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Topic ClosedCrossover Prog vs. Neo-Prog

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Poll Question: Which of these sub-genres do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
51 [68.00%]
24 [32.00%]
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Vompatti View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 04:44
Crossover. The only neo-prog band I care for is Fish-era Marillion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:20
Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván
 
There may be a bit of truth in this, but there are some bands and artists in this genre that should be moved to another Prog genre first (Mike Oldfield, Phideaux and Kayak, to mention a few).
I recently reviewed two albums of an artist who is placed in the Crossover Prog genre: the first of these albums might be classified as Prog Related, the last as Eclectic Prog (imho of course).

You'll have to pry these artists out of our cold dead hands.LOL
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:31

Hell its like putting 3-4 boys up against an Army

(Crossover)
 
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:32
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván
Almost, but it isn't. While Prog Related has the caveat of being for bands influenced by and influenced on Progressive Rock there will always be room for a subgenre of Progressive Rock for bands that arrived at a style of music that is recognisable as being Progressive Rock without actually being influenced directly by it.
 
Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.
 
Moreover, if we go back to the roots of Progressive Rock that formed in the post-Psychedelic era that came after the Summer of Love crumbled to dust there are a core of bands that produce (probably Beatles inspired) Baroque Pop, Art Pop and Progressive Pop that are unique and I would argue impossible to place in any existing "pure Prog" subgenre. These artists would similarly look "wrong" in Prog Related since they are of course The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Barclay James Harvest, ELO, Argent and (perhaps contentiously, but I have argued his case extensively before) Mike Oldfield and Supertramp. Where I believe we have "gone wrong" in Prog Related is in keeping out of Crossover similar Prog Pop bands like Roxy Music & Phil Manzanera (Neo Canterbury x Art Rock), Queen (Neo Symphonic Pomp Rock), 10 c.c. & Godley & Creme (Neo Eclectic) simply because they carry "Glam Rock" baggage.


Edited by Dean - December 03 2010 at 07:24
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 06:46
Funny how those debates can continue forever, everyone (at least most) quite aware that there is no "objective truth", even if you took this down to track level, the debate would go on, How many Peter Gabiel tracks would be
Prog related, Ethnic Prog., Neo Prog, Symp. prog, Crossover Prog, or not prog.
Trying to debate this on a artist level, is even more absurd.
 
Just let the Admins deside where to put the artist, and then go on with the pool, tread or whatever.  
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 07:01
^ Genres teams decide where to put artists,not Admins on PA...


But pools ... yes, then you can vote
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 07:43
Originally posted by snobb snobb wrote:

^ Genres teams decide where to put artists,not Admins on PA...


But pools ... yes, then you can vote
 
 
Sorry, Genres teams it is Wink
And i think you are doing fine too. I can find what im looking for.
 
eeee i allready voted in this one, if that was what you mean. Or maby you just found a typo ?


Edited by tamijo - December 03 2010 at 07:44
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:09
Love lots of bands in both, so can't really vote.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:29
Marillion is the only band in Neo-Prog that I enjoy, while Crossover got: Moody Blues, Pavlov's Dog and Supertramp, hell I even think that Kansas is more of a Crossover band than a Symphonic Prog band, so my vote goes for Crossover, no doubt about it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 10:36

neither

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:28
Absolutely love IQ, but I seem to have more cross-over artists in my collection so...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:33
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Crossover. The only neo-prog band I care for is Fish-era Marillion.
 
Pretty much this, there may be a few other than Marillion but crossover is where I've found a ton of my most loved bands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:35
Originally posted by LinusW LinusW wrote:

Crossover. More interesting and diverse. There is only one neo-prog band I've ever returned to and actually liked - Marillion. 
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 11:40
Crossover, that's where all the good non-prog acts go to. WinkTongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 13:49
Originally posted by Flucktrot Flucktrot wrote:

Neo-prog...with a caveat:

When it's bad, it's REALLY bad, although it can be incredible!
Couldn't agree more...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:21
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván
Almost, but it isn't. While Prog Related has the caveat of being for bands influenced by and influenced on Progressive Rock there will always be room for a subgenre of Progressive Rock for bands that arrived at a style of music that is recognisable as being Progressive Rock without actually being influenced directly by it.
 
Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.
 
Moreover, if we go back to the roots of Progressive Rock that formed in the post-Psychedelic era that came after the Summer of Love crumbled to dust there are a core of bands that produce (probably Beatles inspired) Baroque Pop, Art Pop and Progressive Pop that are unique and I would argue impossible to place in any existing "pure Prog" subgenre. These artists would similarly look "wrong" in Prog Related since they are of course The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Barclay James Harvest, ELO, Argent and (perhaps contentiously, but I have argued his case extensively before) Mike Oldfield and Supertramp. Where I believe we have "gone wrong" in Prog Related is in keeping out of Crossover similar Prog Pop bands like Roxy Music & Phil Manzanera (Neo Canterbury x Art Rock), Queen (Neo Symphonic Pomp Rock), 10 c.c. & Godley & Creme (Neo Eclectic) simply because they carry "Glam Rock" baggage.


Good post Dean, but people are just upset about NIN, Bjork and Tori Amos, they don't want to debate with you actual discussion points.


Edited by harmonium.ro - December 03 2010 at 14:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:27
As for me, I didn't like Neo-Prog when I was a prog-snob, but as now I've moved out of that phase and I'm discovering the 80s, post-punk and new-wave, I'm sure Neo-Prog will sound different to my ears.

For the moment I choose Crossover, there's too much brilliant stuff in there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:32
Seems I dislike crossover prog just as much as the majority here dislikes neo prog. LOL
 
Neo prog of course.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 14:36
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

I believe Crossover shouldn't exist, it is almost another Prog Related.

Iván
 
Neo Prog has its origins firmly within Symphonic Prog - as a style of Prog it is Symphonic Prog with 80s (post-punk) ideology, 80s production and 80s characteristical styling of shorter "poppier" songs and less of the unrestrained instrumental excesses of the 70s symphonic, space-rock and head-music bands - applying those ideals and characteristics to every other "pure Prog" subgenre within the Prog canon we would arrive at a myriad of subsubgenres such as Neo Kraut, Neo Avant, Neo Prog Folk, Neo Electronic, Neo Space/Psyche ... or we can lump them all together within one all encompassing subgenre and call it Crossover.
 
 
 
Not to sidetrack the thread but...are there really neo kraut and neo avant bands in crossover?? (I thought that avant-pop bands or poppy prog folk bands were kept in their respective subgenres...although admittedly don't know much about either)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:14
Both my favourites. But I´ll go for neo this time, because I have high hopes for this genre in the future.
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