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moshkito 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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 Posted: March 28 2011 at 14:34 |
 Mr. Maestro wrote:
... but I know people who cannot find heavy riffage, intense vocals, grim lyrics, and self-indulgent instrumental work appealing no matter how progressive it is. |
Sad ... that music has to be "specified" as to what it is and can be ... specially when the 20th century was almost exclusively about breaking conventions ...
Intense vocals, has nothing to do with "metal" any more than it does with folk ... or anything else ... and I would like to suggest you sit and listen to Fairport Convention's song "One More Chance", and then listen to the original demo with Sandy Denny on piano only ... on the remastered CD, and then realize ... she was gone two weeks later ... and did not have a chance ... and that haunting voice in that song is almost prophetic ... and you don't need to scream to get it across, except some idiots don't know the difference between being themselves and having to do something for money and an audience only.
Grim lyrics ... yeah, like one can take seriously Rob Zombie or Marylin Manson or the many copies that are considered "Prog" something or other.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:34 |
Because if it's not Scottish, it's crrrrap? 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:48 |
andyman1125 wrote:
Now don't you go and say "But I like prog metal!!" I know some people do, but a lot of people don't.
Why?
In my opinion, I think many of the classic prog fans don't like the heavier music tainting their genre. If you like Harry Potter, Prog Metal is like half-bloods: where classic prog rock is pure-blood and metal is mud-blood-- when the two mix, the pure-bloods don't like it. Prog metal is essentially the combination of bands that most classic fans don't like, such as Metallica or Slayer, with the bands they do, such as Yes, Genesis or Rush. The resulted product is a tainted one. You wouldn't eat something that had dirt on it would you?
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I don't like prog metal, and it has nothing to do with the heavy part; I like it heavy. I dislike the double bass-drumming that usually is part of prog metal. Also prog metal usually is just heavy and nothing else; harmonically it is rather conventional, symphonic almost, and I am more into the weird stuff. If they were heavy with lots of dissonances and refrained from the double bass-drumming I would be fine with it. Actually I think double-bass drumming rather reduces the heaviness instead of adding to it, simply because you lose means of accentuation. If there is bass drum on almost any beat it is the same as if there is bass drum on no beat at all.; it is the accentuation which makes it heavy.
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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silcir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 06 2009
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Points: 190
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:53 |
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i like some minor quantities of prog metal. i think i still could listen to DT's awake without stopping it (well, maybe not).
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
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Points: 11415
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 16:04 |
BaldFriede wrote:
andyman1125 wrote:
Now don't you go and say "But I like prog metal!!" I know some people do, but a lot of people don't.
Why?
In my opinion, I think many of the classic prog fans don't like the heavier music tainting their genre. If you like Harry Potter, Prog Metal is like half-bloods: where classic prog rock is pure-blood and metal is mud-blood-- when the two mix, the pure-bloods don't like it. Prog metal is essentially the combination of bands that most classic fans don't like, such as Metallica or Slayer, with the bands they do, such as Yes, Genesis or Rush. The resulted product is a tainted one. You wouldn't eat something that had dirt on it would you?
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I don't like prog metal, and it has nothing to do with the heavy part; I like it heavy. I dislike the double bass-drumming that usually is part of prog metal. Also prog metal usually is just heavy and nothing else; harmonically it is rather conventional, symphonic almost, and I am more into the weird stuff. If they were heavy with lots of dissonances and refrained from the double bass-drumming I would be fine with it.
Actually I think double-bass drumming rather reduces the heaviness instead of adding to it, simply because you lose means of accentuation. If there is bass drum on almost any beat it is the same as if there is bass drum on no beat at all.; it is the accentuation which makes it heavy.
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Yep, perceptive post. There's a lot of prog metal that appears to be frightened of leaving any spaces between the notes (so the music doesn't breathe) e.g. ELP sound like 3 great swordsmen while DT sound like any old machine gunners etc 
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 00:26 |
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ELP sucks though.
