Opinions on why some don't like prog metal?
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Topic: Opinions on why some don't like prog metal?
Posted By: Andy Webb
Subject: Opinions on why some don't like prog metal?
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 18:33
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Now don't you go and say "But I like prog metal!!" I know some people do, but a lot of people don't. Why? In my opinion, I think many of the classic prog fans don't like the heavier music tainting their genre. If you like Harry Potter, Prog Metal is like half-bloods: where classic prog rock is pure-blood and metal is mud-blood-- when the two mix, the pure-bloods don't like it. Prog metal is essentially the combination of bands that most classic fans don't like, such as Metallica or Slayer, with the bands they do, such as Yes, Genesis or Rush. The resulted product is a tainted one. You wouldn't eat something that had dirt on it would you? What are your thoughts? ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Replies:
Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 18:42
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I like progressive metal when it's progressive death/black/doom/what-have-you. I don't like prefix-less prog metal like Dream Theater and their ilk a lot of the time because I find they often have bad songwriting and terrible vocals. Those aren't problems with a band like, say, Opeth or Agalloch, who are two bands who also happen to use their prog roots in far more interesting ways than Dream Theater, as it happens. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:14
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For me, it's simply because I don't care for much modern metal -- "prog" or otherwise.
I don't think about any supposed "tainting" of prog, or worry about genres, the music simply tends to be too heavy, fast and aggressive for me. It makes me feel anxious/stressed, and I just can't relate or find pleasure in that.
Overall, I favour the softer end of the musical spectrum (folk, etc) much more than the heavier.
Different strokes.... ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:16
| it has nothing to do with whether or not it's prog metal, some people just don't like music that they don't like |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:22
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Exactly Colin, I don't like most neo-prog but it has absolutely nothing to do with it's heaviness obviously. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Adams Bolero
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:25
It's too  loud!------------- ''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.'' - Albert Camus |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:25
Two people hear the same music: one loves it, the other loathes it. Both are "right" (if not to each other). ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Triceratopsoil wrote:Posted By: rod65
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:31
I am pretty sure that this analogy does not work as classic prog is anything but a "pure" genre. It is this refusal to acknowledge generic boundaries that help to make the music so interesting, and insofar as prog metal also displays this tendency, it is simply following in the footsteps of classic prog. So no, I have to say that the matter of "purity" is probably not terribly relevant. Perhaps the heaviness of the sub-genre puts some people off, as I admit it put me off at first--though once I gave it a chance, I found that my mind changed fairly quickly, and prog metal now makes up a substantial proportion of my listening.
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:35
Protip: Agalloch & Opeth are hipster garbage and DT is 2deep4u.   -------------   
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:37
Obvious troll is obvious.  FWIW, I don't like the Prog Metal genre very much, but I do like Tech/Extreme and Post/Experimental a lot. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:41
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Loudness and aggression is the reason for some people, but you can't generalize at all. I just find metal cheesy and ridiculous, almost nothing is too loud and aggressive. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:49
Because there's people whop don't like Prog or Pop or Rap, Hip Hop or Rock or Classical, etc....Why should Metal or Prog Metal should be different? Even inside Prog, I know people who hate Neo Prog or Fusion or pre 90's or Post 89 Prog. Every person has a different taste and we don't need to ask why, because there's bno answer except that each person has his/her own taste. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:55
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I think there's a perception that Progressive Metal was lauded as the closest thing we had in the 90's to a legitimate heir to the Prog throne after the abdication of the royal family of 20 years before (Crimson, Yes, ELP, Floyd, Genesis etc) There's also a feeling amongst some of the older progheads (myself included) that not only were these young pretenders of dubious lineage they were unwittingly pivotal in the constitution of PA changing from a monarchy to a republic. Sometimes we're nostalgic for things that never even occurred in the first place (and everyone loves what can never come back) but I suspect the original spirit of Prog can never be, nor should be able to be replicated (how progressive would that be?  )le mort saisit le vif - (the dead holds the living in his grasp) ------------- 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:57
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I know you are a musician. Cert1fied's Scenes from A Memory review is a good analysis of the problems in the prog metal approach. Anyway, this in a nutshell is my problem: 1. The accent in prog rock is heavily on melodic exploration along a clear melodic path. I don't mind the often slow pace of the music because it is developing all the time, moving forward. A lot of times, it is not clear in prog metal where the song is heading. Nor is there much melodic exploration. It is difficult to explore - once you bring in those crushing metal riffs, you have to find melodies that go along with the riffs and there's not all that broad a range of melodies that work with heavy riffs. In absolute terms, anything can be broad and exploratory, of course, but I am obviously comparing it to prog rock here. There's not much melodic adventure in prog metal. Essentially, once you get past the complications and technicalities, it's good ol' metal music. 2. But it ought to still work as metal music, right? No, because metal music is driven by riffs. When you listen to Metallica or Slayer's 80s songs, there is a sort of mathematical progression in the riffs each time the verses are played. That gives me something to focus on when there's not much happening melodically (especially Slayer). But prog metal, especially the melodic side of it, draws from heavy metal and particularly from 80s pop metal, which is essentially a heavier kind of hard rock. Not too highly engrossing riffs-wise. What prog metal bands do is to write complicated riffs instead. Again, complicated riffs only sound interesting in isolation and not in the context of a song as they don't by themselves propel movement. Essentially, prog metal could be described as having an idealistic approach of getting the best out of both prog rock and metal but rarely succeeding in practice. It comes across often as a pastiche of lots of interesting ideas that could not somehow be bound together as well they ought to be for my taste. 3. A big problem that comes with the metal sound is the base becomes rigid. You might play a minute or two of reggae over it, a minute of hip-hop later, whatever, but the base is undeniably metal. Prog rock bands were often able to develop their own unique base. In fact, superficial similarities like the use of organs or classical influence were all that Yes, Genesis and ELP had in common. Fundamentally, they were as different as three bands could be from each other. That is difficult to achieve for prog metal bands because they all share the same base: metal. You can add your own colour and twist to it but at the end of the day you are all playing metal. It would not do to say that likewise prog rock bands are all playing rock because it's rock in a loose sense to begin with and what is rock, further, is not so easily identifiable as metal. Particularly, modern metal is defined by 80s crunch, so the common base becomes swiftly evident. 4. Lastly, even after all these reasons are overlooked, remains the unfortunate preference for 80s pop metal cliches or 90s pop by prog metal bands. If I could at least find some originality in the dimension of emotional expression, which is ultimately the most important part of music, other considerations become easy to forgive. But I don't really want to hear LaBrie sing like those very pop metal singers I want to avoid, the same plastic and faceless approach to singing. The playing too is precise and calculated rather than expressive. This is something particularly surprising for me because metal playing in the 80s was raw and often sloppy, emphasising speed and aggression over precision. However, prog metal musicians seem to be influenced more by Malmsteen or technical metal like Megadeth. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 20:19
You are indeed on target, I could not say it better. One thing I could add is the fact that the 80s influence is quite predominant, forgetting about the legacy of the 70s hard rock or metal bands, like Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, etc. Their sound was original and distinct, not like the metal of today. I find it very hard to see a difference of style on today's bands, and most guitarist have the same sound (The Eddie Van Halen sound to be more specific). You could very easily tell Ritchie Blackmore from Tommy Iomi, or Jimmy Page for example, which is not really the case today.
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 20:25
Couldn't have said it better!  ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 20:29
Absolutely, Eddie Van Halen has indeed turned out to be one of the most influential guitarists but, and for no fault of his, for the wrong reasons. Everybody wants to play like him, though 30 years have passed since they exploded on the scene. Iommi, Blackmore, or even more precise axemen like Roth had distinct styles. It is not too far fetched to say that some of the differences between 70s metal and modern metal are similar to that of between prog rock and prog metal. |
Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 22:04
I guess that's true if you're talking about mainstream stuff only, but the 2000s was a spectacular decade for metal if you knew where to look. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 01:40
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I don't like progressive metal because of the lack of dynamics, the 'dead' recordings and the often power-metal-like atmosphere. There are some good examples of the contrary, but most progressive metal albums don't touch me at all (though I must say the technical approach challanges my musical brain from time to time).
Furthermore, (prog)metal has caused a huge amound of muscial inflation. Once the grunt stood for a moment of the most extremes of emotions (Be Carefull with that Axe Eugene), nowadays lot's of band use the grunt in all parts of the album and it isn't exciting at all. Another good example is usage of heavy metal riffs on all moments. Once the Larks Tongues in Aspic part 1 main riff stood as a powerhouse, now bands use this kind of force for a metal-ballad which is absurd. As an answer the modern metal has come with endless layers of distortion (Lucassan & Townsend now use 15 layers of metal guitars on their albums..) to keep up with their diminishing effect. This is the main reason for a dynamicless sound. Everything is loud. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 02:09
I don't care for modern music -- prog, metal, prog metal or otherwise. |
Posted By: Theriver
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 02:38
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Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 04:14
Some people can't stand the heavy guitars.I don't understand it but it happens.Unfortunately!
