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zachfive View Drop Down
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Points: 770 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 21:23
Quote The Dregs, Kansas, Happy The Man and the first three albums by Utopia are the best examples not only of how well Americans could prog out, but add their own spin on existing schemes.

Happy the Man is an amazing band, my favorite American group crafty hands down :) 

Mr.Bungle also deserves to be mentioned. They aren't for everyone, but a great group that has surely inspired people both in and out of the USA.


Edited by zachfive - February 25 2011 at 21:24
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Points: 426 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 21:27
Did anyone forget about

RUSH?
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let prog reign View Drop Down
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Points: 256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 21:32
^ but they're Canadian aren't they?
Well maybe he's referring to North America...
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Points: 426 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 21:54
Right. OP didn't say anything about strictly U.S.A.

And if we are talking about North America, we can also add The Mars Volta to that mix.
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Points: 36572 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 22:43
Originally posted by Mushroom Sword Mushroom Sword wrote:

Right. OP didn't say anything about strictly U.S.A.

And if we are talking about North America, we can also add The Mars Volta to that mix.


In which case he didn\t specify North America either and it could refer to the Americas (North, Central, and South America), in which case I'd suggest Bubu from Argentina; however, I expect the OP means Prog hailing from the United States of America.
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Points: 11420 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 23:21
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

I think the issue here is that American's can't seem to do Symphonic Prog,( with a few exceptions of course). Most of the attempts come off far to similar to cheesy AOR, such as Journey, Styx, Foreigner. 

America specialises mostly Prog Metal and Jazz Rock/ Fusion, which it 'founded' so to speak, as Symphonic Prog was founded in the UK. I would say that different countries specialise in different genres according to where the genres were founded. The UK has never been amazing at Jazz Rock/ Fusion either, but this is not noticed as much as America and Symphonic Prog, because Jazz Rock/ Fusion is less popular on this site.


This is exactly what Chicapah's brilliant review posited. He also went on to cite many brilliant US prog artists from a variety of sub genres, but noticed a deficit of top drawer Symph proggers. Read the review, it will be the best 10 minutes you spend of  your day:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=407120




Edited by ExittheLemming - February 25 2011 at 23:22
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Points: 65455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 23:47
 thanks Lem, I needed a good laugh ..  "But as far as this disc goes, it stynx".  LOL
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Points: 7381 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2011 at 23:47
I'm not sure, but I think Frank Zappa was an American.  
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 01:12
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:

I think the issue here is that American's can't seem to do Symphonic Prog,( with a few exceptions of course). Most of the attempts come off far to similar to cheesy AOR, such as Journey, Styx, Foreigner. 

America specialises mostly Prog Metal and Jazz Rock/ Fusion, which it 'founded' so to speak, as Symphonic Prog was founded in the UK. I would say that different countries specialise in different genres according to where the genres were founded. The UK has never been amazing at Jazz Rock/ Fusion either, but this is not noticed as much as America and Symphonic Prog, because Jazz Rock/ Fusion is less popular on this site.


This is exactly what Chicapah's brilliant review posited. He also went on to cite many brilliant US prog artists from a variety of sub genres, but noticed a deficit of top drawer Symph proggers. Read the review, it will be the best 10 minutes you spend of  your day:

http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=407120



Yes, it seems as if the OP was referring to Chicapah's review, in which case Chicapah's review is quite perceptive and spot on.  American prog at least in the 70s was usually better at the more jazz based kind of prog.  There was a certain kind of classically influenced prog (being, NOT avant) that British prog rock bands were masters at, which the American bands couldn't approach.  And sorry Kansas fans, that includes them as well though I can see why people would draw parallels between Kansas and say Genesis or Yes.  As such, the British 'brand' of prog was uniquely theirs, a melting pot of jazz, classical, folk and rock of which the end result didn't lean too heavily towards one at the expense of the other.  The best European (as in not British) prog from the 70s was heavily classical or jazz. I submit that, by and large, they didn't quite master the rock side of it as well as the British while America leaned heavily towards rock and roll and jazz.  
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 05:38
Chicapah's review is hilarious, but he puzzles me by putting symphonic prog at the top of the ladder of artistic achievement in rock music. America gave me (in chronological order) music that I find much, much more artistic and exquisite than symphonic prog, like Frank Zappa, the fusion of Miles, Hancock, Corea and Weather Report, the post/noise rock symphonies of Glenn Branca, the experimental laboratory of Tortoise and of Jim O'Rourke's bands, the otherwordly Kayo Dot and other Driver bands, the math-madness of Don Caballero, or the unclassifiable John Zorn...

Edited by harmonium.ro - February 26 2011 at 05:39
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Points: 3196 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 07:00
I'm waiting for Walter to post here. I'm sure he would have some views about American "prog"
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Points: 256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 09:55
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I'm not sure, but I think Frank Zappa was an American.  
Why yes he was and probably the greatest of american artists.
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Points: 1072 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 19:53
Never heard Zappa except for a few stray listens because his music is not on subscription services.

What about Chicago? Lol.

Other Great Americans who remind me of prog (in no order):

Bob Dylan *****
Talking Heads ***
Devo ***
Steely Dan ***




Edited by RoyFairbank - February 26 2011 at 19:55
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Points: 756 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 20:18
Originally posted by RoyFairbank RoyFairbank wrote:

Originally posted by KansasFan165 KansasFan165 wrote:

American Prog is for L.O.S.E.R's

Lovers Of Symphonic European Rock


LOLThumbs Up
Thumbs Up

However, KF, I think that people who really do like Prog rock will agree that there isn't much which is up to standard with the European rock they love. Sorry, but I think Kansas is a subpar band. At least, I think you will agree, they are much weaker than any of the leading European bands (for example Yes, KC, Genesis or Pink Floyd). This matters because Kansas is always held as the top historic American prog band!