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Ruby900
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2009
Location: UK
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Points: 739
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 03:39 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Loudness and aggression is the reason for some people, but you can't generalize at all. I just find metal cheesy and ridiculous, almost nothing is too loud and aggressive. |
I think that this is where I am....
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"I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 05:36 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Yep, perceptive post. There's a lot of prog metal that appears to be frightened of leaving any spaces between the notes (so the music doesn't breathe) e.g. ELP sound like 3 great swordsmen while DT sound like any old machine gunners etc
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Very well said, sir. Yes, long pieces in particular work better with spaces. Also, prog metal abhors reinforcement but if I don't know how exactly the song got from point A to B, it's not very interesting just listening to connecting-the-dots sections. Not that reinforcement by itself would solve the problem and in a metal context, it would bring on its own set of problems. I still feel the no.1 problem is prog metal songwriters are loath to venture away from 80s metal tones, which I am not sure lend themselves to a certain looseness that makes prog rock (good prog rock, that is!) appealing. Black Sabbath on Sabotage were a lot more nimble than many of the melodic prog metal bands are able to be and that at least partly has to do with the tones (also to do with their predominant blues influences, possibly).
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 05:59 |
BaldFriede wrote:
I don't like prog metal, and it has nothing to do with the heavy part; I like it heavy. I dislike the double bass-drumming that usually is part of prog metal. Also prog metal usually is just heavy and nothing else; harmonically it is rather conventional, symphonic almost, and I am more into the weird stuff. If they were heavy with lots of dissonances and refrained from the double bass-drumming I would be fine with it.
Actually I think double-bass drumming rather reduces the heaviness instead of adding to it, simply because you lose means of accentuation. If there is bass drum on almost any beat it is the same as if there is bass drum on no beat at all.; it is the accentuation which makes it heavy.
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It is also worth adding that a lot of prog rock from the 70s actually was heavy, be it KC's Larks/Red, Genesis's Return of the Giant Hogweed or Gentle Giant's Pantagruel's Nativity. Even Tarkus, actually. Heavy in the true sense of the word. Heavy is not the monopoly of 80s metal tonality.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 06:15 |
I like some Prog Metal....just like I like some Metal. There is no genre here I think I can absolutely say I don't like. I would say with PM though that if you aren't keen on metal...then PM is unlikely to be your bag.
The reason I like Prog Metal...well it was the genre I was always waiting for to a degree. I liked the sound of metal but it didn't have enough "bits" for me. I'm not saying a straightforward metal song doesn't do the business mind.
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:08 |
Really it's the entire metal genre that I dislike a majority of the time. It's just impossible to take seriously, way too repetitive, and the whole shred god approach to music (John Petrucci's playing is technically inclined, but is about as emotional as those joke videos such as "Eric Clapton Shreds", or "BB King Shreds") couldn't be more obnoxious or lacking in emotion. I like Blotted Science a lot, but that is because they aren't absurdly repetitive, and the music actually has DYNAMICS, rather than starting heavy and endlessly cycling through riffs til it's done.
And to me screaming vocals are, once again, impossible to take seriously.
And since somebody brought it up, I do also dislike the really cliche' double bassing. Seriously, how many songs can have a generic 4/4 beat with 2 and 4 being accented and consistent sixteenth note double bass? Way too many.
So to sum it up, showy playing at the expense of originality/emotion, screaming vocals, and a lack of variety.
Edited by himtroy - March 30 2011 at 13:14
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 13352
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:22 |
himtroy wrote:
Really it's the entire metal genre that I dislike a majority of the time. It's just impossible to take seriously, way too repetitive, and the whole shred god approach to music (John Petrucci's playing is technically inclined, but is about as emotional as those joke videos such as "Eric Clapton Shreds", or "BB King Shreds") couldn't be more obnoxious or lacking in emotion. I like Blotted Science a lot, but that is because they aren't absurdly repetitive, and the music actually has DYNAMICS, rather than starting heavy and endlessly cycling through riffs til it's done.