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 04:53
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Prog metal is awesome but I do not like screechy growly death METAL VOCALS. ------------- 
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Posted By: Atoms
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 05:50
| I don't like Prog metal because I havn't found anything interesting in it, when I listen to it, I just hear the same song all the time, but I do however like Post-Metal since I'm very hooked on the experimental part of bands like Tool. I'm always drawn to the more experimental and jazzy side of music, and I feel that Prog Metal doesn't really fill those needs for me. |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 06:06
This is about how I feel. There is also something about some of the singers too. Some, not all, remind me of 80's hair band vocalists and I never liked that style of singing.
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Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 06:28
Completely agree. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 06:31
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For me it's not a matter of like or dislike, but until I discovered this site, I always considered the two mutually exclusive, and since I have found so much other material on this site, I have no interest in exploring it at this moment. No disrespect to those who do like it. I did get an album by Altihea before they were added to this site due to the blurb on CD Baby, which didn't really say they were metal. I think it's alright. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 08:52
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[/QUOTE] I guess that's true if you're talking about mainstream stuff only, but the 2000s was a spectacular decade for metal if you knew where to look. [/QUOTE]
I hope you are right. I listen to prog metal from time to time, but have not found anything substantially good, maybe because, as you said, did not know where to look, and I truly hope that prog metal finds a way to a more versatile and innovative sound, so more people get into it.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 08:57
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[/QUOTE] You are indeed on target, I could not say it better.
One thing I could add is the fact that the 80s influence is quite predominant, forgetting about the legacy of the 70s hard rock or metal bands, like Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, etc. Their sound was original and distinct, not like the metal of today. I find it very hard to see a difference of style on today's bands, and most guitarist have the same sound (The Eddie Van Halen sound to be more specific). You could very easily tell Ritchie Blackmore from Tommy Iomi, or Jimmy Page for example, which is not really the case today. [/QUOTE]Completely agree. [/QUOTE] It's interesting because I remember hearing Alan Holdsworth with Gong and noticed the same distortion levels and sustain of Van Halen. Of course Van Halen was deeply influenced by Holdsworth. The riffs, the technique, and the sound. To get that sound one would have to surely apply a full-lock sustaining sound. If you listen to Holdsworth's soloing on Soft Machine Bundles, you may pick it up.....again, you may not. When Holdsworth plays power chords with Gong, use an EQ or try to imagine the chords without the other instruments and it sounds like metal. Actually heavier than Steve Hillage. (Live Herald). and a bit more like Van Halen.
Van Halen was also infuenced by Jeff Beck. I'm going the distance for him and I hate his music. He can actually play decent but is thought of in the vain of a cartoon character. The reference you make which is based on the difference in players from the 70's is telling. Not just their sound was different but, their approach in what is defined as practices. They were diverse players but their methods of development were quite different from 80's guitarists. I felt putrid over the "Buzz Saw" sound. Tom Schlotz, Lonesome Dave Peverett, Randy Bachman, Mark Farner, and Leslie West. It's too easy to get away with cheating in the usage of this sound. Luther Grosvenor from Spooky Tooth had the Toni Iommi sound on "The Last Puff". His distortion level was comparable to the nightmares listed above however he had that British Blues Boom sound and it was very complimenting to the music. When you hear Blackmore solo in "Lazy" from Machine Head, Rory Gallagher on "Live In Europe" and Clapton on "Crossroads" you wonder why the sound had to change? Andy Powell or even Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson from Thin Lizzy had a more diverse approach to the usage of distortion.
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Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 09:03
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 09:11
You are indeed on target, I could not say it better.
One thing I could add is the fact that the 80s influence is quite predominant, forgetting about the legacy of the 70s hard rock or metal bands, like Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, etc. Their sound was original and distinct, not like the metal of today. I find it very hard to see a difference of style on today's bands, and most guitarist have the same sound (The Eddie Van Halen sound to be more specific). You could very easily tell Ritchie Blackmore from Tommy Iomi, or Jimmy Page for example, which is not really the case today. [/QUOTE]Completely agree. [/QUOTE] It's interesting because I remember hearing Alan Holdsworth with Gong and noticed the same distortion levels and sustain of Van Halen. Of course Van Halen was deeply influenced by Holdsworth. The riffs, the technique, and the sound. To get that sound one would have to surely apply a full-lock sustaining sound. If you listen to Holdsworth's soloing on Soft Machine Bundles, you may pick it up.....again, you may not. When Holdsworth plays power chords with Gong, use an EQ or try to imagine the chords without the other instruments and it sounds like metal. Actually heavier than Steve Hillage. (Live Herald). and a bit more like Van Halen.
