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Truman82 
Forum Newbie 
Joined: February 24 2011 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
 Topic: Concept Albums - Form of Greater ArtPosted: February 24 2011 at 10:15 |
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Hi,
I make a preperation for list of concept albums. Savatage Queensryche Dream theatar and others Concept albums Everyone can submit article and point on which ban and which album. |
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The Truth
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 19 2009 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 21795 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 11:04 |
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I'm sorry, I don't fully understand...
Are you asking us to give you the names of some concept albums so you can make a list?
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livinginthepast
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 16 2011 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 11:05 |
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Truman82
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 24 2011 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 11:18 |
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Hi,
yes, send the list of the album names or write some short note why you choose these albums. And I publish all thoughts about that. First I write about Queensryche or Savatage, maybe Opeth, I will see. |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 13:56 |
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Does Jesus Christ Superstar fit in your "wish list"? undoubtedly a concept album but a bit removed from Queensryche, Savatage or Opeth I'm afraid...
What is it that you want really?
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18146 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 14:51 |
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Hi,
I would re-word this, since it is not always just a bunch of songs. The statement above is making an assumption that every thing is a "song" and many times they aren't, and are simply the next part or section of a symphony or a concerto.
You don't sit here and state that one of Beethoven's Symphonies is made up by "songs" when the theme changes and it goes into the next movement ... and if we are going to improve and elevate what we call "progressive" music, we need to improve how we look at our own music ... in general, in my book, songs are for pop music, and musical pieces and everything else for MUSIC ... and if we're simply considering all this a bunch of songs, the appeal of the whole piece loses the effect for me.
In my book, everything in The Wall, or The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, makes perfect sense and I have no quarry or worries about any of the pieces inside of it ... and they are not all songs, or the whole story is just a stupid kids fairy tale ... and we're not intellgent enough to see beyond that..
Please decide if MUSIC, is important to you or not!
One might think, or consider a David Bowie's album (Spiders from Mars) a bunch of songs that supposedly make up a concept, but then you run into Elton John (Goodbye Yellow Brick Road) ... and then Pink Floyd's The Wall ... and now you can easily say there is a story on one of these, and that the others are just a bunch of songs, that do not necessarily go together to tell any kind of a story.
Concept is an interesting word. It's even more difficult if you are trying to figure out what the word is supposed to mean, but in the end, if all we are doing is picking up a bunch of songs that deal with death -- then it becomes a "concept album?" ..... now the equation is ... getting messed up, is my point.
In general, a "concept" is NOT, just an idea ... it is a STORY ... and that is the part that rock fans are not always appreciating and catching up on ... it's not just a concept when everything is about death, or sex, or washing machines ... please make sure you understand this idea and ask if you don't.
There is no writer out there that is foolish enough to write out of "concepts" other than some economic or social this or that, in academia ... when the whole thing is about the use of the words, not the reality of it all ... because there is no reality to it ... and that is the same thing as the "story" ... almost all of the material propels the story and the whole thing further ...
I would probably be careful with this a bit more ... why? ... because a song about death might have nothing to do with the concept of the album ... it might drive the idea a little, but in general (more often than not for ME), the majority of lyrics are just another song ... and has nothing to do with the wholeness of the whole thing.
Think about this and what you just wrote, and how lyrics can change/corrupt the very thing you just wrote! It's easy to say that this symphony is a about _________, when it is called the Pastoral Symphony, but that is ellusive, and the best example I ever saw was in Ken Russell's film Mahler, when his wife left him ... and he had just written a whole symphony for her ... and she had no idea, didn't care, and wasn't interested. How's that for a perfect example that ... ideas ... are just ideas ... nothing else!
Remember that ... it's very important.
I would not worry about these, as the musical piece might and might not have any or all of these parts and might even be based on something else ... completely total and something else, that you and I have no idea about. These are "sub-parts" of the musical piece and (probably?) should not be listed here as a reason why something is a concept of not.
So we think that "Tommy" is a concept because of the tune? The melody? The voice? The lines in it? ... see the problem ...? it needs to be the totality, not just the little parts.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 19 2009 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 21795 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 14:56 |
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But Tommy's melody, voice and lyrics all are part of a concept. What you talkin' 'bout foo'?
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18146 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 15:08 |
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Not necessarily ... they ADD to the concept ... and help define/create a concept ... or at the very least, they make us think that we have a concept going ... and we might not.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Truman82
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 24 2011 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 17:47 |
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Yes, Jesus Christ Superstar isn't bad album. Laibach. kind of industrial but its good choice.
Moshkito, Ken Russel is a good Director :). Yes, maybe I am writing too fast this text. This is global list from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concept_albums but there is many unknown and underground bands. I want to write about progressive concept albums, and this stuff will be part of my blog. Edited by Truman82 - February 24 2011 at 17:49 |
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Truman82
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 24 2011 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 17:51 |
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Moshkito, this site Pedrosena is about film reviews, I am independent filmmaker and also write film recommendation.
So what is the best concept album you ever heard? |
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The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 19 2009 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 21795 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:10 |
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And if nothing made us think I concept was going on, would it be a concept album? And if the create the concept aren't they key components in the fact that it is a concept album?
