| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Vompatti 
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67425
|
 Posted: December 03 2010 at 04:44 |
|
Crossover. The only neo-prog band I care for is Fish-era Marillion.
|
 |
Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:20 |
 someone_else wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.
Iván |
There may be a bit of truth in this, but there are some bands and artists in this genre that should be moved to another Prog genre first (Mike Oldfield, Phideaux and Kayak, to mention a few).
I recently reviewed two albums of an artist who is placed in the Crossover Prog genre: the first of these albums might be classified as Prog Related, the last as Eclectic Prog (imho of course). |
You'll have to pry these artists out of our cold dead hands. 
|
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
|
tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:31 |
Hell its like putting 3-4 boys up against an Army
(Crossover)
|
|
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
|
|
Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:32 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.
Iván |
Almost, but it isn't. While Prog Related has the caveat of being for bands influenced by and influenced on Progressive Rock there will always be room for a subgenre of Progressive Rock for bands that arrived at a style of music that is recognisable as being Progressive Rock without actually being influenced directly by it.
Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.
Moreover, if we go back to the roots of Progressive Rock that formed in the post-Psychedelic era that came after the Summer of Love crumbled to dust there are a core of bands that produce (probably Beatles inspired) Baroque Pop, Art Pop and Progressive Pop that are unique and I would argue impossible to place in any existing "pure Prog" subgenre. These artists would similarly look "wrong" in Prog Related since they are of course The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Barclay James Harvest, ELO, Argent and (perhaps contentiously, but I have argued his case extensively before) Mike Oldfield and Supertramp. Where I believe we have "gone wrong" in Prog Related is in keeping out of Crossover similar Prog Pop bands like Roxy Music & Phil Manzanera (Neo Canterbury x Art Rock), Queen (Neo Symphonic Pomp Rock), 10 c.c. & Godley & Creme (Neo Eclectic) simply because they carry "Glam Rock" baggage.
Edited by Dean - December 03 2010 at 07:24
|
|
What?
|
|
tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:46 |
Funny how those debates can continue forever, everyone (at least most) quite aware that there is no "objective truth", even if you took this down to track level, the debate would go on, How many Peter Gabiel tracks would be
Prog related, Ethnic Prog., Neo Prog, Symp. prog, Crossover Prog, or not prog.
Trying to debate this on a artist level, is even more absurd.
Just let the Admins deside where to put the artist, and then go on with the pool, tread or whatever.
|
|
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
|
|
snobb
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 20 2009
Location: Vilnius,LT,EU
Status: Offline
Points: 3584
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 07:01 |
^ Genres teams decide where to put artists,not Admins on PA...
But pools ... yes, then you can vote
|
|
tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 07:43 |
snobb wrote:
^ Genres teams decide where to put artists,not Admins on PA...
But pools ... yes, then you can vote |
Sorry, Genres teams it is  And i think you are doing fine too. I can find what im looking for.
eeee i allready voted in this one, if that was what you mean. Or maby you just found a typo ?
Edited by tamijo - December 03 2010 at 07:44
|
|
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
|
|
lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13759
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:09 |
|
Love lots of bands in both, so can't really vote.
|
|
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
|
|
Atoms
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 12 2010
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 546
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:29 |
|
Marillion is the only band in Neo-Prog that I enjoy, while Crossover got: Moody Blues, Pavlov's Dog and Supertramp, hell I even think that Kansas is more of a Crossover band than a Symphonic Prog band, so my vote goes for Crossover, no doubt about it.
|
|
sydbarrett2010
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 08 2010
Location: iran
Status: Offline
Points: 595
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:36 |
|
|
|
chrijom
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 683
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:28 |
|
Absolutely love IQ, but I seem to have more cross-over artists in my collection so...
|
|
The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 21795
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:33 |
Vompatti wrote:
Crossover. The only neo-prog band I care for is Fish-era Marillion. |
Pretty much this, there may be a few other than Marillion but crossover is where I've found a ton of my most loved bands.
|
|
|
|
The Monodrone
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Indiana, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4489
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:35 |
LinusW wrote:
Crossover. More interesting and diverse. There is only one neo-prog band I've ever returned to and actually liked - Marillion.
|
|
|
|
|
The Sleepwalker
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 03 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 15141
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:40 |
Crossover, that's where all the good non-prog acts go to.  
|
|
|
|
apps79
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 15 2007
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 1551
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 13:49 |
Flucktrot wrote:
Neo-prog...with a caveat:
When it's bad, it's REALLY bad, although it can be incredible!
|
Couldn't agree more...
|
|
When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace...
listen to www.justincaseradio.com , the first ever Greek Progressive Rock radio
|
|
harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:21 |
Dean wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.
Iván |
Almost, but it isn't. While Prog Related has the caveat of being for bands influenced by and influenced on Progressive Rock there will always be room for a subgenre of Progressive Rock for bands that arrived at a style of music that is recognisable as being Progressive Rock without actually being influenced directly by it.
Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.
Moreover, if we go back to the roots of Progressive Rock that formed in the post-Psychedelic era that came after the Summer of Love crumbled to dust there are a core of bands that produce (probably Beatles inspired) Baroque Pop, Art Pop and Progressive Pop that are unique and I would argue impossible to place in any existing "pure Prog" subgenre. These artists would similarly look "wrong" in Prog Related since they are of course The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Barclay James Harvest, ELO, Argent and (perhaps contentiously, but I have argued his case extensively before) Mike Oldfield and Supertramp. Where I believe we have "gone wrong" in Prog Related is in keeping out of Crossover similar Prog Pop bands like Roxy Music & Phil Manzanera (Neo Canterbury x Art Rock), Queen (Neo Symphonic Pomp Rock), 10 c.c. & Godley & Creme (Neo Eclectic) simply because they carry "Glam Rock" baggage. |
Good post Dean, but people are just upset about NIN, Bjork and Tori Amos, they don't want to debate with you actual discussion points.
Edited by harmonium.ro - December 03 2010 at 14:23
|
|
harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:27 |
|
As for me, I didn't like Neo-Prog when I was a prog-snob, but as now I've moved out of that phase and I'm discovering the 80s, post-punk and new-wave, I'm sure Neo-Prog will sound different to my ears.
For the moment I choose Crossover, there's too much brilliant stuff in there.
|
|
Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:32 |
Seems I dislike crossover prog just as much as the majority here dislikes neo prog. 
Neo prog of course.
|
|
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
|
|
Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:36 |
Dean wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.
Iván |
Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.
|
Not to sidetrack the thread but...are there really neo kraut and neo avant bands in crossover?? (I thought that avant-pop bands or poppy prog folk bands were kept in their respective subgenres...although admittedly don't know much about either)
|
|
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
|
|
Oliverum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 30 2010
Location: Estonia
Status: Offline
Points: 132
|
Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:14 |
|
Both my favourites. But I´ll go for neo this time, because I have high hopes for this genre in the future.
|
|
All the best freaks are here, please stop staring at me. Marillion - Freaks (1988).
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Crossover Prog vs. Neo-Prog