Van Halen was also infuenced by Jeff Beck. I'm going the distance for him and I hate his music. He can actually play decent but is thought of in the vain of a cartoon character. The reference you make which is based on the difference in players from the 70's is telling. Not just their sound was different but, their approach in what is defined as practices. They were diverse players but their methods of development were quite different from 80's guitarists. I felt putrid over the "Buzz Saw" sound. Tom Schlotz, Lonesome Dave Peverett, Randy Bachman, Mark Farner, and Leslie West. It's too easy to get away with cheating in the usage of this sound. Luther Grosvenor from Spooky Tooth had the Toni Iommi sound on "The Last Puff". His distortion level was comparable to the nightmares listed above however he had that British Blues Boom sound and it was very complimenting to the music. When you hear Blackmore solo in "Lazy" from Machine Head, Rory Gallagher on "Live In Europe" and Clapton on "Crossroads" you wonder why the sound had to change? Andy Powell or even Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson from Thin Lizzy had a more diverse approach to the usage of distortion. [/QUOTE]
Once I read an article on this subject, I think it was on progsheet.com. I just looked for it but could not find it, but stressed the evident difference between guitarists before and after Van Halen. As you mentioned, not just their sound, but their approach was quite different. I think also the state of the music industry was different and quite influential, since the 60s and 70s were more of a "Be yourself" an allowed bands to be more unique and expressive, whereas in the 80s and 90s music in general was more mainstream, meaning you had to fit into the sound/trend dictated by the industry (You can find references to this in the film "Before the Music Dies"), and it has limited many artists in their output of creative music, not only in rock, but in every genre of music.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 10:58
Indeed, I hope so too. I am generally on the lookout for something really interesting from the prog metal scene and I can't say I have found much. Riverside, Shadow Gallery, Circus Maximus, Adagio (don't know if they are on this site), Silent Force (ditto, very power metal-based, both bands), all decent bands but nothing all that great. When I did stumble upon a really interesting prog metal band ACT, they turned out to be eclectic prog according to this website.
 I also remember reading CCVP's review of their album The Last Epic, saying that they were like Andromeda but not a patch and based on Extension of the Wish, I neither found much common ground nor found ACT inferior, quite the opposite. So my way of looking at music must be very different from most prog metal fans. |
Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 11:10
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There is definitely some prog metal I do enjoy, though I find a lot of it to be bland and predictable. That being said, I also find many bands in any other prog sub-genre to be bland and predictable... It's just a matter of what hits you musically and what doesn't.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 12:14
death metal vocals aren't screechy |
Posted By: bartosso
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:12
| Prog metal is generally lousy but there are a few bands which are absolutely brilliant - Opeth, Meshuggah, Tool, Riverside are fantastic and I love them really. Decapitated, with their last album, was great too, but their drummer died in an accident so I don't know if they're going to continue. Fantastic drummer by the way. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:22
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Owing to recommendations given to me on a thread I started a few weeks ago, I am exploring a bit of prog metal now. The jury is still out on what I think for the purposes of this thread.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:23
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I like some prog metal, but that which I don't I dislike for the same reason as regular metal...screaming/growling. I've never been able to take any music seriously that has a grown man growling like a beast or screaming like a girl. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: Xanatos
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 13:36
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Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 14:16
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Normally, I don't much appreciate any kind of metal. I find it boring and soulless and because it's got a prog prefix doesn't make it any more interesting. However; I like some Pain of Salvation now and then and was surprised to find that PA has classified them as prog metal. Conclusion; never say never. |
Posted By: Languagegeek
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 15:08
| I used to listen to a few bands like Tool, and enjoyed Metallica back in the pre-Justice for all days. I haven't given any of this a listen in 15 or more years. Why? I think it's because I'm a genuinely happy guy who blissfully ignores the idiocies of the world instead of getting righteously p.o.'ed about them like I used to. These days, I'm completely into Krautrock, Canterbury, Psychedelic, Zeuhl: more philosophical and imaginative than aggressive and raw. The musicianship in prog metal might be superb, but to my ears it's a very monotonous ride both emotionally and musically. |
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 15:48
| I listen to quite a bit of metal, but some prog metal (and metal in general) can definitely sacrifice well-written music for technicality or anger. Also, there is a much smaller sonic range for the music if it is completely metal. It's a pretty confining genre actually, which can make it become repetitive. |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 17:18
This. Death metal has growls, black metal has screeches. Or the other way around. Nobody cares about that. -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 18:42
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I think what appeals to me about Alithia is that the subject matter is interesting. It's vocalist has a deep style and is neither particularly screechy or growly. Also the music is reasonably complex.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 19:44
Exactly. Metalcore has shouts, grindcore has pig squeels, death metal has growling, black metal has snarls/screeches.... mind boggling.  -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 20:29
Pretty good.
My biggest issue was that in the old days, the likes of Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Spooky Tooth, Black Sabbath and many of those hard bands, had one thing in common ... they were loud ... and I mean LOUD ... and in some cases, they were not very good in concert ... but it was all so lost in the loudness that ... along with people so ripped ... that it didn't matter.