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8778 |
Posted: February 24 2011 at 19:47 |
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The best concept album is Triumvirat's Spartacus.
Through the lyrics you can really feel the emotions of Spartacus and his gathering of forces to fight Rome, and also the enormous things that they had to face. Instrumentally, things also connect, in a thrilling way |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18146 |
Posted: February 25 2011 at 18:52 |
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NONE.
Because the word is overblown and sometimes impossible ... and we do not have the appreciation of the totality in music and work to appreciate the whole thing.
I probably would say that Klaus Schulze's 'Picasso" (10 CD's) is as good a concept piece as there ever has been, even if one might say that there are times that it appears to be just running on ... but most rock albums do that and the song concepts and formats are the same ... with different words and a diiferent instrument. In Klaus' albums, at least you know who the person is and what you are getting, and there is no deception or "ideas" ... just the music to take you with ... and I can not think of a better "concept", or "idea" to live through than that ... in fact, I might wanna request that for my death bed instead of morphine!
Btw ... my website is not just about film ... there is a lot on music that is a part of my book, and there now is some poetry and some short stories ... each icon in the bottom is a different link ... and yes I am looking to replace those but need someone to help with Photoshop or the like ... you just wait until some art gets in there ... ohh ... film reviews ... I still have 325 to add!
Also check out the photos of a few bands! Edited by moshkito - February 25 2011 at 18:54 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Truman82
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 24 2011 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Posted: March 08 2011 at 08:46 |
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"but most rock albums do that and the song concepts and formats are the same ... with different words and a different instrument"
I don't think so, I think there is a great concept albums in metal genre as good as some great classical compositions |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18146 |
Posted: March 08 2011 at 15:29 |
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The main reason for saying that, is that too many times, all these albums are linked by "lyrics" that might or might not tell a story ... and conversely, if all of a sudden we have a piece of music without lyrics ... it can't be a concept!
Or ... as has been the history of music with Symphonies and Concertos, the idea that we can not figure out what the music is about, therefore it can not be a "concept" ... it's too loose ... and there is no way to define half of these pieces, see?
In the end, we rely way too much on "lyrics", just like opera, to tell us what this is all supposedly about. In the end, the better ones, and the ones that are remembered are the ones that focus it down really well within a story concept that is very clear and out front ... not a nebulous concept like most of the progressive bands listed here, where you lose the concept if you turn the singer off! The sequence of moods and music, CAN create a concept, and take you with it ... and it could be just a suggestion by its title ... we certainly think and even suggest that the "Pastoral Symphony" is indeed that ... and we think that all "pastoral" music has to be almost like that.
It's the same thing with film. Those that are trully "progressive" in film, are the ones that have busted out the axes and told the "concepts" and "ideas" to take a flying leap, and then they just went with everything in front of them ... and sadly, this is not something that most social'istic people that love top ten and constantly refer to it (even in progressive music), are capable or willing to appreciate or understand. The rest is just "entertainment" in the Hollywood style, and you pay for it! ... how interesting! ... and in most cases we are still the slaves feeding the coffers of the rich ones that own the media and the movies and the music ... those are not "concepts" in my book! Edited by moshkito - March 08 2011 at 15:30 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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hobocamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2010 Location: Fine Furniture Status: Offline Points: 525 |
Posted: March 09 2011 at 08:56 |
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A Passion Play
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 1250 |
Posted: March 10 2011 at 02:36 |
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I like the idea that a concept means a story but I'm not sure it is correct. For me it is obvious that an epic is a story but I think that a concept can be showing a subject from different sides also. I'll mention some albums and try to show by that what I mean.
Banco del mutuo soccorso - Darwin : I don't understand a word but I get the feeling that all musical pieces are connected to Darwin and not just the opener (L'evolutione which I adore). The same problem of not understanding a word I have with il Baletto di Bronzo's YS which I believe (but can not prove) is a concept album and is built like a classical symphony.
Genesis - The lamb lies down on broadway : Definitely a concept album and a story. I think that it's the story of an English man arriving to NYC and gets a culture shock of how the American way is at one hand very bombastic but at the other hand shalow and virtual.
Gentle giant - All their music is inspired by Rabela's Gargantua & Pantagruel and all musical pieces relate to something in the book. yet I don't think every album is a story. Does that count ? The same can be said about Magma.
Harmonium - Si on avait baison d'un cinqiem saison : This is a concept album asking what could have happen if we had a fith season and each track describes one of these season (the closer "Histories sans parole" is the fith season and my favorite track of the album). It's not a story as I understand the term story but it is a concept album for sure.
Jethro Tull - Thick as a brick : I don't realy need to explain that do I ? A concept and a story.
Pink Floyd - Animals : Another intersting example. It devides people to 3 kinds - one is the selling agents that hunt to survive, cheating and fighting to climb up (dogs), second is the managers that ruling the world, having every thing they can desire but are still miserable (pigs) and third kind is common people beated on regular basis by the other 2 kinds and living as a prey with no understanding of their situation (sheep). I think it is not a story where one part is connected to the other but it is a concept for sure.
Hope I helped.
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omri
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Concept Albums - Form of Greater Art
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The Truth wrote: