio.
dfle3 wrote:
And if you think that "Thick as a brick" deserves to be heard on the radio, then I think we are coming from completely different positions...it might be appropriate on a station devoted to prog rock, but the kind of songs I love are the kind of songs that I think SHOULD be played on mainstream FM stations...personally, I can't understand how "The court of the Crimson King" is NOT played there...I feel robbed...can't really say I feel that way for most prog music...is pleasantly easy listening, but nothing more.
Yes, we are coming from different positions. And our viewpoints are irreconcilable. I have FM radios in my cars that I use to get the weather, traffic updates and sports news. I certainly don't use it to listen to the tripe that is played on your precious "mainstream" stations. In any case, FM radio is virtually a dead letter. With the advent of CDs and MP3 players, only the truly insipid would listen to FM radio for musical content -- in any genre. Why would anyone with any sense listen to a medium that dictates what you listen to, interspersed with inane commercials?
Enjoy your trolling trip. Come back when you have something worthwhile to offer.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: August 11 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8667
Posted: April 10 2011 at 09:58
dfle3 - the reason you are getting accused of trolling is because you came to a forum for progressive rock fans, and essentially said, "your music is easy listening and it's not popular because it's not good." Of course that's going to raise eyebrows.
It also gives off the impression you haven't listened to much prog music, because the genre is well known for being more challenging than what is played on the radio, and requiring multiple listens to truly uncover.
If you are serious about trying to figure out what progressive rock is all about, these tips might be useful:
1) Not a lot of prog is played on the radio, as you know, and not a lot of prog fans care a lot. So don't listen to prog expecting to hear a radio hit.
2) A lot of prog music sounds much better as albums then as individual songs. So try giving a full album a few spins before coming to a conclusion.
3) A lot of what is on your list is not considered prog. Even that Genesis album you have in your #10 slot is sort of borderline ... the bands widely acknowledged + celebrated "prog" period actually runs from their next album, Trespass, until ... well, that depends on who you ask, but at the very earliest, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
If you really want to get a feel for what prog is, do what has been recommended: listen to the albums in the top 10 list. Those are what are widely regarded as the classics of progressive rock. It is a wildly disparate genre with a lot of bands that sound nothing alike. Rush is closer to Hard Rock while The Enid is closer to classical; Karda Estra has elements of new age, while Universe Zero has elements of chamber music. Psyche, Jazz, Blues, World Music, and many other genres of music have all been incorporated into one prog bands sound or another. There's even a band called Magma famous for not inventing only a new genre (called Zeuhl), but a new language (where the word Zeuhl came from)! Their music, to my ears, is like a combination of jazz, opera, and rock. It is not precisely "easy listening"
If you want a quick overview of prog rock, here are ten songs ... rather than go for the most famous, I tried to go for the most varied, using as many famous tracks as I could.
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