Half of that music today would be considered pretentious and garbage and no one would notice it. But then, at that time, no one else was doing it, which made it look and appear impressive ... but wasn't.
What has survived from all those is one thing ... loudness ... and nothing else ... and all of these "metal" bands are simply not capable of doing something different and not loud ... and that kinda shows how much the band can do in their work ... and in the end they are not always capable of doing good work.
There is one issue here ... if Petrucci (Dream Theater) was playing a violin everyone would say that he's amazing and top of the stratosphere! ... But he's playing an electric guitar ... and because it's hard and loud ... it's "metal". And after a while, one wonders where the sensitivity and the feeling is and the finger dexterity stops in order to play music, not just notes! The very good example is how he blended really well with an orchestra ... but when all he does is go super loud and the rest of the band doesn't exist and he is just thrashing his strings ... I question the musicianship behind it all. And the desire to get something across other than loudness and noise!
In general, there is nothing wrong with "metal" ... but hearing the same thing yet again does get boring once in a while ... specially when the majority of singers aren't even that good!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 21:23
Because it's overrated. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 22:11
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^LOL All we need now is someone to say "haytaz gona h8!" ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 22:37
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Couple reasons. I'm going to reat it as why people don't like metal in general very much: 1) Most bands take themselves way too seriously when their lyrics are just plain cheesy and laughable. They should be laughing about it. But sometimes they and the fans take slaying dragons really seriously. 2) The lyrics are often really pretentious or really cheesy. I like Pain of Salvation because most of the time Gildenlocks keeps the lyrics personal, interpersonal, and relatable. other times you get "The Dark Eternal Night" or some philosophical crap. No thanks. Artists aren't usually the go-to guys for philosophy. 3) Solos. "Hey cool riff...Nice solo, man! Oh hey here's another on--oh wait why are you starting another one that one wasn't even ove---OH DAMMIT NOT AGAIN." 4) A lot of bands couldn't come up with a compelling melody to save their life. And I mean compelling in a personal way to me. Ark's a fine example. Utterly generic in every way. Hell I'd take DT's "Another Day" over anything like that. Least I can remember Another Day after the fact. 5) Growling can be ok. Usually not. Hoarse whispers (Agalloch)...even less so. Everything else that's not clean is always terrible (personal opinion). 6) Black metal has got to be one of the most pathetic and laughable musical cultures ever. it's only good for making fun of. My, opinion, etc. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 22:55
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Off topic but, stonebeard, you have the best sig ever! Made me ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 22:59
It was from the blog spam like 30 minutes ago. Comedic gold I tells ya. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: December 06 2010 at 23:14
Yep! Love those stories or miscellaneous information texts with ugg boots and replica sunglasses links randomly placed in the text - type blog spam posts. Comedic gold it certainly is! ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 09:15
I think you've just successfully answered a question I've often had in my head... Why don't I personally like metal?
It makes sense now!
All the musical elements of metal are chlichéd to the point where there is little originality left within the genre, and the seeming refusal to incoporate other styles means said grunts and crashing moments are turned to 100%, 100% of the time........
 Of course there are exceptions............. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 11:09
I have a different take on this. I rarely relate to personal lyrics in metal because the musicianship is rarely able to evoke the nuance that may be required to convey more subtle emotions that go with personal lyrics. As I like to say, a metal song could just as well be about Valhalla or Satan or love and it would all sound essentially the same - chugga chugga thud thud! I think metal music is best suited to project anger or aggression, which may take either Satanic or anti-social or political hues depending on the band. Yes, that's not exactly a diverse palate, but metal is meant to serve a relatively narrow band of expressions. Writing on topics not usually dealt with in metal doesn't by itself solve the problem. I think Gildenlow does try to overcome that by using a lot of R&B influence in his music but his R&B based singing is not as convincing as his metal singing, so I am not completely satisfied. I do commend PoS's efforts to surmount the problem though.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 00:55
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I've never been a big fan of metal at all.....but Blotted Science is just so badass. And I was satisfied when listening to them because the horrible vocals I was expecting to come in never came. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 15:11
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I have a problem with music which is competitive in nature- -it's music, not sport. Also, I prefer music to have sense of humour. I don't mind lyrics about dark themes at all: gore, terror, war, death, fear, nightmare, utterly repulsive perversions. Everything that could shock a listener is welcome. But I prefer well-crafted subtlety over formulaic juvenilia. ------------- |
Posted By: ferush
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 15:43
| There is only one word to describe it: Prejudices and it's not a matter of continents or regions. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 19:40
Yeah, right, I suppose there's absolutely nothing wrong with ANY prog metal music, it's only the listeners who are incurably prejudiced and unfair. |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 20:24
Ay, that's sort of what I was thinking. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Anirml
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 20:36
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Prog metal doesn't surprise me. It has become a sport where creativity is less important.
