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stonebeard 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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 Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:54 |
 timothy leary wrote:
A fun thread to read, love the ones who deny using it but know so much about it
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You are aware the site does not allow promotion of illegal drug use, right? And admitting you do it is basically tacit promotion. No matter the difference, I do smoke marijuana occasionally. I don't make a big deal about it. No one's winning cool points for it anymore because it's practically normal to smoke pot. Nothing to see here let's get on with our lives.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:55 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
CCVP wrote:
Encarceration and law enforcement is not the way to treat a social and health problem. It never was and never will. |
One question, according to most psychiatrists, pedophilia is a psycho-sexual health problem...Do you believe pedophiles shouldn't be sent to prison?
If you believe they should (As I hope you do)...Wouldn't you be sending to prison a sick person?
Iván
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Iván, that is a long and complicated contemporary social issue man. Not untill some decades ago the consent age in many western countries was around 10 years of age for women and in most countries in Europe the age of consent is still around that. Again, due to American false morality we are being enforced to create false walls and crimes out of f**king there was nothing to be criminalized against, at least culturally. I do believe sex offendors should be arrested, and attacking a child sexually IS an offence, BUT there is much more to that than just it. If you mean pedophile as someone who sexually assaults young women and men, then I agree with you, the law MUST me enforced. If you mean people that have sexual atraction by children, then the question is much deeper than a yes or no question.
Edited by CCVP - January 16 2011 at 21:55
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:57 |
stonebeard wrote:
timothy leary wrote:
A fun thread to read, love the ones who deny using it but know so much about it
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You are aware the site does not allow promotion of illegal drug use, right? And admitting you do it is basically tacit promotion.
No matter the difference, I do smoke marijuana occasionally. I don't make a big deal about it. No one's winning cool points for it anymore because it's practically normal to smoke pot. Nothing to see here let's get on with our lives.
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Yeah, when we step away from fantasy debate world it really isn't a thing. God I've met 40 year old christian conservatives with kids that have said it should be legalized. And I'm 100% serious about that. No one cares. Politicians are getting in the way of it really.
Edited by JJLehto - January 16 2011 at 21:57
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 21:57 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
What? What are you talking about? Those aren't answers. I don't even know what they mean. Without prohibition there is no black market. Could you attempt to explain. Maybe answer my questions. |
Of course there is, they will sell it cheaper, in any amount you want , to minors without restrictions and with less risks, and if the business goes weak, they will start selling harder drugs in a higher amount. |
Could you please explain to me how there is a black market when there's no prohibition? With prohibition the drugs are sold to minors.
You ignored 90% of my questions.
Ivan wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
How would it be easier for minors to get it? The ease of a minor acquiring pot right now is the same as acquiring a pack of cigarettes. Also, that's absurd. Any cost is good? Resources are limited. If it requires you to divert all resources from law enforcement into drug enforcement to protect minors, you would be allowing murders a free ride. So there is a limit. |
They have to pay much more and take the risk of buying an illegal product. |
Once again just ignoring points.
What you just described is exactly the same as a taxed product with an age restriction (not that I support either of those). So again how would it be easier?
Ivan wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I didn't elect my Congressmen. They don't listen to the public. They don't listen to the law. |
Even if you didn't voted, you have to accept what they decide, if you don't like them, vote for another alternative.
Iván |
I have to accept what a mugger decides too. That's no justification for anything.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:04 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Could you please explain to me how there is a black market when there's no prohibition? With prohibition the drugs are sold to minors. |
When a drug is made legal the amount a person can buy is limited, the place where you can sell it is also limited, so the drug dealers will continue selling the amount you want and where you want, is simple.
You are ignoring my answers
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I didn't elect my Congressmen. They don't listen to the public. They don't listen to the law.
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If you live in a society you have to accept their rules even if you don't like them, and Congressmen are elected by the people.
The mugger example is absurd,
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 16 2011 at 22:16
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:06 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Just in case CCVP...I don't say the consumer should be criminalize, I agree with you there.
The person who sells it and make profit should.
Iván |
Those are mostly from the rulling class, so I don't think that actually worked. If I remember correctly, a research was made some time ago with the US congressmen and the members of the UK Chamber of Commons and many of those guys had cloathings with as much coke as an user's cloathing would have. Bottomline is, I don't think they would actually make laws that will cause in their arrest. if it was legal, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:06 |
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Ivan, please learn how to do the quotes man.
You never answered me, do you make any personal choices or do you base your actions on whether or not it's legal?
Because that is certainly what it sounds like.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:07 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Could you please explain to me how there is a black market when there's no prohibition? With prohibition the drugs are sold to minors. |
When a drug is made legal the amount a person can buy is limited, the place where you can sell it is also limited, so the drug dealers will continue selling the amount you want and where you want, is simple.
You are ignoring my answers |
Not really. Since I asked about 25 questions and you semi-answered one.
If this is true where is the black market for cigarettes and alcohol? Seems to like not exist? Or at least be several orders of magnitude smaller.
In either case, what you're arguing then is that the black market is indifferent to a prohibition or not (clearly false), so why again in the prohibition necessary?
Ivan wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I have to accept what a mugger decides too. That's no justification for anything.
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If you live in a society you have to accept their rules even if you don't like them, and Congressmen are elected by the people.
