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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Posted: October 28 2010 at 07:20
I don't care what he says,people can change their opinions, even Phil is allowed too. I just feel so sorry for the guy having to strap his sticks to his hands so he can play. No musician deserves this fate.
He has often stated in the past that punk rockers would damn the early music of Genesis rambling on about how bands of this nature are a bunch of old farts. He claimed that he was personally agreeable when they made their references to Pink Floyd but felt deeply about the fact that Genesis had something special to offer in those days. Phil Collins would sometimes himself make negative and cruel thrusts towards the early prog days of Genesis. Much in the way that Rutherford did. "Oh! we couldn't wait until it was over" or "Thank God those days are gone". It sounds like a love/hate relationship between Collins and prog as when people cut on the early Genesis, he starts defending it! He probably hated the turmoil and struggle in the business during those prog days as it was much easier to rack in astronomical amounts of profit with the 80's Genesis.
I feel sorry for him if he is tormented over the reality of what he was in the Brand X and early Genesis days when compared to his current media activity over the last few decades. Singing or writing a song for the TARZAN movie was the old adult musician singer songwriter approach to children's workshops. It's almost as if you could imagine him on Sesame Street. It's healthy do do this but, not if deep down inside you are avoiding your past with an attitude. His participation in a Buddy Rich tribute was a great idea for him to stretch out as a player again. He might miss the extreme progressiveness of his career in the sense that his pop indulgence was to the opposite extreme. Now he is getting older and he is looking back you see? However I did not understand the attitude he presented in Progression Magazine in 2004 when he was interviewed by Nick Tate. He responded at one point by saying Well, the question is how does Peter Gabriel feel about performing "Invisible Touch"? In otherwords, don't worry about how I, Tony and Mike feel about returning to our prog roots because we have no intentions of bending. They must have had a kind of bond in the business sense and their past issues with the early Genesis were still bitter to a great degree. That was the impression I got. But, he is not all one sided and somewhere inside he may feel some kind of regret for turning his back on it. That vibe seems to surface when he defends the early days. Perhaps he is struggling with that reality?
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
Posted: October 28 2010 at 21:17
^^^^^
I think that is probably closer to the truth. They did carry on with prog for two years after Gabriel left and Collins has some songwriting credits on the two albums with Hackett (before ATTWT) so he was in all probability attached to the music they were making at the time but found it more and more difficult to mount the effort to make it, faced with dwindling returns for prog as such. I have also read Rutherford saying in the notorious Annotated Lamb Lies...article that they were in great touch at the time of making that album and the music just flowed. Banks and Rutherford regard Lamb as a commercial failure, so it is possible that the sum total of the efforts they put into it, Gabriel's departure, lack of commercial success and getting branded as pretentious affected them. In my personal experience too, Genesis is the hardest of the big five bands to get people from outside prog circles to understand because they are only too inclined to dismiss Genesis's prog albums as precious, sissy pop (the irony!) and don't really perceive its brilliance, not right away at any rate. People generally regard prog as weird or strange music and Genesis seem to dampen those misplaced expectations.
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Posted: October 29 2010 at 04:17
sigod wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
sigod wrote:
[QUOTE=Blacksword] I guess he just prefers performing Motown music. I quite like Motown, but when Collins re-works those old classics, it just doesn't work for me at all. They are pale and weak immitations of how that music should be performed and produced.
Good to see you on here again Simon. Hope all is well sir.
Fine and dandy mate. Still fighting the good fight I see.
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
Posted: October 29 2010 at 06:36
Indeed, Fripp never sold his soul to soul...
Collins deserves a 'ribbing' for making a catalogue of diabolical tacky fake motown music in the 80's, but generally I have no ill feeling towards him. He's among my favourite prog musicians, and was a key member of my all time favourite prog band. I cope with his solo efforts by not listening to it.
I've said it before, but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
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Points: 14693
Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:07
Blacksword wrote:
but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
Absolutely - ask Steve Wilson why he never plays 'The Sky Moves Sideways' or 'Radioactive Toy' anymore (I'd stand back when you ask though ); musicians change...
