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Blue Effect 
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Joined: February 12 2011
Location: Brooklyn
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Points: 78
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 Posted: February 12 2011 at 12:16 |
 timburlane wrote:
I was listening to Yes' Tormato album the other day - not a masterwork but an album with a great deal to enjoy contained within, as well a the odd flash of genius (On The Silent Wings Of Freedom for instance). However there is one song on the album which is frankly hideous, I refer of course to The Circus Of Heaven. I can forgive Yes a great deal but truly this track is nothing more nor less than a shocking crime against prog with it's twee syrupyness and sickening sentimentality. This set me to thinking and now I give you my top three crimes against prog:
1; The Circus of Heaven - Yes
2; Love Beach - ELP (all of it, it's horrid)
3; The Battle of Epping Forest - Genesis
you of course may think differently... |
Blasphemy!
Follow You, Follow Me, now that was criminal.
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Fox On The Rocks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Points: 5012
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Posted: February 12 2011 at 12:03 |
The Battle of Epping Forest is a masterpiece of Progressive Rock compositions. Sorry timburlane
I neither agree or disagree about Yes and I personally havent heard Love Beach by ELP.
Here's my 3
1.Owner of a Lonely heart - Yes
2. Invisible Touch - Genesis
3. Roll The Bones - Rush
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12816
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Posted: February 05 2011 at 22:20 |
boo boo wrote:
That's pretty sweet, the only bass I have is a cheap Telluride. :(
But i'm not a good enough musician to deserve anything of higher quality I guess.
Anyway, Howe is my favorite guitarist, and I'm very fond of Wetton and Palmer as well (and I like Downes work on Drama too) but a lot of what I've heard from Asia (as in that particular lineup) has been a massive waste of talent. Even when Yes went pop they still had creativity for a while anyway. While right from the get go Asia were doing bland AOR.
I do have their first two albums on vinyl, which I'm not ashamed of because regardless of what I think of the music, the Roger Dean artwork kicks all kinds of ass.
As for Yes. I'd say Big Generator was their first genuine bomb (I do like Final Eyes though) and it wasn't until Wakeman and Howe's return for Keys that they started getting back on the right track. I do think people are a bit too harsh on Rabin though, he's a good guitar player and I think his contributions to 90125 were good at least, and even after that album there were a few gems beneath all the crap, when he had something to work with he did a good job.
Shame about Union though, proof that not all things end up being as cool as they sound on paper, at least the cover art was good.  |
Have you at least heard Endless Dream from Talk? I really enjoy that song a lot, a great progressive epic song... but of course, not everyone will like it.
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Dellinger
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Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12816
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Posted: February 05 2011 at 22:19 |
boo boo wrote:
That's pretty sweet, the only bass I have is a cheap Telluride. :(
But i'm not a good enough musician to deserve anything of higher quality I guess.
Anyway, Howe is my favorite guitarist, and I'm very fond of Wetton and Palmer as well (and I like Downes work on Drama too) but a lot of what I've heard from Asia (as in that particular lineup) has been a massive waste of talent. Even when Yes went pop they still had creativity for a while anyway. While right from the get go Asia were doing bland AOR.
I do have their first two albums on vinyl, which I'm not ashamed of because regardless of what I think of the music, the Roger Dean artwork kicks all kinds of ass.
As for Yes. I'd say Big Generator was their first genuine bomb (I do like Final Eyes though) and it wasn't until Wakeman and Howe's return for Keys that they started getting back on the right track. I do think people are a bit too harsh on Rabin though, he's a good guitar player and I think his contributions to 90125 were good at least, and even after that album there were a few gems beneath all the crap, when he had something to work with he did a good job.
Shame about Union though, proof that not all things end up being as cool as they sound on paper, at least the cover art was good. |
Have you heard Asia's album Phoenix? For me it was better than the first two albums (nothing too spectacular, but it was a very nice pop album); and it features the song Parallel Worlds / Deja / Vortex, which is indeed very close to a prog song (or rather, it begins as a pop song, and then has a very good progressive instrumental section); at least this song is worth hearing from Asia.
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progkidjoel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
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Posted: February 05 2011 at 07:26 |
crimhead wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Adams Bolero wrote:
timburlane wrote:
2; Love Beach - ELP (all of it, it's horrid) |
It is not all horrid; there is some great music in it. I will defend Love Beach till my dying day! |
You and me, pal!  |
Add me as well but......the LP cover has got to go.
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I'll join the bandwagon, never thought Love Beach was as terrible as many seem to think. Also, I'm surprised to not see much love for The Battle of Epping Forest, I've always considered it to be one of their absolute best tracks.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 05 2011 at 07:09 |
That's pretty sweet, the only bass I have is a cheap Telluride. :(
But i'm not a good enough musician to deserve anything of higher quality I guess.
Anyway, Howe is my favorite guitarist, and I'm very fond of Wetton and Palmer as well (and I like Downes work on Drama too) but a lot of what I've heard from Asia (as in that particular lineup) has been a massive waste of talent. Even when Yes went pop they still had creativity for a while anyway. While right from the get go Asia were doing bland AOR.
I do have their first two albums on vinyl, which I'm not ashamed of because regardless of what I think of the music, the Roger Dean artwork kicks all kinds of ass.
As for Yes. I'd say Big Generator was their first genuine bomb (I do like Final Eyes though) and it wasn't until Wakeman and Howe's return for Keys that they started getting back on the right track. I do think people are a bit too harsh on Rabin though, he's a good guitar player and I think his contributions to 90125 were good at least, and even after that album there were a few gems beneath all the crap, when he had something to work with he did a good job.
Shame about Union though, proof that not all things end up being as cool as they sound on paper, at least the cover art was good.
Edited by boo boo - February 05 2011 at 07:19
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7418
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Posted: February 05 2011 at 02:31 |
boo boo wrote:
What does Howe have to be embarassed about? |
Not embarrassed, he just HATES that song! He doesn't like any of Trevor Rabin's material. I know Howe a bit, the bass in my photo was hand-built by Howe's personal luthier, Hugh Manson. Nice chap, he does the guitar work for Martin Barre, John Paul Jones & other guys besides Howe.
I enjoy much of "90125," and "It Can Happen" is my personal favorite. Rabin did the band a favor by giving them a hugely-needed shot in the arm, as they were in dire financial straits. The single "OOALH" made them some serious cash & a younger following.
Can't say that I care for the rest of the Rabin/Yes catalog, "Big Generator" always left me cold. "Union" was nicknamed "Onion" by the band, and I don't know "Talk" all that well.
"Heat of the Moment" - UGH! What a stinker! My favorite on the first Asia LP was "Sole Survivor," very nice tune.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 09:53 |
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I also don't believe there are "crimes against prog" since in order for there to be crimes there has to be rules. The whole idea of progressive music is not having to follow any rules.
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boo boo
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Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 09:52 |
What does Howe have to be embarassed about?
I'd much rather play Owner of a Lonely Heart (which I actually like even though it has the misfortune of being THAT song everybody associates the band with) than Heat of the Moment. 
I'm an avid defender of 90125, not that I think it's a masterpiece or anything but I find it to be a pretty good pop record, even as mainstream as it is it's not uninventive (leave that to later albums) and is still leagues better than a lot of pop music from that era and today.
Asia on the other hand...............
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cstack3
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Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 09:44 |
Go to the musicians themselves! "Owner of a Lonely Heart"...ugh! I always enjoyed watching Howe make faces whenever he was forced to play that mess (Reunion tour, 35th Anniversary shows etc.) He looks like he's biting into a lemon, or worse!
"Epping Forest" isn't the best Genesis, but the worst Gabriel-era Genesis is far better than nearly anything made lately. Banks gets an excellent tone out of his Hammond organ. And, "Selling England" was a masterpiece, so I forgive one weak track on the LP.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 02:01 |
I don't really consider any of the King Crimson albums to be bad, ConstrucKtion of Light would be my least favorite. Beat would probably be next in line though it has grown on me a bit aside from that one song. My favorite tracks from Beat would be Sartori, Waiting Man, Neurotica and The Howler.
I don't dislike Heartbeat because it's a pop song, but because it's a very bland and generic one, not all that different from that OTHER Heartbeat song from the 80s, the one from Don Johnson. 
Beat is my least favorite of their 80s trilogy, oddly enough I consider it their least poppy. While 80s King Crimson was rather pop (hence why people here hate that era JUST because it's poppy) what they were doing was a very creative and out there kind of pop music, on par with the best new wave bands of the time and not at all lacking the ambition you expect from King Crimson.
In fact I hold the followup album Three of a Perfect Pair in very high regard despite it's highly unfavorable reputation among prog fans for it's poppy first half, which I actually favor over the more avant garde second half. I think King Crimson did pop very well.
Edited by boo boo - February 04 2011 at 02:04
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 01:35 |
Ah, the illustrious "Heartbeat." Who knew Fripp could be such a Casanova? Not only is he intelligent and refined, he's also got a deep well of emotion. Those lyrics are something else.  "Sartori In Tangier" is really good though. I am ashamed to admit that "Beat" is one of my favorite King Crimson albums, which is highly embarrassing considering its reputation among Prog fans. The early 80's lineup is my favorite Crimson lineup, aside from that found on the first album.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 01:22 |
I like more than a few songs mentioned, I actually like The Devil's Triangle for it's atmosphere.
The only King Crimson song I sincerely hate is Heartbeat. BRRRRR. What were they thinking?
Edited by boo boo - February 04 2011 at 01:23
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 01:17 |
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I love "Joe's Garage"...looks like I'm in the minority though!
I hate almost anything by Yes, especially "90125." Also, I loathe Marillion.
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 01:12 |
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There's only so much pompousness I can tolerate. I still show his reviews to friends from time to time so they can laugh at him with equal astonishment.
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 13382
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 01:08 |
boo boo wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
Joe's Garage by Frank Zappa
Hawkwind
Gong's Radio Gnome Trilogy
Jon Anderson
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You know, you were the main reason I stopped posting on this forum. |
oh boo hoo
Edited by irrelevant - February 04 2011 at 01:10
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Guests
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Posted: February 03 2011 at 23:38 |
Top 3? I have so many more: "Dog Years" by Rush  "Rivendell" by Rush "Lakeside Park" by Rush "Red Tide" by Rush "War Paint" by Rush "Show Don't Tell" by Rush "You Bet Your Life" by Rush  "Neurotica" by Rush "Face Up" by Rush "Faithless" by Rush "Presto" by Rush "Stick It Out" by Rush "Cold Fire" by Rush There's more. Rush is responsible for a minor avalanche of garbage. And to make matters worse, "Presto" and "Stick It Out" were on the set list for their most recent tour!
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 03 2011 at 23:32 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Joe's Garage by Frank Zappa
Hawkwind
Gong's Radio Gnome Trilogy
Jon Anderson
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You know, you were the main reason I stopped posting on this forum. But now it should be apparrent to everyone here how generally wrong about everything you are.
Edited by boo boo - February 03 2011 at 23:33
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boo boo
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Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 03 2011 at 23:28 |
Sign me up for the "Epping Forest is Epping Brilliant" party.
Triceratopsoil wrote:
The genre of neo-prog is a crime against music, let alone against prog |
And sign me up for this one too.
Marillion are the exception, not the rule.
Edited by boo boo - February 03 2011 at 23:47
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The Dark Elf
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Points: 13238
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Posted: February 03 2011 at 23:15 |
Dellinger wrote:
For me, this is exactly why I may agree to consider Epping Forest a Crime against prog, because it is the one song that brings this album down for me, and won't allow me to consider it a 5 star masterpiece. I would even say the albums survives "I Know What I like" and "More Fool me", which, even though pop songs, the first I would even say is a good pop song, and the second may not be good, but it doesn't really bother me much, and it's rather short. Epping Forest, on the other side, annoys me quiet a bit, and it's 10 min long, so it can't be ignored (it can be skipped, ofcourse, but then you're not listening to the whole album). |
I agree. "The Battle of Epping Forest" is a failure and detracts from an otherwise masterly recording, and the fact that it drones on for nearly a fifth of the album only makes it worse. It is a mirror, in a way, of the problems I have with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, where the first half of the album is brilliant but the second meanders about like a dog trying to bite its own tail.
Edited by The Dark Elf - February 03 2011 at 23:16
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