And to me screaming vocals are, once again, impossible to take seriously.
And since somebody brought it up, I do also dislike the really cliche' double bassing. Seriously, how many songs can have a generic 4/4 beat with 2 and 4 being accented and consistent sixteenth note double bass? Way too many.
So to sum it up, showy playing at the expense of originality/emotion, screaming vocals, and a lack of variety.
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Agreed!!! This is how I feel about metal, either considered prog or not.
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
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Points: 1433
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:24 |
I don't really like metal so I doubt I'd like Prog Metal.....
I don't like Prog because it's progressive, I like it because it sounds nice. So whether this metal is progressive, regressive, or obsessive, it's still "metallic". I don't mind heavy or dark music, but metal just has a sound to it that I can't take seriously, because, as so many have said, the focus seems to be on getting that thick, suffocating sound. You can instantly recognise a metal song...... and it's not because of the volume or guitar presence, it's because of the feeling (or lack of). Whenever there are keyboards present they seem to be cheesy 90's textural things....... a complete turn off (if I wasn't already turned off by the distortion, echo, reverb and crunch all turned up to 100%)........
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
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Points: 1072
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:28 |
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I stay away from anything labeled metal. I usually find it boring and irritating. I like well-timed hooks, natural progression, and strong emphasis on all parts of the rhythm (including the spaces). Overall I don't want a noise blast, I want a sort of ethereal building up - Metal doesn't seem to have that.
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Bonnek
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:35 |
Interesting question, as it sort of applies to me ( classic Prog Metal is indeed one of my least favorite metals). First things that come to mind are cheesiness, keyboard bombast, cliché high-pitched vocals, pointless virtuosity and shredding, and cheesiness. No, don't like it So how did I end up in the metal team exactly?  
Edited by Bonnek - March 30 2011 at 13:44
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NecronCommander
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:47 |
I'm with you there 100%, Karl. That vanilla prog metal stuff is usually not for me.
Also, whoever said that metal has no feeling or emotion is the wrongest of wrong.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 14:37 |
Snow Dog wrote:
I like some Prog Metal....just like I like some Metal. There is no genre here I think I can absolutely say I don't like. I would say with PM though that if you aren't keen on metal...then PM is unlikely to be your bag.
The reason I like Prog Metal...well it was the genre I was always waiting for to a degree. I liked the sound of metal but it didn't have enough "bits" for me. I'm not saying a straightforward metal song doesn't do the business mind. |
Same ...
My main concern is that if someone is concerned that this or that is "metal", then we're not listening to the music ... and that is not (at all) the reasoning of a progressive thinker and appreciat'or! (is there such a word?)
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Catcher10
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Joined: December 23 2009
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 15:29 |
I like a lot of prog metal. I find there are a lot of new bands in this area in the past 2 yrs, so it gives me the opportunity to do more exploration within the Metal category in general.
Some of the material is very interesting.....it keeps my attention, for example material by O.S.I. especially Blood. Bands like Canvas Solaris are interesting, some say..."its the same thing over and over..." I guess I listen harder and don't see it that way.
I think for me it comes from being a longtime fan of Iron Maiden and Saxon.
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YourNumber1Fan
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 17 2015
Location: Philippines
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Posted: August 17 2015 at 20:54 |
Its not in the music or the type of music that an artist produces. It all boils down to personal preferences. I like prog. No doubt. I would listen to all DT songs. Per album. Up until Black Clouds and Silver Linings. Nothing against Mike Mangini but I like Portnoy. I followed his (very) strange journey, jumping in and out of many bands from Adrenaline Mob to The Winery Dogs (new album coming soon) to Flying Colors and some of his side projects.
I'm also starting to develop a taste for Spock's Beard.
So yeah. You can't force others to like what you like, and vice versa.
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Finnforest
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Posted: August 17 2015 at 21:08 |
Prog Metal actually rekindled my appreciation for regular (non prog) metal. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
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