Crossover Prog vs. Neo-Prog
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73753
Printed Date: January 28 2025 at 11:09
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Topic: Crossover Prog vs. Neo-Prog
Posted By: Anthony H.
Subject: Crossover Prog vs. Neo-Prog
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 17:27
This is the poll where the avant die-hards say "neither." 
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Replies:
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 17:29
| Crossover. More interesting and diverse. There is only one neo-prog band I've ever returned to and actually liked - Marillion. |
Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 17:30
Silly them  |
Anthony H. wrote:Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 17:34
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I don't know if I qualify as an avant die-hard but Avant is definitely my favorite prog sub-genre at the moment. Crossover is up there though too.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 18:47
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The only Neo I have is Marillion, which I like, but I have tons of Crossover.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 19:26
More or less. As against Supertramp, Tori Amos, Radiohead. Steely Dan used to be in Crossover too, which alone would have been reason to vote against neo prog. |
Posted By: Xanatos
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 19:53
| Both suck lol |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 19:57
Probably my two favorite genres next to Prog Related.  ------------- 
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Posted By: LinusW
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 20:18
Crossover is a favourite sub-genre and several of my favourite bands can be found in Prog Related and Proto Prog. That's the reason to why I came to the site in the first place  |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 20:23
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Both. But because the sentiment is so negative about neo prog, I'm voting for that
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: Flucktrot
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 21:43
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Neo-prog...with a caveat: When it's bad, it's REALLY bad, although it can be incredible! ------------- Thank you, God of Rock, for this chance to kick ass |
Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 21:53
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Hmmm, this one's tough.
I'll give it to Neo-Prog though. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 22:08
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I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 00:14
| Neo-Prog, because the cross over zone these days , half of the bands included are not prog at all., so neo by far |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 00:27
Definitely crossover because most of the bands are crossover, but that does not make me like Neo any less so I won't dumb the genre down, some great bands there too ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 01:09
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Pretty much anything > neo prog in my books. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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Posted By: zbida
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 01:48
Don't think so. |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 02:34
Radical truth
The only thing I can add is neo-prog is mostly collection of Genesis clones,boring to death. Ahh,yes, I am a avant-prog fan (as well as some other non-poppish prog rock) |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 02:53
There may be a bit of truth in this, but there are some bands and artists in this genre that should be moved to another Prog genre first (Mike Oldfield, Phideaux and Kayak, to mention a few).
I recently reviewed two albums of an artist who is placed in the Crossover Prog genre: the first of these albums might be classified as Prog Related, the last as Eclectic Prog (imho of course).
I think that, generally spoken, Crossover has more prog content than Prog Related.
Back to topic: no vote - yet. I have to think about it. ------------- 
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Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 04:07
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I can't choose, hands down most difficult poll i've voted on. ....Or haven't voted on ------------- 
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 04:44
| Crossover. The only neo-prog band I care for is Fish-era Marillion. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:20
You'll have to pry these artists out of our cold dead hands. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:31
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Hell its like putting 3-4 boys up against an Army (Crossover)
------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:32
Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.
Moreover, if we go back to the roots of Progressive Rock that formed in the post-Psychedelic era that came after the Summer of Love crumbled to dust there are a core of bands that produce (probably Beatles inspired) Baroque Pop, Art Pop and Progressive Pop that are unique and I would argue impossible to place in any existing "pure Prog" subgenre. These artists would similarly look "wrong" in Prog Related since they are of course The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Barclay James Harvest, ELO, Argent and (perhaps contentiously, but I have argued his case extensively before) Mike Oldfield and Supertramp. Where I believe we have "gone wrong" in Prog Related is in keeping out of Crossover similar Prog Pop bands like Roxy Music & Phil Manzanera (Neo Canterbury x Art Rock), Queen (Neo Symphonic Pomp Rock), 10 c.c. & Godley & Creme (Neo Eclectic) simply because they carry "Glam Rock" baggage. ------------- What? |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:46
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Funny how those debates can continue forever, everyone (at least most) quite aware that there is no "objective truth", even if you took this down to track level, the debate would go on, How many Peter Gabiel tracks would be
Prog related, Ethnic Prog., Neo Prog, Symp. prog, Crossover Prog, or not prog.
Trying to debate this on a artist level, is even more absurd.
Just let the Admins deside where to put the artist, and then go on with the pool, tread or whatever. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 07:01
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^ Genres teams decide where to put artists,not Admins on PA...
