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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 20:12
Originally posted by hobocamp hobocamp wrote:

Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Of all time? Lennon is barely cold in historical terms, that's absurd! You'd have to go at least as far back as Beethoven to get serious, although we probably owe a greater debt to Bach. Or whoever wrote all that Gregorian chant.

Of course, this is only considering Western music, as Eastern music has a much longer tradition that I know little about. 


This man has nailed it.


Nailed what? The last in the coffin of Lennon as a credible contender? By his logic, if the same question were posed in 1857, Beethoven's, not to mention Bach's, consideration would be "absurd" due to "historical terms."  I'm not supporting Lennon as the most influential, but I don't see the relevance of this type of position.


But Beethoven's sphere of influence is larger, even compared to Beatles. Even in the 20th century, I would consider Miles more influential. And singling out Lennon makes no sense for on what basis does Beatles's influence derive solely from his contribution?  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 20:31
Jesus.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 20:33
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

Here's a few ideas:

The inventor of the pianoforte.
 
The inventor of the electric guitar.
 
 
 
These two instruments have dominated Western music in their own eras. Obviously their precursors were also very important but each had some specific qualities that allowed entire new sounds to evolve.
 
 


You mean Bartolomeo Cristofori and Les Paul?

In terms of classical composers, I would argue that Beethoven has been more influential than Bach, but as for modern popular music I have to go with Elvis.

I also think that Brian Eno has been tremendously influential on modern music and that he is often underestimated in this regard.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 20:44
Originally posted by hobocamp hobocamp wrote:

Originally posted by The Pessimist The Pessimist wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Of all time? Lennon is barely cold in historical terms, that's absurd! You'd have to go at least as far back as Beethoven to get serious, although we probably owe a greater debt to Bach. Or whoever wrote all that Gregorian chant.

Of course, this is only considering Western music, as Eastern music has a much longer tradition that I know little about. 


This man has nailed it.

Nailed what? The last in the coffin of Lennon as a credible contender? By his logic, if the same question were posed in 1857, Beethoven's, not to mention Bach's, consideration would be "absurd" due to "historical terms."  I'm not supporting Lennon as the most influential, but I don't see the relevance of this type of position.

It would be completely logical to say that in 1857 about Beethoven. What's the problem? 
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:


20th Century- Herbert von Karajan

I doubt it.
It is impossible to downplay,or ignore, Karajan's astounding credentials
        Even after 20 years since his death, he is still enormously important. For a very long time-years, even decades, about one of every four classical records bought was a Karajan recording The important positions in the music world and awards he recieved are too numerous even to mention.
              HVK was a forward looking visionary, and very  interested in  technology as applied to music, being the first in  areas of technology  connected with music. There are a  whole plethora of  music  "firsts" connected with  Karajan.  Not even the  Beatles themselves  could rival all of this.

Yeah for conductors, but he can't match someone influential who actually wrote music. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 20:52
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:



I also think that Brian Eno has been tremendously influential on modern music and that he is often underestimated in this regard.


Ehhhhhhhh. As a singular individual he could be thought of as highly influential, but i wouldn't overestimate his actual importance to the course of music. Maybe he nudged ambient music along a bit, but it's not like he was the only one. And he's a good producer, with a identifiable approach, but I don't see it being revolutionary or anything.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 20:53
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Jesus.


Well, he did write a good rock opera, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 22:00
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:


20th Century- Herbert von Karajan

I doubt it.
It is impossible to downplay,or ignore, Karajan's astounding credentials
        Even after 20 years since his death, he is still enormously important. For a very long time-years, even decades, about one of every four classical records bought was a Karajan recording The important positions in the music world and awards he recieved are too numerous even to mention.
              HVK was a forward looking visionary, and very  interested in  technology as applied to music, being the first in  areas of technology  connected with music. There are a  whole plethora of  music  "firsts" connected with  Karajan.  Not even the  Beatles themselves  could rival all of this.