Phideaux is good, but he is a echo of prog glory, not a big earth shaking prog group. HIs albums have great stuff, though, better than Kansas, and I will agree with another's comments here that he is probably the best act in America doing Prog right now.

 As for the rest, Rush is Canadian, as is Saga. There are good American plain rock bands though, of course. But were talking about real Prog right?



I have to disagree. I think that saying that "there isn't much which is up to standard with the European rock they love"  is wholly untrue. Perhaps if you narrow the window to "symphonic prog in the seventies," you can make that argument, but I think Prog encompasses a lot more than just that narrow window (and I think if you dig deep enough you can find bands to disprove even that). To each his own though, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 

I have to say, though, I would take Kansas over Yes any day. Cool
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2011 at 21:31
Originally posted by VanVanVan VanVanVan wrote:

Originally posted by RoyFairbank RoyFairbank wrote:

Originally posted by KansasFan165 KansasFan165 wrote:

American Prog is for L.O.S.E.R's

Lovers Of Symphonic European Rock


LOLThumbs Up
Thumbs Up

However, KF, I think that people who really do like Prog rock will agree that there isn't much which is up to standard with the European rock they love. Sorry, but I think Kansas is a subpar band. At least, I think you will agree, they are much weaker than any of the leading European bands (for example Yes, KC, Genesis or Pink Floyd). This matters because Kansas is always held as the top historic American prog band!

Phideaux is good, but he is a echo of prog glory, not a big earth shaking prog group. HIs albums have great stuff, though, better than Kansas, and I will agree with another's comments here that he is probably the best act in America doing Prog right now.

 As for the rest, Rush is Canadian, as is Saga. There are good American plain rock bands though, of course. But were talking about real Prog right?



I have to disagree. I think that saying that "there isn't much which is up to standard with the European rock they love"  is wholly untrue. Perhaps if you narrow the window to "symphonic prog in the seventies," you can make that argument, but I think Prog encompasses a lot more than just that narrow window (and I think if you dig deep enough you can find bands to disprove even that). To each his own though, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 

I have to say, though, I would take Kansas over Yes any day. Cool


And Kansas is not the best American prog anyway, just the most popular, perhaps.  But in the 70s, American prog does not match the breadth and spread of European prog, it's certainly a smaller scene, I don't think THAT is wholly untrue. I mean, up against British, Italian prog, France, Krautrock?  It could be said that the comparison is not reasonable, perhaps, but that's a different story.  Of course, things have changed now but the discussion seems to be about American prog in the 70s.  Also, rather than just symph prog, maybe Roy Fairbank is only considering prog outside fusion.  In that case also, I am inclined to agree.  My favourite American progsters from the 70s are, barring Zappa, fusioners and even his music has influences of fusion. 
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lucas View Drop Down
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Points: 8138 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2011 at 15:58
NRG, Kevin Gilbert's first band. Samples are downloadable for free on his website.
Ambrosia, their first two albums are excellent sympho prog.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Points: 75 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2011 at 16:23
One word.......Utopia.....nuff said
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Points: 17897 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2011 at 13:09
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I'm not sure, but I think Frank Zappa was an American.  
 
That's right. Larry Fast (aka Synergy) is also American.
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Points: 39 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2011 at 09:16
Ahh lets not forget the best kept secret in america:The Muffins.
That's right!Perfected Canterbury sound america style.
America got's some awsome Space Rock in Quarkspace,Floorian,Farflung,Mushroom Bardo Pond.
Heck
America's got even Zuehl in Corima.
Then
Recently a newcomer that's fast rising up the Prog ranks out of Chicago called Algernon.
Give you a little example them:
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Points: 26 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2011 at 14:17
I think it's definitely true that symphonic rock has never been America's forte.  They've gotten better at it in recent years (Spock's Beard, for instance), but a lot of the older attempts are either laughable or painful to listen to.  Starcastle, for one, bores me to tears -- they're often compared to Yes, and it makes me wonder how a derivation of that band's fantastic sound could be this bad.  Just my opinion though, no offense to anyone who digs Luttrell and Co.  Embarrassed
 
I can only take Styx in small doses; the only album of theirs I can listen to all the way through without being unhappy is "The Grand Illusion".  Kansas is significantly more tolerable but after a while the violins and Steve Walsh's voice start to grate on me.
 
However, to say that America sucks at prog is ludicrous.  After all, our version of psychedelia played a strong part in creating prog.  And aren't we the big jazz buffs?  If there's one style of prog we're REALLY good at, it's Jazz Fusion.  Weather Report, Return to Forever, Frank Zappa (who makes whatever style he tries, including fusion, hard not to like), and Chicago ('69-'75) are great.  And let's not forget The Man himself....
 
 
I'll admit that prog metal's never been my favorite style, nor am I that familiar with it.  I do like Dream Theater and Ayreon but I prefer '70s and early '80s metal more, and if I want it mixed with prog I'll usually go with "heavy proggers" like Uriah Heep and Rush.  However I do know that America is responsible for really bringing the prog metal scene to light with the aforemention DT as well as Queensryche and Fate's Warning.
 
So in short America does have a lot to offer to progressive rock, and has created a lot of good experimental music over the decades.  But when it comes to symphonic prog Europe is clearly superior.


Edited by PinkFloydManiac1973 - March 06 2011 at 14:17
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