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 23:58
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They don't like the sound it makes. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 09 2010 at 14:41
Are you suggesting that all musicians out there are uneducated and stupid and could not possibly have one iota of philosophy in their work? If I have an issue with it, is that a lot of these lyrics are not intelligent enough, and many of these people are just writing "songs" yet again ... and they do not have the cultural and schooling, to do anything more than just another rock'n'roll song ...
But to suggest that some folks can not create anything with it ... is sad ... and is a gross generalization. There are very good writers out there, in all facets of music ... and many times they are way more philosophical than most stuff you read in the class at your local pissing hole ... ooooppppsss ... school! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 17:10
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It's the noise--the volume--the blasting apart of the space between notes that help define beauty in music. I need those spaces, room for the subtleties and incidentals to be able to make themselves heard. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Mr. Maestro
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 22:31
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Some people just don't like metal, period. I'm not one of them, but I know people who cannot find heavy riffage, intense vocals, grim lyrics, and self-indulgent instrumental work appealing no matter how progressive it is. ------------- "I am the one who crossed through space...or stayed where I was...or didn't exist in the first place...." |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 15 2010 at 22:43
I'm not suggesting that all musicians out there are uneducated enough to make philosophically-themed works, but I am directly telling you most musicians who try better do it from an artistic and purposefully whimsical standpoint, because they just plain don't have the philosophical balls to take the hard-nosed approach and do it right.  Peter Hammill is sometimes an exception. There is no reason why music and philosophy can't intermingle, but in my perspective philosophy needs time and room to breath, and lyrics almost always only make a shallow cut. I don't really know what institution you learned at, if you did, but no musician ever ever ever come close to being as good a philosopher than...proactically any well-known and popular philosopher. You probably only say that because you're upset I called artists out on their poncing around topics they can't hope to compare to in song format. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: parapet
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 04:14
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I actually like prog metal in a way but more when prog rock bands include some of it in their style, but i think that people who like prog music don't like prog metal because very often it's not sincere enough and is more about technique and showing personal skills on instrument. When I listen some longer prog metal songs i have sense that they did it only to have a very long song not because they really needed long track to express sth. It can be quiet empty and lack feeling as well as atmosphere... this is why, i think ------------- SMART preachers of our doom Telling us there is no room. Not enough for all mankind And the seas of time are running dry. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 10:39
Out of curiosity, are there prog metal bands that are as progressive in every sense of the word as Magma or Can? Let's face it, by prog rock standards, it is indeed not all that progressive and it is generally in comparison to pure metal that prog metal is called, well, progressive. That is another debate by itself but there's not much, if any, prog metal I could call as progressive as those bands or KC or Gentle Giant, so on and so forth.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 10:45
mosh has a perennial problem of taking words out of context, perhaps conveniently so as to enable him to go on his favourite rant against prog rock listeners.
Without commenting on a musician's understanding of philosophy, I would suggest that nevertheless a philosophically oriented approach, particularly if (like in prog metal) it is too verbose, can suffocate the music and divert attention from it. I prefer lyrics that communicate the emotion of the music. My favourite pieces of lyric writing aren't even all that profound. Something like Babylon Sisters brilliantly conveys the mood being built up in the music and, especially, is a lot of fun to sing. Writing lyrics for a song is a whole different ballgame from understanding of poetry or philosophy, even if all those may help. |
Posted By: Rush77
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 13:48
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To me, it was an interesting idea combining progressive music with heavy metal but the end result just didnt catch me. to me u can create a lot more interesting ideas and concepts with rock that u cant with metal. i like bands like Dream Theater Queensryche and Spock's Beard but most of the time it doesnt interest me. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 22 2010 at 14:48
It's not that dry or simple.
My generation, the one that invented "progressive" music and many other things, is by far one of the best when it comes to "philosophy" and many other things.
The issue is, that we think that "philosophy" has to be all in words. That it can never come in an instrument. That it can never come with a composer. That it can never come with King Crimson ... and in my way of thinking that is quite incorrect.
Times change, And different medias and mediums come around and bring out "philosophy" differently ... than a written book ... or as I used to say to a lot of new age folks ... new age always had to come by the CD, or the book or the crystal ... never by someone right in front of you saying hello or writing an article.
In my book, the likes of Daevid Allen, Vangelis, Mike Oldfield, Ryuichi Sakamoto, are the best "philosophers" of the past 50 years ... and I might add a couple of film makers like Jean Luc Godard to that mix, but to say that nothing else out there is not ... scares me!
It's the best representation of philosophy ever done ... except that it was never done like that before or "recorded".
Now it is!
Your call!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 08:31
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For me its not the Loudness or Heavyness, its the style.
I like experimental music, like Mars Volta, Tool. Pain of Salvation
But i get faster tired of the more straight forvard Metal, like Steve Vai, Dream T, Ayreon.
So personaly i would descripe it like, if its mainly a mix of "Yes" inspired Symphonic's and Metal, its not my favorite.
But if its more leaning against an Eclectic Prog / Metal mix, im in. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: trackstoni
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 11:30
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Simply cause i don't like Metal , i like Golden & Platinum stuff ! ------------- Tracking Tracks of Rock |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 12:35
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Because there are only two kinds of music: Country and Western.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:02
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Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:05
What does this image mean? |
Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:31
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Posted By: The_Jester
Date Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:32
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Because what I heard of prog metal is mostly metal with some arrangements. I had no chance to listen to something else than prog metal that looks entirely like pure metal with sounds of the 80's. ------------- La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle! - Napoléon Bonaparte |
Posted By: PinkFloydrulez
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 17:07
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Most of it is just.... lame, boring, cheesy, overdone. and I love metal. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/PinkFloydrulez http://rateyourmusic.com/~pfr_77 |
Posted By: Aragon
Date Posted: March 20 2011 at 10:14
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I was used to listen in 1995-2004 a few bands like Dream Theather, Nighwish, and Stratovarious, and other power Metal band, because i miss so much the sound and the keyboards of the '80, and in those band that sound was present, although a bit much heavier. So it's true that the Prog Metal and Power Metal has their influences on the '80 style of pop metal with the symphonic keyboards, but since 6 years i hate prog metal because is very very boring and it's calculated. That i hate more of prog metal is the heavy riffage of guitar and the speedy of the solo. Maybe only Queensryche was a good way to do prog Metal! |
Posted By: Repner
Date Posted: March 20 2011 at 12:27
Fair enough, but aren't these usually peoples complaints about prog rock in general? ------------- 
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Posted By: MoodyRush
Date Posted: March 27 2011 at 14:52
| I haven't checked out too much prog metal yet, including a Dream Theater album, and the qualm I have with that album is that the music gets very overblown and pretensious and technical. Nothing wrong with those things, I do sorta like Scenes from a Memory. Opeth is pretty cool, very moody and skilled as well. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 14:34
Sad ... that music has to be "specified" as to what it is and can be ... specially when the 20th century was almost exclusively about breaking conventions ...
Intense vocals, has nothing to do with "metal" any more than it does with folk ... or anything else ... and I would like to suggest you sit and listen to Fairport Convention's song "One More Chance", and then listen to the original demo with Sandy Denny on piano only ... on the remastered CD, and then realize ... she was gone two weeks later ... and did not have a chance ... and that haunting voice in that song is almost prophetic ... and you don't need to scream to get it across, except some idiots don't know the difference between being themselves and having to do something for money and an audience only.
Grim lyrics ... yeah, like one can take seriously Rob Zombie or Marylin Manson or the many copies that are considered "Prog" something or other. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:34
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Because if it's not Scottish, it's crrrrap?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:48
I don't like prog metal, and it has nothing to do with the heavy part; I like it heavy. I dislike the double bass-drumming that usually is part of prog metal. Also prog metal usually is just heavy and nothing else; harmonically it is rather conventional, symphonic almost, and I am more into the weird stuff. If they were heavy with lots of dissonances and refrained from the double bass-drumming I would be fine with it. Actually I think double-bass drumming rather reduces the heaviness instead of adding to it, simply because you lose means of accentuation. If there is bass drum on almost any beat it is the same as if there is bass drum on no beat at all.; it is the accentuation which makes it heavy. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: silcir
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:53
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i like some minor quantities of prog metal. i think i still could listen to DT's awake without stopping it (well, maybe not). |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 28 2011 at 16:04
Yep, perceptive post. There's a lot of prog metal that appears to be frightened of leaving any spaces between the notes (so the music doesn't breathe) e.g. ELP sound like 3 great swordsmen while DT sound like any old machine gunners etc -------------
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Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 00:26
| ELP sucks though. |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 03:39
------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 05:36