I would wager to say that Schoenberg was more influential from the past century. I would probably say Miles Davis or one of a few other jazz greats takes the 20th century title.

I agree with Shields partially here. Of course HVK, as much as I love him, is not as influential as those who revolutionized music from within. HVK was an outstanding director first at the Wiener Staatsoper and then at his glorious stint with the Berliner Philarmoniker but he was, after all, just a director. Even Leonard Bernstein would have a greater impact since he was also a composer and he was a pioneer of many composers (like Mahler, following the steps of Bruno Walter). 

I disagree with Miles Davis of course. Maybe it's just me but the real revolutions of the 20th century started in academic music and "trickled down" WinkTongue... Please... Arnold Schoenberg and serialism and atonal music; Bartok; even awkward experimenters like Cage, Stockhausen or the minimalists. But of course, in the 20th century, few have the revolutionary stature of the destroyer of rhythm, not a personal favorite but how could I deny it, Igor Stravinsky. 


Now if this question (I haven't read it yet) is of all times, we better start with Hildegard von Bingen and contemporaries, and end in our father, the greatest of them all, Johann Sebastian Bach. And whoever disagrees with me can meet me outside.... Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 22:03
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by The Truth The Truth wrote:

John Lennon? Wasn't he influenced by Bob Dylan?


And Bach.

i just found the first page Tongue

Bach. Enough said. 






Lennon? Of ALL time? Please.... just because we didn't live in the previous centuries doesn't mean we can be so damn... sorry... ignorants. Ok, you can say something else. Damn if you so much think life start and ends with rock at least say Elvis or one of his influences or some blues artist... but LENNON????ConfusedWackoUnhappy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 22:05
Originally posted by SolarLuna96 SolarLuna96 wrote:

Jesus.

He turned water into wine but it's rumored he actually sucked at music, leaving everything in good old's Gabriel lyre-ready hands....  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 22:08

Study Bach: there you will find everything.

Johannes Brahms




Bach: The immortal god of harmony.

Ludwig van Beethoven




And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolant god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity — on each page we discover things which we thought were born only yesterday, from delightful arabesques to an overflowing of religious feeling greater than anything we have since discovered. And in his works we will search in vain for anything the least lacking in good taste.

Claude Debussy



Bach almost persuades me to be a Christian.

Roger Fry



I do not think that music keeps evolving. It evolved through Bach; since then, in my humble opinion, all the innovations added nothing.

Gordon Getty



Music owes as much to Bach as religion to its founder.

Robert Schumann



Playing and studying Bach convinces us that we are all numskulls.

Robert Schumann



Bach is the beginning and end of all music.

Max Reger



Although love for music does not necessarily mean love for the composers of all the times, the true love for music, however, cannot exist without the love for Bach.

Dimitrij Kabalewski



[T]he most stupendous miracle in all music!

Richard Wagner



Bach’s music is the only argument proving the creation of the Universe can not be regarded a complete failure.

E. M. Cioran



Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can play weird; that’s easy. What’s hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that’s creativity.

Charles Mingus



You can’t have Bach, Mozart and Beethoven as your favorite composers: They simply define what music is!




Not that this proves anything but anyway... I just love quoting quotes about Bach... Tongue



Edited by The T - February 14 2011 at 22:10
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 22:10
Originally posted by stonebeard stonebeard wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:



I also think that Brian Eno has been tremendously influential on modern music and that he is often underestimated in this regard.


Ehhhhhhhh. As a singular individual he could be thought of as highly influential, but i wouldn't overestimate his actual importance to the course of music. Maybe he nudged ambient music along a bit, but it's not like he was the only one. And he's a good producer, with a identifiable approach, but I don't see it being revolutionary or anything.


I am of the opinion that electronic, ambient and hip-hop music would all sound vastly different without Eno around to influence it. My Life in the Bush of Ghosts introduced the power of sampling to the world, big time (Skinny Puppy were working along the same lines, but they were much less well known), just as Discreet Music did for ambient. I'm not saying he's the most influential of all time - not even close. But I do think his impact on modern music is underestimated by most people.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 22:45
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

I do not think that music keeps evolving. It evolved through Bach; since then, in my humble opinion, all the innovations added nothing. 

Gordon Getty


what a ponce, sounds more like Gordon Geko--  leave it to a Republican oil tycoon to say something so ignorant






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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2011 at 22:53
^Oh unlike the other quotes I didn't know who he was . I just had to copy it. Of course it's nonsense. THAT ONE is nonsense.

Still not as nonsensical as naming Lennon most influential name in music of all time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 04:47
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:


Study Bach: there you will find everything.

Johannes Brahms




Bach: The immortal god of harmony.

Ludwig van Beethoven




And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolant god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity — on each page we discover things which we thought were born only yesterday, from delightful arabesques to an overflowing of religious feeling greater than anything we have since discovered. And in his works we will search in vain for anything the least lacking in good taste.

Claude Debussy



Bach almost persuades me to be a Christian.

Roger Fry



I do not think that music keeps evolving. It evolved through Bach; since then, in my humble opinion, all the innovations added nothing.

Gordon Getty



Music owes as much to Bach as religion to its founder.

Robert Schumann



Playing and studying Bach convinces us that we are all numskulls.

Robert Schumann



Bach is the beginning and end of all music.

Max Reger



Although love for music does not necessarily mean love for the composers of all the times, the true love for music, however, cannot exist without the love for Bach.

Dimitrij Kabalewski



[T]he most stupendous miracle in all music!

Richard Wagner



Bach’s music is the only argument proving the creation of the Universe can not be regarded a complete failure.

E. M. Cioran



Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can play weird; that’s easy. What’s hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that’s creativity.

Charles Mingus



You can’t have Bach, Mozart and Beethoven as your favorite composers: They simply define what music is!




Not that this proves anything but anyway... I just love quoting quotes about Bach... Tongue


He invented Jazz before any black musician ever thought of it and still influences Prog Rock today (Beatles, Genesis, Renaissance, Marillion, Emerson .....)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 05:56
Most Influential Individual in Music?

The listener
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 06:00
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Most Influential Individual in Music?

The listener

Profound.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 10:04
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

 It would be completely logical to say that in 1857 about Beethoven. What's the problem? 


And Bach. You forgot to mention Bach. It would be completely logical to say that in 1857 about Bach. 
Nevertheless, "barely cold in historical terms"  does not rule out influence, so the claim is neither valid nor sound; and therefore not logical. 

Here are some "absurd" quotes that were made by contemporaries of Bach, who was barely cold in historical terms:  

Wink

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Study Bach: there you will find everything.

Johannes Brahms

Bach: The immortal god of harmony.

Ludwig van Beethoven

Music owes as much to Bach as religion to its founder.

Robert Schumann

Playing and studying Bach convinces us that we are all numskulls.

Robert Schumann

[T]he most stupendous miracle in all music!



Edited by hobocamp - February 15 2011 at 10:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 10:07
^ Those were hardly Bach's contemporaries Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 10:09
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

^ Those were hardly Bach's contemporaries equals Wink
 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2011 at 10:44
Originally posted by hobocamp hobocamp wrote:

Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

 It would be completely logical to say that in 1857 about Beethoven. What's the problem? 


And Bach. You forgot to mention Bach. It would be completely logical to say that in 1857 about Bach. 
Nevertheless, "barely cold in historical terms"  does not rule out influence, so the claim is neither valid nor sound; and therefore not logical. 
You can't know the influence of someone until it's been a long time since they died. 1857 was 200 years after Bach was born, so that's probably long enough (although he was not respected until the 19th century).
Originally posted by hobocamp hobocamp wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

^ Those were hardly Bach's contemporaries equals Wink
 

Handshake
I have no idea what this post is supposed to mean, but this new emoticon, used both seriously and sarcastically, is starting to really anger me.


Edited by Henry Plainview - February 15 2011 at 10:46
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