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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 07:22
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Building a good sytem is both simple and complicated.

First you have to have only musical components which is not that simple knowing the profusion of brands but i'm here to help for that.

Then you have to optimize your system on three levels:

- A minimum of quality cables (interconnect and speakers cable's, in biwire mode or double cable if possible).

- Work on power: rspect power phase, installation of dedicated power lines, at least the CD (if CD there is)must be separated from the rest. Good power cables are needed as we live in very polluted places (waves). The next step is to add good power filters (not easy to find, but what an improvment).

- Work on vibration control: quality furniture, accessories to place under the components which affect dramatically the device's performance.
Stands or furniture filled with sand, weights on subwoofers...


It's just a rough idea of the improvments necessary to make a system work a minimum and that's why it's very rare to hear something making music. But it exists and it's not at all a matter of price.

Nothing is easy

Do you have any scientific evidence that any of that is truly *required* in order to have a great listening experience?
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 08:15
No since measures don't reflect that. But all people that listened
to my system agree that it's the best that they have ever heard

I've had a look at your blog...if you want to loose weight, you have
to follow the blood group diet, one of the only diet which works and it's purely scientific (very interesting theory). At least, give it a try for one month.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 09:22
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL 


 

 

Audio equipment is now likened to fermented grape juice Ermm since both are laced with hyperbole and superlatives I guess it holds some value. Tongue



You prefer a comparison with coca cola or another soda of your choice?
Maybe it'll speak to you better?
Excuse me? What do you mean by that exactly? Shocked
 
But, no. All such comparisons, when they are not being elitist and insulting, are stupid and meaningless. Someone could drink exclusively Château Mouton-Rothschild, drive a Bugatti Veyron, and prefer Pepsi over Coke and still think a Phillips music centre is the height of perfection in audio reproduction - yet sure as eggs is eggs such a person would buy a Clearaudio Statement Turntable to play his vinyl copy of Love Over Gold because it looks good in his penthouse flat and for no other reason.
 
I know you are trying to say that people's tastes are different, but you are saying it in such a way to imply that there is good taste and bad, and that is ego-flattering eliteism.
 
If you want to claim that all valve amps are two times better than all solid-state amps then form a controlled and valid comparison under blind conditions that produces tangible results and prove it. Compare a Separo se88i with a Krell S-300i and prove it, or compare a NAD with a Jolida if you prefer, or any combination thereof, but back the statement up with actual comparisons, not glib generalisations.
 
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oliverstoned View Drop Down
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Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 10:01


Krell is over rated...Mark Levinson's way better

I'd not even compare tube and solid state, i already know the result.

I'd compare this Bryston solid state power amp Vs this other one for low

and so on with tube
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 10:19
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Building a good sytem is both simple and complicated.

First you have to have only musical components which is not that simple knowing the profusion of brands but i'm here to help for that.
What is this? I have asked before and got no answer.

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


Then you have to optimize your system on three levels:

- A minimum of quality cables (interconnect and speakers cable's, in biwire mode or double cable if possible).
Validity? Cables carry the information from source to destination - the matching of source and destination is far more important than the cables that connect them - past a certain level of screening and build quality you enter into the realm of dimminshing returns. At audio frequencies and currents there is no differenece between various conductors used in audio interconnects. Quality cables are better than the $5 cables from Amazon, but only from the quality of the connectors themselves and not from the cables used.
 
Bi-wire is not an inter-connection method but a method of driving speakers from an external crossover/power amps (bi-amp) - if the crossovers are contained in the speakers and the amp is common then the improvement is psychosomatic.
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


- Work on power: rspect power phase, installation of dedicated power lines, at least the CD (if CD there is)must be separated from the rest. Good power cables are needed as we live in very polluted places (waves). The next step is to add good power filters (not easy to find, but what an improvment).
What do you mean by power phase?
 
All hi-fi manufacturers spend as much on the design and build of their power supplies as they do on the audio-path circuits - they are designed to convert 50Hz mains into the various DC supplies required by the electronics and include all the filtering amd RF suppresion that is needed to ensure a clean DC supply.
 
What are the differences between good power cables to standard power cables precisely? Since this, on a global manufacturing scale, is an extremely simple change for all manufacturers to make why don't they all supply them as standard?
 