Very well said, sir. Yes, long pieces in particular work better with spaces. Also, prog metal abhors reinforcement but if I don't know how exactly the song got from point A to B, it's not very interesting just listening to connecting-the-dots sections. Not that reinforcement by itself would solve the problem and in a metal context, it would bring on its own set of problems. I still feel the no.1 problem is prog metal songwriters are loath to venture away from 80s metal tones, which I am not sure lend themselves to a certain looseness that makes prog rock (good prog rock, that is!) appealing. Black Sabbath on Sabotage were a lot more nimble than many of the melodic prog metal bands are able to be and that at least partly has to do with the tones (also to do with their predominant blues influences, possibly). |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 05:59
It is also worth adding that a lot of prog rock from the 70s actually was heavy, be it KC's Larks/Red, Genesis's Return of the Giant Hogweed or Gentle Giant's Pantagruel's Nativity. Even Tarkus, actually. Heavy in the true sense of the word. Heavy is not the monopoly of 80s metal tonality. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 06:15
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I like some Prog Metal....just like I like some Metal. There is no genre here I think I can absolutely say I don't like. I would say with PM though that if you aren't keen on metal...then PM is unlikely to be your bag. The reason I like Prog Metal...well it was the genre I was always waiting for to a degree. I liked the sound of metal but it didn't have enough "bits" for me. I'm not saying a straightforward metal song doesn't do the business mind. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:08
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Really it's the entire metal genre that I dislike a majority of the time. It's just impossible to take seriously, way too repetitive, and the whole shred god approach to music (John Petrucci's playing is technically inclined, but is about as emotional as those joke videos such as "Eric Clapton Shreds", or "BB King Shreds") couldn't be more obnoxious or lacking in emotion. I like Blotted Science a lot, but that is because they aren't absurdly repetitive, and the music actually has DYNAMICS, rather than starting heavy and endlessly cycling through riffs til it's done. And to me screaming vocals are, once again, impossible to take seriously. And since somebody brought it up, I do also dislike the really cliche' double bassing. Seriously, how many songs can have a generic 4/4 beat with 2 and 4 being accented and consistent sixteenth note double bass? Way too many. So to sum it up, showy playing at the expense of originality/emotion, screaming vocals, and a lack of variety.
------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:22
Agreed!!! This is how I feel about metal, either considered prog or not. |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:24
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I don't really like metal so I doubt I'd like Prog Metal..... I don't like Prog because it's progressive, I like it because it sounds nice. So whether this metal is progressive, regressive, or obsessive, it's still "metallic". I don't mind heavy or dark music, but metal just has a sound to it that I can't take seriously, because, as so many have said, the focus seems to be on getting that thick, suffocating sound. You can instantly recognise a metal song...... and it's not because of the volume or guitar presence, it's because of the feeling (or lack of). Whenever there are keyboards present they seem to be cheesy 90's textural things....... a complete turn off (if I wasn't already turned off by the distortion, echo, reverb and crunch all turned up to 100%)........ ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:28
| I stay away from anything labeled metal. I usually find it boring and irritating. I like well-timed hooks, natural progression, and strong emphasis on all parts of the rhythm (including the spaces). Overall I don't want a noise blast, I want a sort of ethereal building up - Metal doesn't seem to have that. |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:35
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Interesting question, as it sort of applies to me (classic Prog Metal is indeed one of my least favorite metals). First things that come to mind are cheesiness, keyboard bombast, cliché high-pitched vocals, pointless virtuosity and shredding, and cheesiness. No, don't like it So how did I end up in the metal team exactly?  |
Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 13:47
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I'm with you there 100%, Karl. That vanilla prog metal stuff is usually not for me. Also, whoever said that metal has no feeling or emotion is the wrongest of wrong. -------------  
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 14:37
Same ...
My main concern is that if someone is concerned that this or that is "metal", then we're not listening to the music ... and that is not (at all) the reasoning of a progressive thinker and appreciat'or! (is there such a word?) ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 15:29
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I like a lot of prog metal. I find there are a lot of new bands in this area in the past 2 yrs, so it gives me the opportunity to do more exploration within the Metal category in general.
Some of the material is very interesting.....it keeps my attention, for example material by O.S.I. especially Blood. Bands like Canvas Solaris are interesting, some say..."its the same thing over and over..." I guess I listen harder and don't see it that way.
I think for me it comes from being a longtime fan of Iron Maiden and Saxon. -------------   
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Posted By: YourNumber1Fan
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 20:54
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Its not in the music or the type of music that an artist produces. It all boils down to personal preferences. I like prog. No doubt. I would listen to all DT songs. Per album. Up until Black Clouds and Silver Linings. Nothing against Mike Mangini but I like Portnoy. I followed his (very) strange journey, jumping in and out of many bands from Adrenaline Mob to The Winery Dogs (new album coming soon) to Flying Colors and some of his side projects. I'm also starting to develop a taste for Spock's Beard. So yeah. You can't force others to like what you like, and vice versa.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 17 2015 at 21:08
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Prog Metal actually rekindled my appreciation for regular (non prog) metal. The Lord works in mysterious ways. |