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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: March 21 2011 at 01:09
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Government is only as good as the people in it, so this question is impossible to answer.
Good people easily abuse power when they get it so this statement fails. Again, itīs not about the players but about the game.
I agree with Henry (for once) The millions of good people who ever attained power and behaved responsibly thereafter all have at least one thing in common. No-one's ever heard of them and no-one writes about them. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion: Person + Power = Evil Person (jeez)
Two things:
1) History seems to agree with me.
2) If we define "evil" as "abusig power to advance his own interests" then usually YES. If we take "evil" as I think you take it as necessarily a cold-blooded murdering tyrant, then no, but only not necessarily. Cases still abound of this type of "evil".
Government is only as good as the people in it, so this question is impossible to answer.
Good people easily abuse power when they get it so this statement fails. Again, itīs not about the players but about the game.
I agree with Henry (for once) The millions of good people who ever attained power and behaved responsibly thereafter all have at least one thing in common. No-one's ever heard of them and no-one writes about them. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion: Person + Power = Evil Person (jeez)
Two things:
1) History seems to agree with me.
2) If we define "evil" as "abusig power to advance his own interests" then usually YES. If we take "evil" as I think you take it as necessarily a cold-blooded murdering tyrant, then no, but only not necessarily. Cases still abound of this type of "evil".
1) Which is precisely the error that I'm highlighting in red (The history of those quiet unassuming men who oversee accord, stability and equilibrium is NOT a spectator sport) - for every Stalin, Hitler, PolPot, Mussolini, Ghadaffi, Hussein, Amin et al there are MILLIONS of individuals who have steered their nations to unspectacular, steady and peace loving progress without recourse to the abuses of power exercised by those historians deem sufficiently demonic enough to earn royalties. 2) I meant both types but yes, power can corrupt in much the same way as any form of dishonesty can, be it in the Public or Private sectors, rich or poor.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: March 21 2011 at 12:36
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Government is only as good as the people in it, so this question is impossible to answer.
Good people easily abuse power when they get it so this statement fails. Again, itīs not about the players but about the game.
I agree with Henry (for once) The millions of good people who ever attained power and behaved responsibly thereafter all have at least one thing in common. No-one's ever heard of them and no-one writes about them. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion: Person + Power = Evil Person (jeez)
Two things:
1) History seems to agree with me.
2) If we define "evil" as "abusig power to advance his own interests" then usually YES. If we take "evil" as I think you take it as necessarily a cold-blooded murdering tyrant, then no, but only not necessarily. Cases still abound of this type of "evil".
1) Which is precisely the error that I'm highlighting in red (The history of those quiet unassuming men who oversee accord, stability and equilibrium is NOT a spectator sport) - for every Stalin, Hitler, PolPot, Mussolini, Ghadaffi, Hussein, Amin et al there are MILLIONS of individuals who have steered their nations to unspectacular, steady and peace loving progress without recourse to the abuses of power exercised by those historians deem sufficiently demonic enough to earn royalties. 2) I meant both types but yes, power can corrupt in much the same way as any form of dishonesty can, be it in the Public or Private sectors, rich or poor.
1) I'm not just talking about the Hitlers, Stalins and the sort... The poll is about "the government", not about the rulers themselves. Even if a virtuous person is at the top of government, it's usually difficult to stop others less virtuous from being in his team (as I have experienced plenty in my country). Government as an entity made of more than one person corrupts, that's it.
2) Power can corrupt for sure, in both sectors. But only the public sector has the law and force on its side. And for the private sector to abuse power, it usually is with the public sector's help...
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
Posted: March 21 2011 at 12:44
The T wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Government is only as good as the people in it, so this question is impossible to answer.
Good people easily abuse power when they get it so this statement fails. Again, itīs not about the players but about the game.
I agree with Henry (for once) The millions of good people who ever attained power and behaved responsibly thereafter all have at least one thing in common. No-one's ever heard of them and no-one writes about them. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion: Person + Power = Evil Person (jeez)
Two things:
1) History seems to agree with me.
2) If we define "evil" as "abusig power to advance his own interests" then usually YES. If we take "evil" as I think you take it as necessarily a cold-blooded murdering tyrant, then no, but only not necessarily. Cases still abound of this type of "evil".
1) Which is precisely the error that I'm highlighting in red (The history of those quiet unassuming men who oversee accord, stability and equilibrium is NOT a spectator sport) - for every Stalin, Hitler, PolPot, Mussolini, Ghadaffi, Hussein, Amin et al there are MILLIONS of individuals who have steered their nations to unspectacular, steady and peace loving progress without recourse to the abuses of power exercised by those historians deem sufficiently demonic enough to earn royalties. 2) I meant both types but yes, power can corrupt in much the same way as any form of dishonesty can, be it in the Public or Private sectors, rich or poor.
1) I'm not just talking about the Hitlers, Stalins and the sort... The poll is about "the government", not about the rulers themselves. Even if a virtuous person is at the top of government, it's usually difficult to stop others less virtuous from being in his team (as I have experienced plenty in my country). Government as an entity made of more than one person corrupts, that's it.
2) Power can corrupt for sure, in both sectors. But only the public sector has the law and force on its side. And for the private sector to abuse power, it usually is with the public sector's help...
People have written very extensively about supposedly responsible and benevolent rulers. They turn out to be the worst ones very often. Look at some of the "humanitarian" presidents in US history: Wilson, FDR, Lincoln. Their images portray them as great champions, but they're complete brutes.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: March 21 2011 at 12:54
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
Government is only as good as the people in it, so this question is impossible to answer.
Good people easily abuse power when they get it so this statement fails. Again, itīs not about the players but about the game.
I agree with Henry (for once) The millions of good people who ever attained power and behaved responsibly thereafter all have at least one thing in common. No-one's ever heard of them and no-one writes about them. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion: Person + Power = Evil Person (jeez)
Two things:
1) History seems to agree with me.
2) If we define "evil" as "abusig power to advance his own interests" then usually YES. If we take "evil" as I think you take it as necessarily a cold-blooded murdering tyrant, then no, but only not necessarily. Cases still abound of this type of "evil".
1) Which is precisely the error that I'm highlighting in red (The history of those quiet unassuming men who oversee accord, stability and equilibrium is NOT a spectator sport) - for every Stalin, Hitler, PolPot, Mussolini, Ghadaffi, Hussein, Amin et al there are MILLIONS of individuals who have steered their nations to unspectacular, steady and peace loving progress without recourse to the abuses of power exercised by those historians deem sufficiently demonic enough to earn royalties. 2) I meant both types but yes, power can corrupt in much the same way as any form of dishonesty can, be it in the Public or Private sectors, rich or poor.
1) I'm not just talking about the Hitlers, Stalins and the sort... The poll is about "the government", not about the rulers themselves. Even if a virtuous person is at the top of government, it's usually difficult to stop others less virtuous from being in his team (as I have experienced plenty in my country). Government as an entity made of more than one person corrupts, that's it.
2) Power can corrupt for sure, in both sectors. But only the public sector has the law and force on its side. And for the private sector to abuse power, it usually is with the public sector's help...
People have written very extensively about supposedly responsible and benevolent rulers. They turn out to be the worst ones very often. Look at some of the "humanitarian" presidents in US history: Wilson, FDR, Lincoln. Their images portray them as great champions, but they're complete brutes.
Yes. Reading more about history you learn they used force on people much more than could be imagined, and started many of the programs which have eroded freedom...
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ExittheLemming wrote:
