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Negoba View Drop Down
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Points: 5210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:19
Just to clear up some terminology from someone who had too many classes in this crap...
 
Psychopath is a term that have been used interchangably with sociopath and usually gets classified as Antisocial Personality Disorder now. It's a pervasive personality pattern that has been studied for a long time and has gone under different names. There's a lot of politicizing of the study because it is so intertwined with ideas of responsibility, crime, and justice. But there does seem to be a personality type that seems to display a great deal of superficial charm, a propensity toward emotional manipulation, and a lack of empathy toward others.
 
Now, this is very different from the term "psychopathology" in general which is a wastebasket "disease of the mind" term. Further, the term "psychotic" refers to disorders of thought, usually meaning hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, or grossly disordered thought organization.
 
The point of this is when most people say "Psychopath" they usually mean "criminally crazy." All kinds of different mental problems can cause people to do criminal things. But psychopaths (under my first definition) usually don't look that crazy at all.


Edited by Negoba - February 24 2011 at 13:41
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:25
^Well said. And I was aiming at the more DSM-IV definition here. That's why I said "just say he's an idiot" or, rephrasing to use psychopathy terms, "Just say insane to the point of danger". But labeling someone without having ever interviewed him or look at his history or something seemed to me extreme. We still haven't determined even if the Blue Effect was even delusional. After all, "normality" itself is quite impossible to determine. 
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Points: 6898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:47
I'm not normal.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:56
^ Who is? 
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 15:22
Originally posted by The T in red font The T in red font wrote:



All extremist are cut with the same scissors, and each one is as bad as the other, the only difference is in the number of killed people Not so much. If you add Hitler's, Mussolini's, and all the victims of fascist dictators in South and Central America, they will match pretty well with the numbers generated by Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Kim, and African dictators.  

Iván

No T, the numbers can't be equated

The worst genocides of the 20th Century

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39)23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945)12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)8,000,000
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44)5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20)1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79)1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94)1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78)1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970)1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982)900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994)800,000
Suharto (East Timor, West Papua, Communists, 1966-98)800,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88)600,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987)570,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39)500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002)400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001)400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979)300,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71)300,000 (Bangladesh)
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII)300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97)?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996)220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000)200,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972)150,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99)100,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999)100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79)?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974)70,000 (Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83)70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71)60,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990)40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947)30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20)30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain)30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999)30,000
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968)30,000
Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000)25,000
Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89)20,000
Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority)20,000
Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83)13,000
Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957)10,000 (war in Algeria)
Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion)10,000
Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997)6,000
Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001)3,500
Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973)3,000
Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06)2,000


Mao and Stalin together make more or less 100'000,000. And Scarulfi (who made the chart) is being conservative with Stalin, some talk even of 60 to 100 millions, but I believe it's around 32'000,000), and the population in South and Central America (Except Brazil Argentina, Venezuela and Mexico) is not comparable to this levels.

We must also talk about percentages, the almost 2'000,000 deaths of Cambodia represent 50% of the people of the country, that's impressive, it's like somebody killed 800'000 persons in China today...Imagine 1 of each two persons died killed.. 

But all are atrocious, no matter the numbers, one is too much.

Iván
            
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Proletariat View Drop Down
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:19
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Well, Mr. Plainview, I believe that 9/11 was a direct result of the Holocaust. In a very round about way. Ignoring several important details. Without any consideration for political or historical context. Lacking any real thought involved at all. It's just a belief I have.
 
Ummm...what were we talking about again?
thats whats called an irrational belief
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:21
Genocide =/= killing a lot of people
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:38
Genocide =/= much worse than just plainly killing a lot of people.

Killing a lot of people = bad, no matter race or reason

Killing just one person = also bad.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:39
Ivan I was actually agreeing with everything you said, though I see the communist have been worse than the fascist dictators.
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:42
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Genocide =/= much worse than just plainly killing a lot of people.

Killing a lot of people = bad, no matter race or reason

Killing just one person = also bad.


If a lot of people break into your house to kill your family, would you try to kill them?
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 16:47
If there aren't records the numbers of people wiped out can't really be verified.  Man's inhumanity to man is just appalling.  "It's only water in a stranger's tear." Dead
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 17:56
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Genocide =/= much worse than just plainly killing a lot of people.

Killing a lot of people = bad, no matter race or reason

Killing just one person = also bad.
If a lot of people break into your house to kill your family, would you try to kill them?
I would try to blast them straight to hell.

Of course in individual cases there are exceptions to the rule. Self-defense being the only one.
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 18:12
I always thought that the Japanese massacres were more substantial because of the length of the rule over China, Corea and Indochina and because those regions were much more populated than Europe.

Go figure. . . .

But then again, the Japanese were pretty much incompetent in everything during the War, except when facing outnumbered, outsourced and badly prepared soldiers as adversaries.

EDIT: Also, lol at the stormfrontfags trying to acomplish something outside that pathetic website. Lemme give you a tip, stay in anonymous forums. Just because you are not being B& @ 4chan and krautchan does not mean you can sh*t elsewhere.


Edited by CCVP - February 24 2011 at 18:30
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:05
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:



But then again, the Japanese were pretty much incompetent in everything during the War.
I think they were more about some dumb luck and some bad luck.  They wiped out a lot of battleships at Pearl Harbour but the carriers were out to sea.  At the battle of Midway they paid a heavy toll.  The Kamakazis were a big threat to the US ships.  And in the island combat, they were fierce foes.  Had it not been for the atomic bombs, we would have paid a heavier price in lives.  I for one am glad we are now friends.


Edited by Slartibartfast - February 24 2011 at 19:07
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:35
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Genocide =/= killing a lot of people

Right, incredibly  I read in the best papers and TV programs, how serial killers or mass murderers are called genocides

Genocide is essentially the systematic killing of a determined:
  1. Race 
  2. Religion 
  3. Ethnic group
  4. National Group
The term also includes acts of harassment such as 

Quote

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
        (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Source: Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, article 2


Only if this acts are perpetrated with the intention of destroying the group.

Many of the cases of the list I provided wouldn't be strictly genocide,. but being that the term National Group, is so broad, could be included.

Iván
            
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:36
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I'm starting to wonder if on doing searches for "holocaust" he discovered this thread, and joined simply to promulgate his filth.  I did see him post some things that were actually music related, but anyways.


He will have done a search and as Progarchives features quite high on Google lists he will have found us.
That just shows how important and popular this website has become if its going to attract Neo nazis due to one humble little thread.
 
The music related things of Blue effect were really qute generic comments that he could have found out about just by surfing here for an hour on various threads.
 
Its strange really. I began this thread as an interest point to find out more about opinions on the holocaust. I have learnt more than I bargained for through people like Mr Rouse.
 
Great work too Tony,Clap I dont even want to know how you did itShocked.
 
 
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Points: 65614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:50
oh Tony you Nazi Hunter you, fantastic detection

(.. hmm, where's Mr. Blue guy now ?)
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 20:03
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:



But then again, the Japanese were pretty much incompetent in everything during the War.
I think they were more about some dumb luck and some bad luck.  They wiped out a lot of battleships at Pearl Harbour but the carriers were out to sea.  At the battle of Midway they paid a heavy toll.  The Kamakazis were a big threat to the US ships.  And in the island combat, they were fierce foes.  Had it not been for the atomic bombs, we would have paid a heavier price in lives.  I for one am glad we are now friends.


Perl Harbour was the begining of the end of them, they had no way to win against the americans, SPECIALLY with such battle tactics they employed
The Kamikazis and the "fierce island battles" were nothing but downright counterproductive and sucidal mindset they had. Being in a civil war for >600 years and then having a industrialized way to kill makes that.
And the Japanese had even less resources than the Germans. Even without the atomic bombs I doubt they would be able to resis much longer without any supply of iron, coal, oil, food, rubber, etc. Wile the Germans counted on their "colonies/conquests" to supply a surplus for their own national production, the Japanese colonies supplied everything they had. Even today Japan have a pretty serious supply problem.

Besides, I don't know if befriending someone who did this without much retaliation is actually something good. Even though the Germans and the Japanese did exactly the same things, the former were absolutelly crushed and stripped of showing pride to such a degree that the simple fact of waving a German flag outside strict situations constitute a crime, wile in Japan the one responsible for authorizing and equiping a totalitarian State ruled untill his death, in 1989. It woudl be the same as having Hitler as the head of Germany for more than 50 years after the end of the war. That is absolutely NOT justified, unther ANY circumstance.
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 20:21
 
Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

    That just shows how important and popular this website has become if its going to attract Neo nazis due to one humble little thread.

He made 70 posts outside this thread, I doubt he would do that just to astroturf this thread. However, it is still hilarious and does say something about our size that we earned a Stormfront member's approval. I wish I had thought to Google his name!

This is off-topic, but it was the funniest thing when in '08 there were giant Ron Paul banners on every page of Stormfront. Obviously, despite the questionable history with his newsletter, Ron Paul didn't pay for them, but it was still hilarious. 
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Well, Mr. Plainview, I believe that 9/11 was a direct result of the Holocaust. In a very round about way. Ignoring several important details. Without any consideration for political or historical context. Lacking any real thought involved at all. It's just a belief I have.
 
Ummm...what were we talking about again?
thats whats called an irrational belief

I believe that is what most humans refer to as a "joke".
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2011 at 21:39
By the way, in the holocaust more than 1500000 Roma (gypsies to be brief) were killed. Why none ever remembers them?
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