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:14
Jim Garten wrote:
Blacksword wrote:
but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
Absolutely - ask Steve Wilson why he never plays 'The Sky Moves Sideways' or 'Radioactive Toy' anymore (I'd stand back when you ask though ); musicians change...
Indeed, and Wilsons take on the whole 'prog' tag seems to have mellowed with time too. But, then I bet many prog musicians go through a naieve phase of believing their music is completely beyond any classification.
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:41
Can't watch vid clips at work.. I'll check out when I get home.
Face Value is listenable, but No Jacket Required is best enjoyed in a concrete bunker, roughly 70 miles from ground zero where some flop haired 80's yuppie is playing it.
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: October 29 2010 at 07:45
I actually enjoy Face Value, Its very good. But to no fault of Phil's I do not really share his musical taste after this. I think what he did, he did very well though. I totally respect him for following his path. I sometimes think he said some stupid things.....but don't we all!
is it true all this stuff you guys are writing about Phill? I am a pretty huge Genesis fan since I was 14 Years. I had never read numerous and I even have few Genesis Documentary on videos Have a Genesis boigraphy and I still haven''t ready anything Phil said bashing early Genesis prog albums. Totally the opossite.
can you guys post the link of these interviews?
ohh the only think I remember he said was that they were tired of playing long songs and old songs. That The band needed to change their direction. that all!
Most of this interviews are very old and no longer available, for example the first Genesis and Phil Collins sites has been transformed and several interviews vanished.
Only found one quotes:
You put Genesis over there in a corner with Yes, ELP, Moody Blues and the Floyd (Pink Floyd) because that`s the period we happened to come up in. I don`t like any of those groups - so it angers me and frustrates me when we get compared to them.
I believe you will find several good opinions about Yes after 2000.
But if you want to listen some of his most acid perception about Genesis and Prog, you can get "GENESIS A HISTORY" DVD...There he speaks a lot of harsh things about Prog and old Genesis.
Iván
BTW: I can correct myself when I found something I was wrong, seems that Phil always had a soft spot for Supper's Ready and specially for Apocalypse in 9/8, but he has said some very hard things.
but his perspective on the band he was in is bound to change with age. It's a natural thing for a musician to go through.
Absolutely - ask Steve Wilson why he never plays 'The Sky Moves Sideways' or 'Radioactive Toy' anymore (I'd stand back when you ask though ); musicians change...
Indeed, and Wilsons take on the whole 'prog' tag seems to have mellowed with time too. But, then I bet many prog musicians go through a naieve phase of believing their music is completely beyond any classification.
I agree 100% on that. I remember in the early 90's how much Steve hated when Pt was called a "prog band" look at him embracing the whole genre and maybe adoring it.
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
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Points: 4338
Posted: October 29 2010 at 10:59
That was the first tour that I saw the band 1976 in a little used outdoor theater called the Starlight Amphitheater in the hills of Burbank ,California. I will always love that version because it is one of two times I was fortunate to hear it live (the second and last being the next year) Of course Phil was no villain then in fact he was kind of a Saviour keeping the group together.
Hmm lets see that Phil gets called out for his comments over and over in the late 70's and early 80's and yet he was the one that sat in with the Musical Box playing the Musical Box a few years ago and certainly was no road block to, in fact encouraged a full reunion tour 3-4 years ago. It is pretty obvious he does not hate the music of his youth now. Whether that extends to ELP, Yes, Pink Floyd etc is irrelevant.
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
Posted: October 29 2010 at 11:08
Jim Garten wrote:
Back to PC's original quote though - this is a classic example of why Collins should retain respect:
Oh yes, I have seen both clips and love the performances.
The mans contribution to prog rock generally is fantastic. Lets not forget Brand X, his work with Gabriel, Brian Eno, and on the first Hackett solo album. I think the the collins of the 80's was an imposter...
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Phil Collins says something I didn't expect
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sigod wrote:
I'll check out when I get home.
You put Genesis over there in a corner with Yes, ELP, Moody Blues and the Floyd (Pink Floyd) because that`s the period we happened to come up in. I don`t like any of those groups - so it angers me and frustrates me when we get compared to them.
wow!!!