Why should the CD be powered seperately and how do you mean seperately? Run an extension cable from your neighbour's house?
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


- Work on vibration control: quality furniture, accessories to place under the components which affect dramatically the device's performance.
Stands or furniture filled with sand, weights on subwoofers...
This I agree on (to a degree). Acoustic isolation is easily achieved in speakers and turntables, however acoustic pick-up in solid-state and digital equipment is to all intents and purposes impossible so no point in isolating those for any reason other than it makes you happy.
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


It's just a rough idea of the improvments necessary to make a system work a minimum and that's why it's very rare to hear something making music. But it exists and it's not at all a matter of price.

Nothing is easy
Says you. Wink
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 10:30
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

No since measures don't reflect that. But all people that listened
to my system agree that it's the best that they have ever heard 

I'm sure that your system sounds very, very good - that was never the issue.

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


I've had a look at your blog...if you want to loose weight, you have
to follow the blood group diet, one of the only diet which works and it's purely scientific (very interesting theory). At least, give it a try for one month.

Wow. First of all, I'm glad you checked out my blog. As far as the blood group diet is concerned, I think it's completely unscientific. Sure, they try to sell it as scientific, but consider this simple line of thought:

The blood group diet is based on the assumption that the different blood groups evolved in the not so distant past when our ancestors shifted from a meat based diet to a plant based diet - typically 10,000 years BCE is mentioned as the time when agriculture was "invented". According to the blood group diet, people with older blood groups do better on high meat diets, while people with younger blood groups do better on high plant diets. So far so good - but in fact blood groups are *much* older than that. We're talking about millions of years, not tens of thousands of years. 

Here's some more in depth info:

http://www.skepdic.com/bloodtypediet.html

An excerpt:

Peter D'Adamo's reasoning is based on speculative inferences from such "facts" as that type O is the oldest blood type. It isn't. A is the oldest blood type. Studies in humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos show that alleles coding for blood type A are the most ancient version of the ABO blood group. This trait was shared prior to the evolutionary split between chimpanzees and hominids five to six million years ago. B blood type split from A about 3.5 million years ago and O blood type split from A about 2.5 million years ago. From this error regarding the age of type O, D'Adamo reasons that people with type O blood should eat the kind of diet the earliest humans ate: one rich in fat and protein.

"Group A [D'Adamo erroneously claims] is the second oldest blood group, appearing around 25,000 - 15,000 B.C., when larger human settlements first appeared as farming developed."* From this "fact," D'Adamo infers that people with type A blood should eat their veggies.




Edited by Mr ProgFreak - March 04 2011 at 10:30
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 10:30
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:



Krell is over rated...Mark Levinson's way better
I don't know, I've not heard either to have an opinion either way.
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:


I'd not even compare tube and solid state, i already know the result.
So you have compared every tube system with every solid-state system and know this for sure. Cool Cool
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:




I'd compare this Bryston solid state power amp Vs this other one for low

and so on with tube
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Points: 17845 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 10:43

I would say that all of us feel we are listening to music on our "hi-fi" system, by that I mean if we have a simple setup like a receiver, CD player and maybe a turntable and good speakers. From there is where the discussions come from on quality, price, name brand, specs... and so on.

oliverstoned I know that you wanted to only discuss your definition of "hi-fi" on this thread but I doubt the majority of us have such a system.....Although I appreciate your intent, and it has made me look differently at what I might want to purchase, I just don't think most here will understand what you might be talking about.
As a kid I was fascinated with HIFI, I used to subscribe to High Fidelity magazine and would dream of the equipment I saw in the magazine.....One day making enough money to own some of that stuff!! Cry
 
Well...marriage, kids, cars, mortgage...food seemed to get in the way of me getting my "dream system". I still enjoy a good sounding system, but with age I have come to understand the value of MY money.
Maybe a valve amp is 10x better than solid state.......but at 10x the price I doubt I will ever plug one of those babies into my power strip at home. If I had nothing else to do with about US$15,000, I probably would do it, but it would end up being a cinema room so the whole family and friends could enjoy the setup.
 
I have a lot of vinyl, CDs, cassettes and even reel-reel tapes (I have a Pioneer RT909)......so a lot of media I need to reproduce at a value that makes sense for me....regardless if it is a bottle of US$6 red wine or a US$200 bottle of Chateau blah-blah..........if it sounds good to my ears then I have a good HIFI system.
 
