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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:15
I think that for the sake of international coherence, Americans should start calling liberals who are really liberals: those who favor free markets, trade, and freedom. People from outside must be thinking "big government liberals??? What a strange kind!!" 
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Proletariat View Drop Down
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:21
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.


Glad you weren't around during the Revolution.  Thumbs Down
I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.
 
 


Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not?  Have you asked them?

And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history.  Still do.
im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:26
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.


Glad you weren't around during the Revolution.  Thumbs Down
I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.
 
 


Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not?  Have you asked them?

And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history.  Still do.
im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you


You and your family are already terrorized by the federal government.  You just don't recognize it because none of you are bleeding.

As long as they keep you comfortable, you don't care.  I get it. 

What would you do if terrorists from afar came with guns to your home and demanded some of your money?


Edited by Epignosis - January 24 2011 at 19:27
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:38
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.


Glad you weren't around during the Revolution.  Thumbs Down
I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.
 
 


Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not?  Have you asked them?

And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history.  Still do.
im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you

There would be no reign of terror because there is no group holding absolute power over the rest. 

What an idealist for someone called "Proletariat". 
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:39
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Here's something I don't get either.  The USPS spends about $2.3 billion on fuel to deliver mail each year.  Funny thing about environmentalist, big-government liberals...


Actually in 2009 the usps spent 1.1 billion on fuel.
44,000 alternative fuel vehicles are employed by the usps.
The usps delivers mail to the bottom of Grand  Canyon on mules, lets see ups or fed ex do that.
A majority of mailmen walk their routes.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:43
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

What's a libertarian W.A.S.T.E? 
I thought you of all people would get my pretentious literary allusions. ;-)
Always good to find another Pynchon fan.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Points: 3449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:46
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.


Glad you weren't around during the Revolution.  Thumbs Down
I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.
 
 


Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not?  Have you asked them?

And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history.  Still do.
im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you


You and your family are already terrorized by the federal government.  You just don't recognize it because none of you are bleeding.

As long as they keep you comfortable, you don't care.  I get it. 

What would you do if terrorists from afar came with guns to your home and demanded some of your money?
First, we offer them some pulled pork and beer.  If that's refused, well...can someone remind me, my memory is not what it used to be...what was the name of that first Metallica album?
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Points: 31169 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 19:49
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.


Glad you weren't around during the Revolution.  Thumbs Down
I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.
 
 


Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not?  Have you asked them?

And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history.  Still do.
im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you


lol...how did a discussion on the post office lead to this.

oh wait it's progarchives
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Points: 32553 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 20:15
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Here's something I don't get either.  The USPS spends about $2.3 billion on fuel to deliver mail each year.  Funny thing about environmentalist, big-government liberals...


Actually in 2009 the usps spent 1.1 billion on fuel.
44,000 alternative fuel vehicles are employed by the usps.
The usps delivers mail to the bottom of Grand  Canyon on mules, lets see ups or fed ex do that.
A majority of mailmen walk their routes.


A majority of mailmen walk their routes?  Please show me a valid source for this.  By majority, I mean more than 50%.

The USPS delivers mail on mules?  Um..okay? UPS delivers things in big trucks.  Big trucks are better than mules.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:19
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.


Glad you weren't around during the Revolution.  Thumbs Down
I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.
 
 


Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not?  Have you asked them?

And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history.  Still do.
im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you

There would be no reign of terror because there is no group holding absolute power over the rest. 

What an idealist for someone called "Proletariat". 
i am a communist in my belief in the evolution of social systems leading to communism but I am not an advocate of rovolution.
 
also I don't see how a liberterian system in which buisness is unfettered by regulation could end up in anything other than oligarchy. whithout a strong central government it is natural for social inequalities to widen and the wealthyest will come out on top and those on bottom will be more or less serfs. so while ideally there would be no group with absolute power economically of course their would be.
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:20
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

im sorry i don't want to live through a period of turmoil resulting from a major change in the economic structure of my nation? if the majority of citizens like the postal service then libertarians need to suck it up.


Glad you weren't around during the Revolution.  Thumbs Down
I believe in the masses making decisions, if the majority of americans wanted change I wouldn't so much mind... although I would probably go somewhere else until the bad bit was over.
 
 


Do you know if the majority of Americans want change or not?  Have you asked them?

And as for comfort and safety trumping morality and liberty, we have had a lot of that throughout our history.  Still do.
im sorry i put the safety and happyness of myself and my family before idealism. revolutions are tricky... how do i know if this particular one will end up like the american revolution because I ain't dying for one that ends up like the russian or cuban or even the french revolution... I want no part of the rieghn of terror thank you


You and your family are already terrorized by the federal government.  You just don't recognize it because none of you are bleeding.

As long as they keep you comfortable, you don't care.  I get it. 

What would you do if terrorists from afar came with guns to your home and demanded some of your money?
that is a gross exaggeration. yes, i may not have all of the rights and freedoms you proclaim but im willing to give some up in exchange for what a strong central government provides the USPS being one example.
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Points: 679 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:37
My father is a postman so if the postal service goes so will his job and millions of other postal employers.
 
Would someone please think of the postal workers!
''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.''

- Albert Camus
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:42
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

the government requiring builders to include mailboxes in neigborhoods is the same to me as building them.


lol

lol logic of the year
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:43
Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

My father is a postman so if the postal service goes so will his job and millions of other postal employers.
 
Would someone please think of the postal workers!

Or he would go to work for a private company which is now expanding in anticipation of the increased flow of mail.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:43
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

the government requiring builders to include mailboxes in neigborhoods is the same to me as building them.


lol

lol logic of the year
are they built? can I use them?
good enough for me.
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:45
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

the government requiring builders to include mailboxes in neigborhoods is the same to me as building them.


lol

lol logic of the year
are they built? can I use them?
good enough for me.

lol wot? 

Let's see. Private companies build them. Private companies pay to build them. From this you derive that government built them. Government invested the money to built them. Therefore private companies can't put stuff in them.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:46
I'm taking screenshots of this thread. I'm going to make a scrap book.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:47
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

 

lol...how did a discussion on the post office lead to this.

oh wait it's progarchives

LOL
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 1882 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:51
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

the government requiring builders to include mailboxes in neigborhoods is the same to me as building them.


lol

lol logic of the year
are they built? can I use them?
good enough for me.

lol wot? 

Let's see. Private companies build them. Private companies pay to build them. From this you derive that government built them. Government invested the money to built them. Therefore private companies can't put stuff in them.
private companies would not build them if the govenment did not mandate they build them because there is no profit in it. therefore the government is responsible for me having a mailbox... why is this hard for you?
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2011 at 21:57
It's like arguing with an Alzheimer patient. You seem to forget the point you were trying to make with every post.

Your argument is like saying builders wouldn't put doors on houses unless the government made them, because there's no profit in it. The fact that you want one shows that there's profit in it. Further, since the government didn't build it or pay for it, there's no difference between a builder putting one on the house or you putting it there yourself.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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