But pools ... yes, then you can vote
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Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 07:43
Sorry, Genres teams it is
 And i think you are doing fine too. I can find what im looking for.
eeee i allready voted in this one, if that was what you mean. Or maby you just found a typo ? ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:09
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Love lots of bands in both, so can't really vote.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Atoms
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:29
| Marillion is the only band in Neo-Prog that I enjoy, while Crossover got: Moody Blues, Pavlov's Dog and Supertramp, hell I even think that Kansas is more of a Crossover band than a Symphonic Prog band, so my vote goes for Crossover, no doubt about it. |
Posted By: sydbarrett2010
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:36
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neither |
Posted By: chrijom
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:28
| Absolutely love IQ, but I seem to have more cross-over artists in my collection so... |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:33
Pretty much this, there may be a few other than Marillion but crossover is where I've found a ton of my most loved bands. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:35
-------------  
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Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:40
Crossover, that's where all the good non-prog acts go to.  ------------- 
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Posted By: apps79
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 13:49
------------- When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace... listen to www.justincaseradio.com , the first ever Greek Progressive Rock radio |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:21
Good post Dean, but people are just upset about NIN, Bjork and Tori Amos, they don't want to debate with you actual discussion points. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:27
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As for me, I didn't like Neo-Prog when I was a prog-snob, but as now I've moved out of that phase and I'm discovering the 80s, post-punk and new-wave, I'm sure Neo-Prog will sound different to my ears. For the moment I choose Crossover, there's too much brilliant stuff in there. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:32
Seems I dislike crossover prog just as much as the majority here dislikes neo prog. 
Neo prog of course. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:36
Not to sidetrack the thread but...are there really neo kraut and neo avant bands in crossover?? (I thought that avant-pop bands or poppy prog folk bands were kept in their respective subgenres...although admittedly don't know much about either) ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Oliverum
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:14
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Both my favourites. But I´ll go for neo this time, because I have high hopes for this genre in the future.
------------- All the best freaks are here, please stop staring at me. Marillion - Freaks (1988). |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 19:32
]
I would never attempt to write a sub genre definition/description for a sub genre I don't like. I suspect someone may be a little bitter at having his definition of a particular sub changed. But frankly the previous definition of Prog Related pretty much excluded all the artists that were already included. And if you don't like Crossover, Prog Related, or any other sub, don't get mad, just move on. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 19:37
Maybe because the other points don't deserve ridicule, unlike the inclusion of those artists on this site. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:02
Lets start from the beginning:
Just to end, I don't get mad, simply I give my opinion to which I'm entitled, and still believe that:
If you like my opinion, great, if you don't it's OK by me, but nobody can ask me not to give my opinions. Iván . -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:36
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Actually, I've always enjoyed reading your opinions and reviews whether or not I agree with them.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:59
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It's mutual, you always make me smile from the moment I see your avatar. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:05
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Yeah Ivan is always respectful regardless of the subject matter. I would be in the front line with him anyday. Traditionilist views with a grown up attitude. Crossover rules P/R all the way IMO..... P/R could potentially be removed, but I am not for that either,I respect the genre tag and the efforts people have put in too much.... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:11
Get a room, you two -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 21:48
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This is not the thread for it, but I agree with Ivan on two points. Having the distinction between Crossover and PR would make some sense if Kate Bush, Metallica or Muse are shifted to prog genre baskets. As it stands, the difference is rather semantic. Post-metal should ideally be lumped with post rock and tech-extreme and prog metal should be just one prog metal genre. But, knowing metalheads, we should be grateful there aren't a hundred prog metal genres already here like blackened prog metal, slam prog metal, power prog metal, whatever, just jk. I think RPI bands too could be classified into appropriate genres like symph/eclectic, but if it's broken up, then there will be suggestions that Krautrock too is just a regional classification and reclassifying bands like Can or Faust could get messy.
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 00:24
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Not even trying to be funny... Neither  So no vote for me |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 01:26
| Crossover easily. |
Posted By: Anderson III
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 05:30
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Radiohead, Mike Oldfield, Björk, Talk Talk... We have a winner!
------------- "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and cannot remain silent" - Victor Hugo |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 05:55
I can't name specific bands because they are even more obscure and unmemorable than "pure" ZART bands, but during my three year tenure doing Xover evaluations the ZART team passed a number of bands over to us for evaluation that they thought too poppy for Avant/RIO. Ones that do stand out are Deerhoof and Chrome Hoof (unrelated), with the latter even showing Zeuhl influences.