The mugger example is absurd,
Iván |
Why? That's an absurd response. The analogy perfectly represents my relationship to Congress.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - January 16 2011 at 22:08
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:09 |
CCVP wrote:
Iván, that is a long and complicated contemporary social issue man. Not untill some decades ago the consent age in many western countries was around 10 years of age for women and in most countries in Europe the age of consent is still around that. Again, due to American false morality we are being enforced to create false walls and crimes out of f**king there was nothing to be criminalized against, at least culturally. |
Less decades ago discrimination was legal, that doesn't make it good
But a 10 years old girl or boy isn't prepared to give a valid consent. But if any country decides that 10 years is legal, well, in that case and in that country having relations with a 10 years old child is not pedophilia.
CCVP wrote:
If you mean people that have sexual atraction by children, then the question is much deeper than a yes or no question.
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Atraction is not a crime, as long as they don't touch a child.
Iván
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:09 |
CCVP wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Just in case CCVP...I don't say the consumer should be criminalize, I agree with you there.
The person who sells it and make profit should.
Iván |
Those are mostly from the rulling class, so I don't think that actually worked.
If I remember correctly, a research was made some time ago with the US congressmen and the members of the UK Chamber of Commons and many of those guys had cloathings with as much coke as an user's cloathing would have. Bottomline is, I don't think they would actually make laws that will cause in their arrest.
if it was legal, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.
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Criminalizing the supply side is even less effective. It removes suppliers from the market, which causes a reduction in supply, leading to a spike in prices, leading to higher profit to dealers. Higher profit for dealers attracts more suppliers to the market.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:13 |
JJLehto wrote:
Ivan, please learn how to do the quotes man.
You never answered me, do you make any personal choices or do you base your actions on whether or not it's legal?
Because that is certainly what it sounds like.
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I will avoid doing something illegal or inmoral, even if I like it..........As simple as that.
I love music, I wish it was for free because I can't buy as many albums as I want to.....But downloading without paying is illegal, so I don't do it.
If it was legal and artists had another way of being paid, I would do it.
Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:14 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
al, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.
Criminalizing the supply side is even less effective. It removes suppliers from the market, which causes a reduction in supply, leading to a spike in prices, leading to higher profit to dealers. Higher profit for dealers attracts more suppliers to the market. |
Then open the doors to anything, morphine, heroine, etc, at the end it's almost impossible to stop all of them.
Iván
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:14 |
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That's such a terrible way to live your life.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:15 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Ivan, please learn how to do the quotes man.
You never answered me, do you make any personal choices or do you base your actions on whether or not it's legal?
Because that is certainly what it sounds like.
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I will avoid doing something illegal or inmoral, even if I like it..........As simple as that.
I love music, I wish it was for free because I can't buy as many albums as I want to.....But downloading without paying is illegal, so I don't do it.
If it was legal and artists had another way of being paid, I would do it.
Iván |
OK then. Well, what else can I say? I am impressed. Not saying I agree, but I am impressed. Your dedication to the law/the system is really...something. Especially how you talk about elected officials, like it's so easy. If you don't like it just vote em out and put someone new in!
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:15 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
al, there wouldn't be any problem with them having drug particles on their suits.
Criminalizing the supply side is even less effective. It removes suppliers from the market, which causes a reduction in supply, leading to a spike in prices, leading to higher profit to dealers. Higher profit for dealers attracts more suppliers to the market. |
Then open the doors to anything, morphine, heroine, etc, at the end it's almost impossible to stop all of them.
Iván |
What? How's that a response to what I said?
But yes I support legalization of all those things. Gasp!
The country didn't exactly collapse last time they were legal.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:17 |
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oh lol there was a time an all those drugs were legal.
Oops.
Also, I apologize Ivan I forgot that everyone obeys the law, like yourself.
Remember when the US made alcohol illegal? That went stunningly well.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:18 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
CCVP wrote:
Iván, that is a long and complicated contemporary social issue man. Not untill some decades ago the consent age in many western countries was around 10 years of age for women and in most countries in Europe the age of consent is still around that. Again, due to American false morality we are being enforced to create false walls and crimes out of f**king there was nothing to be criminalized against, at least culturally. |
Less decades ago discrimination was legal, that doesn't make it good
But a 10 years old girl or boy isn't prepared to give a valid consent. But if any country decides that 10 years is legal, well, in that case and in that country having relations with a 10 years old child is not pedophilia.
CCVP wrote:
If you mean people that have sexual atraction by children, then the question is much deeper than a yes or no question.
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Atraction is not a crime, as long as they don't touch a child.
Iván |
Jesus Iván, don't change the subject. Where the hell dicrimination was legal? USA? That's one of the most pollitically backward nation in the western world. In Brazil discrimination has been a crime punishable by improsonment for over 100 years, as I think it has been in most of Latin America.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:18 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
That's such a terrible way to live your life. |
So obeying the law and my moral is a terrible way of living?
Wow.
Iván
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:19 |
JJLehto wrote:
oh lol there was a time an all those drugs were legal.
Oops.
Also, I apologize Ivan I forgot that everyone obeys the law, like yourself.
Remember when the US made alcohol illegal? That went stunningly well.
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Yah. And then cocaine was made illegal in part because it was believed that blacks under the influence of cocaine were impervious to bullets and became filled with the urge to rape white women.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: January 16 2011 at 22:20 |
JJLehto wrote:
oh lol there was a time an all those drugs were legal.
Oops.
Also, I apologize Ivan I forgot that everyone obeys the law, like yourself.
Remember when the US made alcohol illegal? That went stunningly well.
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Surprisingly, the USA was actually enforcing a comunist ideal by making alcohol and other drugs illegal. And they call Obama a marxist. OH MERRICA, U SO CRAZY.
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