Maybe I am partially off base here but my ears are the best measurement, more so than a page full of specs.....What does make sense to me is when someone like Dean explains partially what happens underneath the hood of these components........
 
What I have come away with is that I need to invest some money in cables.....I do believe the standard cables that came with my components and speakers can be improved on.
 
Have a good weekend !!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 11:04

The day the weight of interconnects hanging off the back of my NAD 6125 cassette deck caused it to tip over I realised I'd probably gone a little too far (they cost more than the deck too).

Seriosuly, if all you have is the thin cables and little plastic RCA plugs that came with your system then spending $20 on a pair of interconnects like QED or Monster and you won't be disapointed. You can spend more (much more) but with little to compare them too you'll be hard pushed to justify them.

Edited by Dean - March 04 2011 at 13:53
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Hawkwise View Drop Down
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Points: 4119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 11:26
i have come across people before who are in to listening to the equipment more than music , i always found that rather amusing .

Edited by Hawkwise - March 04 2011 at 11:27
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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down
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Points: 5195 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 12:13
^ Especially listening to good looking equipment.Wink 
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Points: 17845 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 12:30

This is a pretty turntable.........needledoctor.com US$150,000.00...that's all

 
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 13:44
But it could sound utterly dreadful and for $150K you wouldn't need that much encouragement to point out the emperor's new clothes, unless you were stood next to the proud owner of course... "Yes, it sounds magnificent your highness, the best I've ever heard, the finest in all the land."
 
However, personally I think it looks hideous - I'm sure the mechanics are perfection and the tracking of the tangential tone-arm trimmed to micrometer precision, I would wager the signal path is as pristine as it is physically possible to get - but that styling is butt-ugly...


Edited by Dean - March 04 2011 at 13:45
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Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2011 at 08:56
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The day the weight of interconnects hanging off the back of my NAD 6125 cassette deck caused it to tip over I realised I'd probably gone a little too far (they cost more than the deck too).


Seriosuly, if all you have is the thin cables and little plastic RCA plugs that came with your system then spending $20 on a pair of interconnects like QED or Monster and you won't be disapointed. You can spend more (much more) but with little to compare them too you'll be hard pushed to justify them.


QED yes, but not Monster, nor Audioquest.

Edited by oliverstoned - March 05 2011 at 09:03
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Points: 2888 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2011 at 02:48
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:



I precise that i'm myself the happy owner of a Prima Luna Prologue Four


Great to hear you went for the Prima Luna :) From memory this is a new acquisition since we last spoke (I used to post under Black Velvet here, I've got the prologue one myself). Have you done much playing around with different types of valves, besides the stock ones which came with it? (Also do you know what company makes the stock ones?) Just recently two of my 12AX7's and one 12AU7 blew, so in the interim a friend gave me some Golden Dragons to keep me in business till I decide what I want to replace them with. Been thinking maybe some Electro-Harmonix, but I'm not so knowledgeable about brands, quality et cetera. 
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Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2011 at 07:28
Hello Black velevet! I'm very happy to hear from you!

Yes we both are happy Prima luna owners now!

To reply you about valves, i'm playing a lot these days with New Old
Stock valves dating from the late 50's to late 70's from the following brands: Raytheon (excellent), Brimard (very close to Mullard), Dumont (very very good),
RCA, General electric, Siemens, Mazda, Philips ECG (all good as well); all in 12AX7 or 12AU7.
As you probably know, NOS EL34 are very expensive, that's why i'm still on classic Electro Harmonix which are quite good fortunatly.

To sum up, the difference between these NOS valves and the « basic » Electro harmonix
and/or Prima luna stock one is day and night IF your sytem’s transparent enough.


You also may add (cheap) silicon rings (two per tube), and it's a big improvment, whatever the tube BTW.




Edited by oliverstoned - March 08 2011 at 13:00
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Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2011 at 02:49
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

I'm sure I will need a sub with whatever I endup with, the room needs it.


I forgot an excellent subwoofer brand: Velodyne

http://www.velodyne.com/
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Points: 527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2011 at 02:50



Cool


Edited by TheClosing - March 27 2011 at 06:36
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Points: 6308 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2011 at 03:07
Is it yours?
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Points: 527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2011 at 03:24
No ... But these areWink: 


Looking to order the Little Dot 1+ later today. 
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