thoughts on the Holocaust

CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Hanyou wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: I was thinking about that one. The Japanese got a pretty raw deal in WWII also. As did the Chinese, from the Japanese. People always forget to mention that one. if anything, the Japanese still need some serious bgeating after what thet done in East Asia between 1910 and 1945. Nah I think the two atom bombs kind of makes it even. I disagree.

Well I think the fact that everyone who committed the crimes is either dead, or will be dead in ten years, means that you don't need to hold a grudge against the rest of Japan that had nothing to do with the murders.

Spaniards did something almost as horrible as killing all natives with my region or origin's natives: they enslaved them and made them lost all their identity and self-respect. They raped their women and exploited their husbands. The holocaust of the Andean Indian was a horrible event in history.  

^Yes. That's why I react when only one of them seems to be of any importance for people.. 

Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Hanyou wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: I was thinking about that one. The Japanese got a pretty raw deal in WWII also. As did the Chinese, from the Japanese. People always forget to mention that one. if anything, the Japanese still need some serious bgeating after what thet done in East Asia between 1910 and 1945. Nah I think the two atom bombs kind of makes it even. I disagree. Well I think the fact that everyone who committed the crimes is either dead, or will be dead in ten years, means that you don't need to hold a grudge against the rest of Japan that had nothing to do with the murders.

i can if the government denies that it all happened (to the point of completelly omittion or simply lying about what happened in schoolbooks and prohibiting students for researching about it) and if the royal family and the government refuse to openly and publicly apoligize for what happened, much like Italy and (specially) Germany did.

CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Hanyou wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: I was thinking about that one. The Japanese got a pretty raw deal in WWII also. As did the Chinese, from the Japanese. People always forget to mention that one. if anything, the Japanese still need some serious bgeating after what thet done in East Asia between 1910 and 1945. Nah I think the two atom bombs kind of makes it even. I disagree. Well I think the fact that everyone who committed the crimes is either dead, or will be dead in ten years, means that you don't need to hold a grudge against the rest of Japan that had nothing to do with the murders. i can if the government denies that it all happened (to the point of completelly omittion or simply lying about what happened in schoolbooks and prohibiting students for researching about it) and if the royal family and the government refuse to openly and publicly apoligize for what happened, much like Italy and (specially) Germany did.

CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: CCVP wrote: Hanyou wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: I was thinking about that one. The Japanese got a pretty raw deal in WWII also. As did the Chinese, from the Japanese. People always forget to mention that one. if anything, the Japanese still need some serious bgeating after what thet done in East Asia between 1910 and 1945. Nah I think the two atom bombs kind of makes it even. I disagree. Well I think the fact that everyone who committed the crimes is either dead, or will be dead in ten years, means that you don't need to hold a grudge against the rest of Japan that had nothing to do with the murders. i can if the government denies that it all happened (to the point of completelly omittion or simply lying about what happened in schoolbooks and prohibiting students for researching about it) and if the royal family and the government refuse to openly and publicly apoligize for what happened, much like Italy and (specially) Germany did.

the current japanese government is in no way related to the government of WWII the only similarity is the language and geographic location. they can hardly be considered the same nation the same way that your nations. an apology from the current japanese government would not really mean a  hell of alot.

The T wrote: Key word: governments. They should apologize. Why would the people? Why would you hold anything against the people? Only if you think people are government and viceversa.

Since Japan is a democracy and that Japanese citizens vote for their government... And it's well known that a lot of people in Japan (I write : "A lot", not the majority) deny what happened during the WWII in Korea, China, Indochina and any territory occupied by the Japanese army.

Of course, when voting for someone, you vote for his general political program, not for his/her views on history.

In France, we have had decades of debates about Vichy and the responsibility of France in the Shoah - an "inheritance" that none of the presidents (Coty, De Gaulle, Giscard d'Estaing, Mitterand) wanted to recognize until Chirac in 1995.
A distinction was made between the French State of Vichy and the French Republic, two distinct institutions, two distinct political regimes.
Yet, from a historical point of view, it appeared as a "trick": after all, Pétain got the full powers thanks to the deputees elected before the war, and some "collabos" worked for the Republic after the war...
But, just because the presidents were reluctant to say that France had to make sincere apologies for what happened between 1940 and 1945, it wouldn't mean that everyone in France thought the same thing and refused to acknowledge a collective fault (but the fact that France was an occupied country and the "mythology" of the Resistance may have made things more difficult).

What disturbs me is that, nowadays, there's a strong tendency among some political/media groups to think that France and other European countries should stop making apologies, especially towards former colonies, despite of the many wars and violences that happened in some colonial territories.
For some reason, in France, it's okay to acknowledge the Armenian genocide (and, while I'm not opposed to the inclusion of Turkey in European Union, I agree to the definition of these massacres as a genocide), but it's not okay to say that crime wars happened in the Algerian war (1954-1962), the Indochinese war (1946-1954) or even in Madagascar (the repression of the 1946 riots made 100 000 dead!)

The problem is that the conservative party (UMP, the first party in number of electors and members) governing France today tends to go further and further towards this ideological direction, even trying to pass a law claiming the "positive sides of colonization"!!!
And, yet, French citizens seem not to be very upset by such declarations...

It is a fairly modern notion that any tribe, country, or state would apologize for their warfare, raping, and pillaging.

That was unneeded.

Yes if Wikipedia can blackout I can bump my threads. Freedom of speech!