Neo Krautrock of course doesn't really exist, there was a minor renaissance in Krautrock during the turn of the century, but Krautrock influenced bands started appearing in the late 70s with the eclectic Art Pop bands like Japan and Ultravox! who adopted the austere synth-driven style of the more electronic Krautrock artists and that influence permeated many Post-punk bands at the time. It could be argued that Radiohead and Talk Talk are of that ilk. ------------- What? |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 06:24
| Well, I love some of the neo-prog albums. Arena is my first progressive rock band. Crossover is to poppy for me, but Kayak is a great example of a crossover band I really like (though their older albums are symphonic prog in my opinion). |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 06:28
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 06:44
------------- What? |
Posted By: Rune2000
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 06:58
This. Edit:
Especially not The Dear Hunter! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 07:09
It all boils down to whether or not you are big tenter or a small tenter. I prefer the big tent. I love the music of those most accepted as prog, but I'm just not particularly restrictive. Some things are obviously not, some things are borderline, some artist additions will be controversial. But in the end, everything is subject to debate. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 08:08
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next: Symphonic prog vs Raga/indi prog -------------  
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 10:06
The merits or otherwise of a band is an entirely different debate from that of whether it is prog so whether someone likes Tori Amos does not and should not have anything to do with whether she should be considered prog.
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Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 10:17
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Posted By: Neue regel
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 10:59
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Definitely Neo-prog. Marillion is better than every crossover prog band ever existed. Not to add Arena, Pallas, Pendragon and few more greats ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Neue_regel_" rel="nofollow - Neue Regel's Last.Fm 
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 14:23
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Neo prog: I like the big names of British neo prog of the 1980's and early 1990's, basically. Marillion, IQ, Pallas, Twelfth Night, Pendragon, and some more bands with Clive Nolan in it like Shadowland and Casino.
Cross over: I really have to see which artists are in it. Seeing the most popular albums, I only like Mike Oldfield a lot. I have to scroll down to the end, to the list of artists in alfabetic order to see who's in it. Well, what do artists likeTony Banks, Barclay James Harvest and Björk have in common? The correct answer is: they are all filed under "B". Okay, they're all cross over prog, according to the site. I like them all, another thing that they have in common. Just hard to see them as in one style, and to let them compete with the neo bands, which seem to have much more in common. Hard to give an answer.
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 15:03
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I do not consider crossover a separate sub-genre. It looks like a pool where you throw bands in which you can not categorise under other genres: for example, I can not see how Nine Inch Nails, Haggard, Mike Oldfield and Presto Ballet can belong in the same sub-genre. I do enjoy quite a lot of bands under neo and this gets my vote (particularly Arena) |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 16:19
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I think a lot of the artists accepted into crossover and prog related and I suppose neoprog could should be transferred into other subs. Don't hold your breath though because you might turn blue.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 17:46
... but that's all they have in common. I even do not like them all. Also to see Supertramp and Björk in one sub genre makes me cringe. 
Exactly my thoughts. As for the poll: I think I'll have a drink over it...  |
Posted By: treebeard
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 02:30
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No tthat I am too familiar with what is classified as Neo prog but fo rme if this includes bands such as the Flower Kings, or Frost, or Porcupine Tree or The Tangent or No Man or Spocks Beard or Beardfish or Phideaux then I am all for Neoprog....
oh yes and Marillion, but only just..........
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 02:32
^.....treebeard, did you nod off again? ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: ferush
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 15:25
| Neo-Prog |
Posted By: mohaveman
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 15:29
| Crossover. Little Neo has ever interested me, yet. |
Posted By: claugroi
Date Posted: December 08 2010 at 20:06
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With Supertramp, The Moody Blues, Alan Parsons Project, Mike Oldfield and Peter Gabriel, among others, I have to go with Crossover Prog. ------------- Symphonic Prog Master |
Posted By: rod65
Date Posted: December 09 2010 at 16:12
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Neo-Prog for me. Though I have loved Hodgson-era Supertramp for since childhood and will listen to anything Touchstone releases, Neo-Prog is the genre that has meant the most to me over recent years. It is Neo-Prog, in fact, that drew me back onto the exploration of progressive rock as a whole, after years and years of listening to the classics and not knowing that prog was even still being made. The genre as a whole has my gratitude for that. |